The Official Xbox One Thread

[Larnz]

Amen brother, preach on.

To add to it - Yes I've already made the decision not to buy an X1 for a while. If it gets hacked to shreds than I may consider it

That would actually be an awesome strategy for MS imo. If they actually created a exploitable hole in their XBOX One OS that people "find" (leaked by MS to hacker forums) that allowed cracked games etc. the consoles would fly off the shelves. They could then plug the hole with an update after a few months, leaving people with having to buy games going forward.

I mean they would lose a bunch of money in game sales but they would get a bunch more consoles out into peoples hands than they are probably looking at now.

 

[ImpulsE69]

I'm sorry, but MS is hiding shit plain and simple. They are using market speak, and doing a piss poor job of it. People are asking them fair questions to get clarification on their system and they are dodging and spinning because they know they got caught. They thought they could do anything and people would just be saying "take my money". All you have to do is look at the specs, price and then listen to them say "this is a high end PC" to know they are full of it.

Do you honestly believe they don't know how their own system works? You would think if they honestly believed in their product and proud of it and wanted people to actually graciously purchase it that they would make it crystal clear how EVERYTHING anyone questions works, except they don't. They just keep throwing out buzzwords and dodging. You think that guy doesn't know the ins and outs of how that system works? If not, he shouldn't be answering questions. They are only digging their hole deeper.

 

[ImpulsE69]

That would actually be an awesome strategy for MS imo. If they actually created a exploitable hole in their XBOX One OS that people "find" (leaked by MS to hacker forums) that allowed cracked games etc. the consoles would fly off the shelves. They could then plug the hole with an update after a few months, leaving people with having to buy games going forward.

I mean they would lose a bunch of money in game sales but they would get a bunch more consoles out into peoples hands than they are probably looking at now.

LOL sorry but unless the hack fixes the online check (which would prevent any such hole plug from actually working), then no sale.

 

[purbeast0]

I'm sorry, but MS is hiding shit plain and simple. They are using market speak, and doing a piss poor job of it. People are asking them fair questions to get clarification on their system and they are dodging and spinning because they know they got caught. They thought they could do anything and people would just be saying "take my money". All you have to do is look at the specs, price and then listen to them say "this is a high end PC" to know they are full of it.

Do you honestly believe they don't know how their own system works? You would think if they honestly believed in their product and proud of it and wanted people to actually graciously purchase it that they would make it crystal clear how EVERYTHING anyone questions works, except they don't. They just keep throwing out buzzwords and dodging. You think that guy doesn't know the ins and outs of how that system works? If not, he shouldn't be answering questions. They are only digging their hole deeper.

i think part of it is that they did NOT expect this backlash at all, no matter how many times they say they did expect it. and now that they are seeing it, they aren't set in stone in their policies, so instead of giving definitive answers they continue to just beat around the bush and not give straight answers to some of these questions.

so i really think that at this point in time, ms has no clue about some of these things.

but i'm curious, what "ins and outs" are you talking about him not knowing? for the most part there really isn't any uncertainty about the CURRENT policies they have in place to me.

 

[ImpulsE69]

I think this deserves reposting:

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/...ing-quiet-on-used-game-policies-for-xbox-one/

Considering how much MS has stressed that it was publishers that pushed for their setup, I find it interesting even EA is saying they knew nothing about it. What is also interesting though is EA said the same thing about Sony's policies....so who's lying here?

 

[ImpulsE69]

i think part of it is that they did NOT expect this backlash at all, no matter how many times they say they did expect it. and now that they are seeing it, they aren't set in stone in their policies, so instead of giving definitive answers they continue to just beat around the bush and not give straight answers to some of these questions.

so i really think that at this point in time, ms has no clue about some of these things.

but i'm curious, what "ins and outs" are you talking about him not knowing? for the most part there really isn't any uncertainty about the CURRENT policies they have in place to me.

I'm saying they know, but they aren't saying and in those interviews of Major Nelson, he says "i don't know about that, or I cannot speak to that (not "about" that)" more than once.

 

[DaveSimmons]

What isn't clear are:

- how "family" sharing works. No straight answers yet.

- how used game sales will work in practice. Apparently MS blindsided the publishers with their trade in authorization scheme and publishers are still debating how to deal with it:

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/...ing-quiet-on-used-game-policies-for-xbox-one/

- what the clock speed of the CPU and GPU will be

- whether launch titles will really be playable at 1080p on the APU, since it's not using Windows 7 and a GTX 680 like at E3

 

[purbeast0]

What isn't clear are:

- how "family" sharing works. No straight answers yet.

