The Official Xbox One Thread

[smackababy]

Clearly you've never touched real code in your life either, N00bius Maximus.

"DERP AZURE WILL NEVER SHUT DOWN DERP!!! GAMES WILL BE AVAILABLE FOREVER BECAUSE AZURE!! DERP!!!"

That's what I said wasn't it? Man, I am glad you quoted me directly.

I doubt you are managing anything other than making yourself look stupid. Nobody said they would be available forever. The fact is, Azure is not going away any time soon. Even if MS fails miserably and loses 100 billion dollars this quarter and has to turn the lights off, a company will buy Azure either before or after they declare bankruptcy. And the server swill continue to run.

I am sure, being a developer, know just how easy it is to remove an integral part of a large system is, right? Yep, 2 weeks with testing at maximum! You have no idea what the system is doing, and have no bearing on whether it will be hard or not. Same with me though. And people crying about MS calling out someone who said "oh it'd be easy" isn't news either.

 

[exdeath]

Characters in the game could react to your facial expressions.

Maybe I'm pissed off in real life and playing to blow off steam. I don't want that fucking up my character build and interactions with NPCs any more than I need people looking at me on a front facing camera on a phone when I'm talking to them while taking a shit. Eg useless gimmicky features.

 

[exdeath]

Heh until youve written pipelined <12 cycle per vertex transformed, perspective divided, and clip flagged VU1 code on PS2 with self feeding asynchronous DMA chains and VIF1 vertex stream unpacking and VU1 program changing, and texture uploads, with VIF1 fences for EE synchronization, or 4096 x 4096 4 way scrolling maps or 4+ layers of parallax scrolling backgrounds on a 8 bit NES using various combinations of CHR-ROM bank switching, MMC3 scanline interrupts, and PPU timed 6502 code, I don't want to hear how bad ass of a coder anyone is :awe:

/flex

 

[Tweak155]

Maybe I'm pissed off in real life and playing to blow off steam. I don't want that fucking up my character build and interactions with NPCs any more than I need people looking at me on a front facing camera on a phone when I'm talking to them while taking a shit. Eg useless gimmicky features.

Then don't buy the game... ?

 

[RedRooster]

Heh until youve written pipelined <12 cycle per vertex transformed, perspective divided, and clip flagged VU1 code on PS2 with self feeding asynchronous DMA chains and VIF1 vertex stream unpacking and VU1 program changing, and texture uploads, with VIF1 fences for EE synchronization, or 4096 x 4096 4 way scrolling maps or 4+ layers of parallax scrolling backgrounds on a 8 bit NES, I don't want to hear how bad ass of a coder anyone is :awe:

 

[Tweak155]

I started as a developer 20 years ago, and have been a managing developer, and now a department manager. If anybody wrote a check that took more than two weeks to disable from start to finish, including the change request, development, regression testing, and check in, I'd fire their incompetent asses on the spot.

If this is true, you should know not to make assumptions.

Exactly how far along is their code for the check? Has it been started? 100% completed? Tested?

No one has the information to make any assumptions other than the devs working on it.

 

[ImpulsE69]

Maybe I'm pissed off in real life and playing to blow off steam. I don't want that fucking up my character build and interactions with NPCs any more than I need people looking at me on a front facing camera on a phone when I'm talking to them while taking a shit. Eg useless gimmicky features.

It's not like it would ruin your game, you can save it to the cloud as much as you'd like just by yelling "G*DDAMIT XBOX RELOAD"

 

[Tweak155]

Heh until youve written pipelined <12 cycle per vertex transformed, perspective divided, and clip flagged VU1 code on PS2 with self feeding asynchronous DMA chains and VIF1 vertex stream unpacking and VU1 program changing, and texture uploads, with VIF1 fences for EE synchronization, or 4096 x 4096 4 way scrolling maps or 4+ layers of parallax scrolling backgrounds on a 8 bit NES using various combinations of CHR-ROM bank switching, MMC3 scanline interrupts, and PPU timed 6502 code, I don't want to hear how bad ass of a coder anyone is :awe:

/flex

Yeah, I'm sure that landed you one awesome job.

 

[KeithTalent]

Please keep the discussion civil and on-topic, otherwise infractions/vacations will be handed out.

Trolling, name-calling, and cursing will not be tolerated!

Thank you.

Anandtech Moderator
KeithTalent

 

[cmdrdredd]

Geeze people...who cares how hard or how long it takes to change code. The point is they gave everyone a hard tonw about asking about it and asked if they were on the dev team. Then 3 days later they announce all these changes

 

[smackababy]

Geeze people...who cares how hard or how long it takes to change code. The point is they gave everyone a hard tonw about asking about it and asked if they were on the dev team. Then 3 days later they announce all these changes

The problem stems from people assuming it is just as simple as unchecking a box and that it doesn't have some deeper integration. We don't know the actual extent of the system, and never will really. People were getting upset because Joe was put on blast for not knowing anything about it, and then they announced they were removing it a few days later. And they assume it was so easy. They could have to recode the entire OS for all we know. That is a bit extreme, and highly unlikely, but with 5 months until release, removing it isn't a big deal whether it is hard or not.

