The Official PS4 Thread

[Pheran]

I was kinda alluding that some of the titles appear to be a time/budget issue. Like why is TR or Metal Gear 60fps and Second Son not? Nothing technically superior software wise that I'm aware of in Second son so I suspect it's a developer thing ATM. So the PS4 was just powerful enough that it was effortless to have it perform better BUT once developers sort out MS's memory allocation differences, use some graphic engines that are designed with these hardware in mind and optimize them I really think it will end up being a non issue and most every game will likely be 1080p/60fps without having to devote more time and money into it.

I very much doubt this. No amount of memory management is going to compensate for one third less compute units.

 

[Rakehellion]

However the slight hardware differences may still yield PS4 in favor when it comes to certain AAA exclusive titles but no doubt in my mind that multi plats will be identical within the next couple of years onwards.

There has never been a console generation where multi-platform titles were identical across systems. You're dreaming.

 

[Staples]

Thanks for that chart. I still think the bone is the more interesting system but I won't be buying one till they at least match the price of the ps4. With all the bad press, their damage control department will see to it that the price is dropped by years end.

 

[zerocool84]

I very much doubt this. No amount of memory management is going to compensate for one third less compute units.

Plus the fact that the ESRAM makes it more difficult than the PS4.

 

[Wingznut]

Seems like just seven years ago, we were talking about how the PS3 was more difficult to program for than the 360. That turned out to be a non-issue in the long run.

HeXen is right... Graphics comparisons between the two current gen consoles will be irrelevant soon enough. If it isn't really already.

 

[Rakehellion]

Just thought I'd post this for general info. Shows resolution and framerate comparisons. There actually are quite a few 60fps/1080p...or close enough games despite all the criticisms mentioning otherwise. Seems the 30fps games must be developer time/budget issue considering the type of game some are in comparison to the 60fps titles.

Pretty much everything on the Xbone is 720p. It's like the Xbox 360 all over again. Personally, I don't see why they wouldn't tune the Xbox version for 1080p and use the extra processor cyles on more detailed shaders for the PS4.

 

[jpiniero]

Pretty much everything on the Xbone is 720p. It's like the Xbox 360 all over again. Personally, I don't see why they wouldn't tune the Xbox version for 1080p and use the extra processor cyles on more detailed shaders for the PS4.

It's got to be easier to show the same effects on both consoles and just cut the resolution on the One.

 

[Bill Brasky]

Sorry to just drop by, but I thought you all might enjoy a laugh this morning. I love the internet.

 

[Wingznut]

It's a GPU Trojan Horse!

 

[cmdrdredd]

Seems like just seven years ago, we were talking about how the PS3 was more difficult to program for than the 360. That turned out to be a non-issue in the long run.

HeXen is right... Graphics comparisons between the two current gen consoles will be irrelevant soon enough. If it isn't really already.

It'll never be irrelevant. That's why places like digital foundry exist and do the comparisons. So you can choose the best version of a game.

Sorry to just drop by, but I thought you all might enjoy a laugh this morning. I love the internet.

So now it's "unlock hidden GPU."? That's the most ridiculous thing anyone has come up with to date. Even if it can use DX12, it won't suddenly unlock extra power. I can't believe some people actually believe the things they say.

 

[Wingznut]

It'll never be irrelevant.

History shows otherwise. When the PS3 launched, there were serious concerns about how the games didn't look as good as the 360. Not long thereafter, developers figured stuff out, and they performed equally.

In 2012, I don't think very many people chose which system to purchase a multiplatform game, based on graphics. There were other much more significant factors.

And honestly, I don't think many people choose a PS4 over a Xbox One based on graphics. I would bet that the overwhelming majority of console owners don't even know about the discrepancies. Obviously, the PS4 is outselling the Xbox One, but it's mostly because of other factors... Price, games, ecosystem (i.e. friends), bad marketing by MS.

 

[Wingznut]

So now it's "unlock hidden GPU."? That's the most ridiculous thing anyone has come up with to date.

Umm... Hello? You can see it in the picture, clear as day! There's even an arrow, pointing it out!

 

[cmdrdredd]

History shows otherwise. When the PS3 launched, there were serious concerns about how the games didn't look as good as the 360. Not long thereafter, developers figured stuff out, and they performed equally.

In 2012, I don't think very many people chose which system to purchase a multiplatform game, based on graphics. There were other much more significant factors.

And honestly, I don't think many people choose a PS4 over a Xbox One based on graphics. I would bet that the overwhelming majority of console owners don't even know about the discrepancies. Obviously, the PS4 is outselling the Xbox One, but it's mostly because of other factors... Price, games, ecosystem (i.e. friends), bad marketing by MS.

People keep saying console owners don't know yet every thread with multiplatform games is talking about 1080p. Not to mention any comparisons done by various sites and magazines.

These comparisons always continued on the PS3 and 360 and will continue with the PS4 and XB1. This it is never an irrelevant conversation when the games are never identical. They just aren't.