- how used game sales will work in practice. Apparently MS blindsided the publishers with their trade in authorization scheme and publishers are still debating how to deal with it:

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/...ing-quiet-on-used-game-policies-for-xbox-one/

- what the clock speed of the CPU and GPU will be

- whether launch titles will really be playable at 1080p on the APU, since it's not using Windows 7 and a GTX 680 like at E3

1 and 2 have already been clarified.

1. watch angry joe interview major nelson. he goes in depth about how it works, and i explained it earlier in this thread like not that long ago.

2. not sure what more you want. they already told us exactly how it works. you can sell/buy/trade used games to authorized retailers, and gift a game once to a friend who's been on your buddy list for at least 30 days.

3 i don't care about but i also don't know, nor do i remember anyone asking this question or it being dodged. same with your number 4.

 

[cmdrdredd]

1 and 2 have already been clarified.

1. watch angry joe interview major nelson. he goes in depth about how it works, and i explained it earlier in this thread like not that long ago.

2. not sure what more you want. they already told us exactly how it works. you can sell/buy/trade used games to authorized retailers, and gift a game once to a friend who's been on your buddy list for at least 30 days.

3 i don't care about but i also don't know, nor do i remember anyone asking this question or it being dodged. same with your number 4.

I think the clarification about used game trade ins is due to the fee that we assume will be assessed to someone in the chain. Retailers won't be given the green light to authenticate licenses for free will they? I'm thinking there's some catch in there that we don't know about.

The thing is people want clear answers right now but there are none. Not sure why MS hasn't exactly given everything spelled out. Maybe it's just me but if I'm going to put drm in and change what consumers do with products they buy and how they can use them, I would want people to know everything about the product...what it can and can't do, what you as a user can and can't do.

The used game, or family sharing plan idea really needs documentation. Are they just going to roll that out at release, in a couple months, we don't know. Knowing only what I knew from e3 about the Xbox one, is why I wasn't interested in it. Maybe that will change and it won't be so bad as the things people are talking about in here. Who knows..

We especially want to know if we are expected to fork over $500 and pre-order etc. Do they expect a leap of faith?

 

[sze5003]

Major nelson mentioned checking in and out games, which seems like one person playing besides yourself. He mentioned two at the same time if it's split screen. But seems he did not want to budge on expanding the answer. If you can add more people to your family plan as they say, who besides the owner has full rights? Can you kick everyone off any time? Is it like Netflix where I can give login to my family but up to like 4 systems or so? He also didn't expand on the drm stuff. It just seemed like he wasn't sure about everything.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Major nelson mentioned checking in and out games, which seems like one person playing besides yourself. He mentioned two at the same time if it's split screen. But seems he did not want to budge on expanding the answer. If you can add more people to your family plan as they say, who besides the owner has full rights? Can you kick everyone off any time? Is it like Netflix where I can give login to my family but up to like 4 systems or so? He also didn't expand on the drm stuff. It just seemed like he wasn't sure about everything.

Right...my biggest issue is the "two can play at a time" thing. If you have 10 people on there you can easily have some conflict when a new game is purchased. Someone can just leave their system on with the game running 24/7 so they never get locked out of the "two can play at a time" rule. What about a leecher. Two guys link their systems on the family plan. They pool money to buy a single copy of a game and they both play it. That means there's only one copy of a game being purchased for two consoles who could in theory, be on the opposite side of the country from each other. I'm not sure that's the scenario MS thought up when they made this plan.

 

[purbeast0]

Right...my biggest issue is the "two can play at a time" thing. If you have 10 people on there you can easily have some conflict when a new game is purchased. Someone can just leave their system on with the game running 24/7 so they never get locked out of the "two can play at a time" rule. What about a leecher. Two guys link their systems on the family plan. They pool money to buy a single copy of a game and they both play it. That means there's only one copy of a game being purchased for two consoles who could in theory, be on the opposite side of the country from each other. I'm not sure that's the scenario MS thought up when they made this plan.

that is exactly what it means. again, think of it as if you had 1 physical copy of the same game. when one of your friends is playing it, you aren't, because they have your disc. if you want to play it, you need the disc and he can't play it. same with actual family members in the house. if you have 2 consoles but only 1 purchased copy, you can only play it on one machine at a time. but with the new "family" plan instead of sharing 1 physical copy of the disc, you are sharing the digital copy of the disc.

i thought that 2 people can't be playing the same game at the same time, under 1 license, unless it is like a split screen game. but i haven't been following it too much because this isn't something i care about that much, this was just from hearing it in passing.

as far as 10 people getting together to share a copy of the game, it seems like too much of a hassle to even bother, especially if it's for a multiplayer game. but if you aren't in a hurry for a single player game, it could be great. like i would have done that with tomb raider, the last of us, uncharted, etc. games that i play once, beat, never play again.

as far as having a friend who is keeping his game on 24/7, if you have someone like that on your friend list, doesn't sound like you should have gotten into any financial agreements with the dbag.