The real question is how will this impact developers now. Before, you could assume the console was going to be online and possibly have features only available online as integral parts of the game. With that completely gone, it is unlikely people will "use the cloud" as often and for things of import.

 

[exdeath]

Haha didn't get that one, had to youtube it.

 

[BoberFett]

That's what I said wasn't it? Man, I am glad you quoted me directly.

I doubt you are managing anything other than making yourself look stupid. Nobody said they would be available forever. The fact is, Azure is not going away any time soon. Even if MS fails miserably and loses 100 billion dollars this quarter and has to turn the lights off, a company will buy Azure either before or after they declare bankruptcy. And the server swill continue to run.

I'll say it again. Azure is a platform. Just because some other company purchases the assets after MS decides that it's no longer profitable does not mean the new owner will continue to run the XBL service which used to run on that platform.

There's more to a server than a physical box. What makes you think some other owner will want to continue running unprofitable services?

I am sure, being a developer, know just how easy it is to remove an integral part of a large system is, right? Yep, 2 weeks with testing at maximum! You have no idea what the system is doing, and have no bearing on whether it will be hard or not. Same with me though. And people crying about MS calling out someone who said "oh it'd be easy" isn't news either.

Some of us are professionals in the industry. Just because you're a L33T GAMER! doesn't mean you have clue #1 about how professionally developed software works.

 

[BoberFett]

Heh until youve written pipelined <12 cycle per vertex transformed, perspective divided, and clip flagged VU1 code on PS2 with self feeding asynchronous DMA chains and VIF1 vertex stream unpacking and VU1 program changing, and texture uploads, with VIF1 fences for EE synchronization, or 4096 x 4096 4 way scrolling maps or 4+ layers of parallax scrolling backgrounds on a 8 bit NES using various combinations of CHR-ROM bank switching, MMC3 scanline interrupts, and PPU timed 6502 code, I don't want to hear how bad ass of a coder anyone is :awe:

/flex

I wouldn't want you writing any of my business code either. I want my business logic code written by people who understand that maintainability trumps performance. DRM and license checking is business code.

I'm sure you create some badass 4k demos though.

 

[BoberFett]

If this is true, you should know not to make assumptions.

Exactly how far along is their code for the check? Has it been started? 100% completed? Tested?

No one has the information to make any assumptions other than the devs working on it.

Considering MS has said all along that none of this is enforced by them, and that it's up to the publisher to determine specifically how to use their DRM (within the parameters that MS has already set) then the options are already there.

 

[Aikouka]

your problem is that you are thinking inside the box. i'm thinking outside the box.

you are thinking "what could they do in current games with voice control that would make the game cooler/better/easier" and i'm thinking "show me something with kinect i've never seen before."

I think you're misunderstanding what I'm trying to talk about. This all started with people talking about the Kinect being bundled with the X1, and other suggested that by having it bundled, developers may see more of a reason to use it. That's where I interjected with two points:

1) There was already plenty of reason for developers to consider using the Kinect as the device actually has a pretty good adoption rate.

2) Voice and gesture controls aren't necessarily a good method of control over standard controller-based methods. This mostly affects games that attempt to add extra features accessible through the Kinect (i.e. "Better with Kinect" games).

I did also present a good benefit of having a Kinect that I think would actually be beneficial, but I don't know if Microsoft has it: speech-to-text. Imagine if you could respond to a message while gaming without even having to pause? Although, that could be negated if people use voice calling more often.

 

[exdeath]

I wouldn't want you writing any of my business code either. I want my business logic code written by people who understand that maintainability trumps performance. DRM and license checking is business code.

I'm sure you create some badass 4k demos though.

I was writing an OpenGL miniport on PS2 and writing my test modules in GNU C++/OpenGL so technically it would have been aiding portability and maintainability. Somebody has to create the APIs/libraries/standards/drivers you guys use

 

[BoberFett]

I was writing an OpenGL miniport on PS2 and writing my test modules in GNU C++/OpenGL so technically it would have been aiding portability and maintainability. Somebody has to create the APIs/libraries/standards/drivers you guys use

I've got nothing but respect for you borderline autistics who write to the metal and obsess over clock cycles.

But I've always been on the business side, so give me a 3GL and I'm happy.

 

[DaveSimmons]

The real question is how will this impact developers now. Before, you could assume the console was going to be online and possibly have features only available online as integral parts of the game. With that completely gone, it is unlikely people will "use the cloud" as often and for things of import.