You might not care, someone else might not care...I might care and another person might care because if they have both consoles they, like myself, might want to get the best version of a game. Given the choice between two consoles with the same title, I want all the info I can get on performance, resolution, LOD, draw distance etc.

 

[HeXen]

Plus the fact that the ESRAM makes it more difficult than the PS4.

Like the PS3 wasn't difficult? Didn't anyone notice what devs were able to achieve out of last gen despite the specs? Many PS3 and 360 titles are very near identical and it's foolish to think it won't happen again. Devs can achieve a lot more than it's given credit, everyone here just talks specs and say impossible when it's clearly not.

From Crytek:

German developer Crytek has DirectX 11 graphics running on Crysis 3 on PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360

It is very, very difficult, but it is possible. It just requires a lot of effort. Some of the stuff these guys are making work on consoles now is absolutely amazing. It's render features that shouldn't theoretically work on consoles, but they've managed to construct code that can emulate a similar thing from a… hack and slash sounds wrong, but they don't have the same streamlined pipeline you would have with a DX11 structure, but they can get to a similar result just by experimenting and using tips and tricks."

.

 

[Wingznut]

People keep saying console owners don't know yet every thread with multiplatform games is talking about 1080p.

Yeah but the vast majority of consumers don't read tech message boards. We are a niche.

These comparisons always continued on the PS3 and 360 and will continue with the PS4 and XB1. This it is never an irrelevant conversation when the games are never identical. They just aren't.

You might not care, someone else might not care...I might care and another person might care because if they have both consoles they, like myself, might want to get the best version of a game. Given the choice between two consoles with the same title, I want all the info I can get on performance, resolution, LOD, draw distance etc.

Agreed that the games are "never identical." But my argument is that there are many other factors that go into which version of a multiplatform game to buy (for those who have both systems, which again, is a minority.) And because of those other factors, whichever has the better graphics, is not always the "best version" for everyone.

I had both systems (now just an Xbox One, and I'm sure I'll get another PS4 when there are games that I want to play on it), and when I purchased BF4, I had already seen the comparison screenshots and YouTube videos. But that was irrelevant when I chose the Xbox version.

 

[Wingznut]

Plus the fact that the ESRAM makes it more difficult than the PS4.

Like the PS3 wasn't difficult? Didn't anyone notice what devs were able to achieve out of last gen despite the specs? Many PS3 and 360 titles are very near identical and it's foolish to think it won't happen again. Devs can achieve a lot more than it's given credit, everyone here just talks specs and say impossible when it's clearly not.

MS recently released a new SDK for developers to help with the eSRAM issues. (Similar to what Sony did with the issues developers had with the PS3...) Bethesda has said this SDK was a factor in getting 1080p/60fps out of the upcoming Wolfenstein game.

And even though that pic up above (of the "hidden" gpu circuits) is absolutely ludicrous, DX12 will have a real effect on Xbox One graphics.

Anyone who finds these things surprising, just isn't paying attention to history.

 

[Arkaign]

XB1 will run a noticeable 2nd place for the entire generation in cross platform games, there's no two ways about that. Having dramatically slower memory and a much weaker GPU can't be fixed.

However, that doesn't mean anything to most gamers in my mind in an immediate fashion.

It's trouble in that this gen IS going to see price cuts. Remember how people doubted me when I said this gen was going to be brutal, and might even see price cuts in the first year? I was practically called an idiot for that, in fact I think I WAS right here in this forum. And what do we see? Price cuts inside 4 MONTHS.

The problem gets worse long-term actually because of that. As the price cuts happen, and great exclusives pile up on both systems, many gamers WILL get both. Microsoft's problem is that owners of both will have precious few reasons to buy XB1 versions of multiplats.

You can search for marketing speak, about how 'similar results' or '1080p' was achieved on the XB1 for this title or that title, but with the power difference it will always mean a combination of these factors :

(1)- The title was undemanding to begin with.
(2)- Visual effects/details are reduced to make the target framerate.
(3)- Upscaling is used in order to maintain framerate and asset details.

It's plain as day. Hell, remember E3, when people were 'playing' Forza? They even trotted out that same thing to Jimmy Fallon's show. In actual fact, it wasn't an XB1 at all that the game was on, they were playing it on a jacked-up PC with 'XB1 target' specs. The game took a massive nosedive in details to hit the 1080p/60 target, from the crowds to the buildings, to AA and particle effects.

It's all stupid because the XB1 isn't a bad game console. Playing the same game with 80% of the visual quality of the competition doesn't make it a different game. But that's the way it's going to be for the entire generation. We all heard the same BS during the run-up to release :

"Oh, game devs will code to the lowest common denominator, and the games will look the same".