 

[smackababy]

Right...my biggest issue is the "two can play at a time" thing. If you have 10 people on there you can easily have some conflict when a new game is purchased. Someone can just leave their system on with the game running 24/7 so they never get locked out of the "two can play at a time" rule. What about a leecher. Two guys link their systems on the family plan. They pool money to buy a single copy of a game and they both play it. That means there's only one copy of a game being purchased for two consoles who could in theory, be on the opposite side of the country from each other. I'm not sure that's the scenario MS thought up when they made this plan.

The big complaint is that, at worse, it is more convenient than the current system in place? Sure, people might "abuse" the system, but MS doesn't care. It is much better than the current loaning system, because there is no down time for you.

 

[cmdrdredd]

The big complaint is that, at worse, it is more convenient than the current system in place? Sure, people might "abuse" the system, but MS doesn't care. It is much better than the current loaning system, because there is no down time for you.

No the complaint is that if you make use of it, as it's written...people can block you from playing.

 

[sze5003]

Still doesn't make sense if only one copy can be played at one time by one person, what good does it do you? Say you just bought the system and only have one game. Your brother or sis is playing your digital game on his or her console. What about you, if you want to play the same game on your system ? Letting up to ten people for 2-3 games is just a headache. Leave it to you to track down who is doing what. I had to do that stuff with Netflix and it got annoying. Finally just went on the site and unregistered all devices except my ps3. Of course all my family members started calling me.

If it's you and just one person and one game it is ok it works but if that person tells a friend hey you can get this game from my account, I downloaded it from my brother and I can add you to my game tag as family, they must have some check for this. It all just seems too complicated to understand and I'm not knocking it because it's cool to share, but your inviting a can of worms here without set boundaries and rules.

If they aren't sure how it's suppose to be done then who is ? The scenario reminds me of a probability problem, figure out the possible combinations you can have...that should be their job to define to us.

 

[purbeast0]

where did that image come from? i saw it a while ago but had no clue where it actually originated from. i was not aware that you and a friend can play the same game at the same time, from 2 separate consoles. pretty interesting if that is true.

 

[purbeast0]

another killer instinct video with another developer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngPylkj-NEY&feature=player_embedded

i like what they say about the tournament scene and that they are working with ms to get it to work in the tourney scene.

 

[sze5003]

where did that image come from? i saw it a while ago but had no clue where it actually originated from. i was not aware that you and a friend can play the same game at the same time, from 2 separate consoles. pretty interesting if that is true.

That's one of the things he mentioned as sharing one of your games in the interview. Only you and one other friend can play the same game at once. But if you have other games and other friends they can't play your other games until that one friend is off of whatever game he or she is using. I can see it now, 10-12 year olds going to school oh he's my best friend play this game with me..before you know it the kid adds his whole class to his "family" and all the drama erupts over who is playing what and who needs to get off lol

 

[Dari]

Still doesn't make sense if only one copy can be played at one time by one person, what good does it do you? Say you just bought the system and only have one game. Your brother or sis is playing your digital game on his or her console. What about you, if you want to play the same game on your system ? Letting up to ten people for 2-3 games is just a headache. Leave it to you to track down who is doing what. I had to do that stuff with Netflix and it got annoying. Finally just went on the site and unregistered all devices except my ps3. Of course all my family members started calling me.

If it's you and just one person and one game it is ok it works but if that person tells a friend hey you can get this game from my account, I downloaded it from my brother and I can add you to my game tag as family, they must have some check for this. It all just seems too complicated to understand and I'm not knocking it because it's cool to share, but your inviting a can of worms here without set boundaries and rules.

If they aren't sure how it's suppose to be done then who is ? The scenario reminds me of a probability problem, figure out the possible combinations you can have...that should be their job to define to us.

I'm not sure it would even work that way. There would have to be a master-slave relationship where only the immediate "family" member who downloads the game has accessibility rights and, therefore, cannot share it. So, Joe Blow can share it with Joe Moe, making Joe Blow the owner. Joe Moe may have it on his Xbox One but it won't be seen by the Moe's own "family" since the game isn't his to share.

At least that's how I see it would work...

 

[cmdrdredd]

where did that image come from? i saw it a while ago but had no clue where it actually originated from. i was not aware that you and a friend can play the same game at the same time, from 2 separate consoles. pretty interesting if that is true.

This is what people have been buzzing about elsewhere and I pulled it from a forum search.