Yeah I knew that was complete and obvious total BS to begin with, but the fanboys piled on with that. Now watch the rest of the gen play out with more garbage PR spin : 'oh, they will learn how to do this or that with the system, and that will make a difference'. Nope. The fundamental problem is that the hardware is fundamentally identical, but weaker. As devs learn how to work even better with GCN/x86, quality will go up on both platforms. DX12 won't make any meaningful difference either, at a raw level there is only so much that can be moved with a DDR3-fed GPU with a bunch of it's processing capacity chopped off.

The fact is that Microsoft factored the BOM costs to include Kinect, and made the decision to neuter the GPU and memory to make that happen.

All of these facts SHOULDN'T be the only things discussed though. There are, and will be many great titles on the XB1. But Microsoft better triple-time the exclusives, because that's where they're going to live and die.

 

[Arkaign]

In point of fact, the recent UK price cuts didn't even go far enough to make things move at retail, so retailers are going beyond them :

http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/microsoft-xbox-one-500-gb-games-console-with-fifa-14-bundle-a67nc

£449.99 with free game to launch

£379.99 now (A $117 price cut).

Watch for US price cuts @ E3 (and some before at US retailers). Demand on Amazon shows that Titanfall won't make much impact at all, the bundles are selling like crap. The game itself is selling very well to the core Xbox fans who already own XB1s, but the per-month console sales are in terrible shape.

Edit : fixed GBP conversion to current exchange rate

 

[Arkaign]

Ugh : http://www.gamespot.com/articles/mi...181/?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=pulsenews

Screw Microsoft. I thought they learned from their hubris from the terrible XB1 reveal and 2013 experience. I guess not.

 

[Rage187]

Ugh : http://www.gamespot.com/articles/mi...181/?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=pulsenews

Screw Microsoft. I thought they learned from their hubris from the terrible XB1 reveal and 2013 experience. I guess not.

I saw this coming from a mile away. And don't think they didn't make a deal with the government for unfettered access to the camera in your living room.

 

[raasco]

I saw this coming from a mile away. And don't think they didn't make a deal with the government for unfettered access to the camera in your living room.

That's why I won't be getting a ps4 camera with my system either. Call me crazy, but I don't like giving people access to my living room. Just wait for the "I see you're drinking a coke, these deals might apply to you...."

 

[dguy6789]

I saw this coming from a mile away. And don't think they didn't make a deal with the government for unfettered access to the camera in your living room.

I imagine you have your smartphone and laptop front facing cameras covered with a piece of black tape.

 

[ImpulsE69]

Ugh : http://www.gamespot.com/articles/mi...181/?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=pulsenews

Screw Microsoft. I thought they learned from their hubris from the terrible XB1 reveal and 2013 experience. I guess not.

Sigh...these are the things I hate about the turns technology has taken. It's not about betterment, it's about pandering and data mining masked in the form of entertainment

I know this probably is nothing to get concerned about...I mean browser pages have been doing this for years and I think most of us ignore 99% of them for the most part, but those pages are also free. You are PAYING for xbox live (and adding PS4 network before someone tries to correct me).

But I digress, I am sure this potential move will help skyrocket sales of their systems. Who doesn't want political ads blasted at them while they are playing COD32?

 

[ImpulsE69]

I imagine you have your smartphone and laptop front facing cameras covered with a piece of black tape.

Everyone keeps saying this as if it is some kind of counter...funny thing? I don't buy products with front facing cameras out of sheer lack of interest (or any cameras for that matter), and yes those that do have them (work) get tape. I use cameras as cameras. I know...funny outdated concept that doesn't come with surprises.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Sigh...these are the things I hate about the turns technology has taken. It's not about betterment, it's about pandering and data mining masked in the form of entertainment

I know this probably is nothing to get concerned about...I mean browser pages have been doing this for years and I think most of us ignore 99% of them for the most part, but those pages are also free. You are PAYING for xbox live (and adding PS4 network before someone tries to correct me).

But I digress, I am sure this potential move will help skyrocket sales of their systems. Who doesn't want political ads blasted at them while they are playing COD32?

heh...this is getting ridiculous. I don't mind some ads to keep costs down like on mobile apps where the ads help keep it free as well as certain websites that generate some revenue from ads. That doesn't mean I should have ads when I am paying money for the product already. To me that's just greedy. There is a reason that watching a movie on Netflix doesn't produce ads every 15minutes but Crackle does. I'm paying for Netflix.

The worst part is they will start politicizing gaming and that's crap IMO. Hollywood is full of people who are both rich and well known but open their mouth on certain issues as if we should take their word as gospel and follow them to the end of the earth. I think most people would agree that politics shouldn't permeate movies and gaming except to provide a decent storyline to work with. I don't really think entertainment and politics should mix beyond that because gaming is a way to relax and escape the day to day reality of life for a bit. Throwing politics in gaming kind of ruins the escape.

I wouldn't mind so much if you could turn them off. On a web browser you can use adblock etc and remove all the banner ads and popups. On the Xbox you can't, they are there. There is no opt in or opt out either which I think sucks. Many times there's an option to allow anonymous data collection. This option doesn't exist on the xbox.