The thing with all this is that Microsoft says "we are doing this, this, that, and that too" without explaining how it works, why we should want it and care, and from the standpoint of a consumer, why it should be a selling point. At least if MS was forthcoming with details and we all understood the boundaries of everything I could give them some credit for being up front and honest. I cannot even do that at this point. It is as if they sat around a table and came up with all these features before the engineers could figure out how to make it all work and not be a huge exploit.

Like I said... It sounds great but without details about the limitations etc. I cannot use it as a point of recommendation.

 

[erwos]

The FAQ (http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/license) seems very explicit that you will always be able to play your own games, even when shared.

The Ars Technica interview (http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/06/microsoft-defends-the-xbox-ones-licensing-used-game-policies/) has a sidebar describing this feature further, and it says that the "only limitation, it seems, is that only one person can be playing the shared copy of a single game at any given time."

I am recalling from another article, and I forget where it was, that this essentially means "the owner and one family member can play the same game simultaneously". But two family members couldn't. But, if the owner and a family member were playing the same game from the owner's shared collection, another family member could simultaneously play another game from the owner's shared collection.

It is a freaking awesome feature if it works like that. No more buying the same game twice in the same house (unless 3+ people want to play it simultaneously?).

 

[spaceman]

all the steam comps neglect one important thang
steam dont have a revolvingcost
in addition to sales
xbox is and has been a platform for pre crippled software

 

[cmdrdredd]

all the steam comps neglect one important thang
steam dont have a revolvingcost
in addition to sales

Plus you aren't pay walled to play a free game.

The FAQ (http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/license) seems very explicit that you will always be able to play your own games, even when shared.

The Ars Technica interview (http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/06/microsoft-defends-the-xbox-ones-licensing-used-game-policies/) has a sidebar describing this feature further, and it says that the "only limitation, it seems, is that only one person can be playing the shared copy of a single game at any given time."

I am recalling from another article, and I forget where it was, that this essentially means "the owner and one family member can play the same game simultaneously". But two family members couldn't. But, if the owner and a family member were playing the same game from the owner's shared collection, another family member could simultaneously play another game from the owner's shared collection.

It is a freaking awesome feature if it works like that. No more buying the same game twice in the same house (unless 3+ people want to play it simultaneously?).

I don't see anywhere that explains if you can do MP this way as well or what. Cause if it really works like that there is nothing to stop two guys from splitting cost on a single title and both playing as if it were two copies. That is lost game sales right there. Microsoft claims they are trying to help the developers etc. Get more cash? This will give them less.

 

[erwos]

I don't see anywhere that explains if you can do MP this way as well or what. Cause if it really works like that there is nothing to stop two guys from splitting cost on a single title and both playing as if it were two copies.

This is how it worked with Sony for a while, no? They let you download your games on to multiple consoles and play them without being logged in. So it's hardly unprecedented. The key thing here is that it only works for two people at a time in a circle of ten... and one of those has to be a specific person. I just don't see this as a big sales problem. Hell, it might even drive sales if the game is popular enough - you play it, you like it, but you can't get enough time in because everyone else is playing and liking the shared copy.

I also suspect that they'll be putting some rather strict limits on how often you can leave/join a "family".

That is lost game sales right there. Microsoft claims they are trying to help the developers etc. Get more cash? This will give them less.

Man, Microsoft just can't ever catch a break with some people. They do something like this, which is stunningly consumer-friendly and forward-looking in concept, and the SDF starts whining about devs and lost sales. Mind you, this is the same crowd who was praising Sony when they did what I mentioned above.

 

[Tweak155]

This is how it worked with Sony for a while, no? They let you download your games on to multiple consoles and play them without being logged in. So it's hardly unprecedented. The key thing here is that it only works for two people at a time in a circle of ten... and one of those has to be a specific person. I just don't see this as a big sales problem. Hell, it might even drive sales if the game is popular enough - you play it, you like it, but you can't get enough time in because everyone else is playing and liking the shared copy.

I also suspect that they'll be putting some rather strict limits on how often you can leave/join a "family".


Man, Microsoft just can't ever catch a break with some people. They do something like this, which is stunningly consumer-friendly and forward-looking in concept, and the SDF starts whining about devs and lost sales. Mind you, this is the same crowd who was praising Sony when they did what I mentioned above.

You're assuming your interpretation is correct. Further it isn't necessarily what will take place come launch. If MS goal is to protect publisher sales, "giving away" copies doesn't make sense, even on a limited basis.

If that is in fact how it works, then of course we welcome it. But it's like someone telling you to jump off a building because, trust me, I know you will be safe. Just doesn't make sense right now with everything considered.