We had a thread in ArsTechnica GESC about what AwesomeCloud would be good for in real-world use, and it's unlikely to be used for much more than [ dedicated multiplayer game servers and ] Steam cloud - game saves, a little info sharing, maybe Dark Souls style cross-player effects. In short, nothing real-time or Azure-specific.

The "4x X1 power real time computering" is hooey. Developers couldn't count on that working once MS backed away from a 24/7 always online requirement and made it a once-a-day check. Even with always online they would have needed to code for lag spikes, server hiccups, and connection drops.

Removing the check entirely doesn't really change that most games would only have used Azure for optional, non-essential bits, and they can still do that exactly the same as before the MS 180. Games needed fallback code for latency and connection drops before, and that fallback code will work just the same with no connection as with a bad connection.

 

[KaOTiK]

Xbox One Family Plan was apparantly not what we were thinking at all.

http://www.heyuguysgaming.com/news/12507/heartbroken-xbox-one-employee-lets-rip-must-read

I read this earlier today but wasn't sure if it was BS or not and didn't bother posting. It seems that it probably is pretty legit as CBOAT (guy that posted a bunch of leaked info on the X1 and ended up being right) confirmed that was how it was. Obviously have to take with a grain of salt, but we will probably never hear that it is true from MS if it is I imagine.

If it is true....

 

[ImpulsE69]

Xbox One Family Plan was apparantly not what we were thinking at all.

http://www.heyuguysgaming.com/news/12507/heartbroken-xbox-one-employee-lets-rip-must-read

I read this earlier today but wasn't sure if it was BS or not and didn't bother posting. It seems that it probably is pretty legit as CBOAT (guy that posted a bunch of leaked info on the X1 and ended up being right) confirmed that was how it was. Obviously have to take with a grain of salt, but we will probably never hear that it is true from MS if it is I imagine.

If it is true....

I stopped at "when you buy a used game you are hurting the developer much more than in other industries". Anyone who thinks this has nothing to say I'm interested in. Guess they should quit bleeding money on semi crap games. Good games sell. Period. Used games drive the market. Trying to guilt the consumer into not buying used? Sorry, that medium has always existed, if you can't hang, then you are doing it wrong. Can't sell that 300 million dollar game? Quit spending 300 million on trash and trying to pass it off as a AAA title. Quit dragging your developers through the muck and let them actually make a quality game. Quit trying to caiter to people who aren't interested in your particular game to begin with ending in a watered down mess that no one wants.

The consumer isn't at fault here.

EDIT: OK I lied, I kept reading. BWHAHAHAH. So the family share plan wasn't what people thought. It was demos with limited # of times you could play them. Again, it was there to market more sales, it had nothing to do with letting you share games with family/friends.

 

[purbeast0]

Xbox One Family Plan was apparantly not what we were thinking at all.

http://www.heyuguysgaming.com/news/12507/heartbroken-xbox-one-employee-lets-rip-must-read

I read this earlier today but wasn't sure if it was BS or not and didn't bother posting. It seems that it probably is pretty legit as CBOAT (guy that posted a bunch of leaked info on the X1 and ended up being right) confirmed that was how it was. Obviously have to take with a grain of salt, but we will probably never hear that it is true from MS if it is I imagine.

If it is true....

lol it's funny because today at my job we actually had a meeting and the POC from our client told us to not get emotionally attached to any code that we write because we're an agile environment and things change daily. so you cuold work on something for 2 months that ends up getting scrapped, and to not take it personal because you did what you were asked, but in the end, it wasn't the solution.

sounds like this guy got emotionally attached to his work. regardless, he's eating just fine.

 

[ImpulsE69]

lol it's funny because today at my job we actually had a meeting and the POC from our client told us to not get emotionally attached to any code that we write because we're an agile environment and things change daily. so you cuold work on something for 2 months that ends up getting scrapped, and to not take it personal because you did what you were asked, but in the end, it wasn't the solution.

sounds like this guy got emotionally attached to his work. regardless, he's eating just fine.

He probably truly believed he had created a fair solution to what they deemed as a problem. What is very apparent though is they did a very bad job of actually explaining it since it seems it wasn't even remotely how they described it (worse actually).

 

[purbeast0]

He probably truly believed he had created a fair solution to what they deemed as a problem. What is very apparent though is they did a very bad job of actually explaining it since it seems it wasn't even remotely how they described it (worse actually).

yeah i'm guessing it is because ms still didn't know what the final policies were, which is why we saw all this confusion about everything with mixed answers.

 

[KaOTiK]

He probably truly believed he had created a fair solution to what they deemed as a problem. What is very apparent though is they did a very bad job of actually explaining it since it seems it wasn't even remotely how they described it (worse actually).

yeah i'm guessing it is because ms still didn't know what the final policies were, which is why we saw all this confusion about everything with mixed answers.

Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. We had xbox support, the PR guys, and the execs all saying different shit on the same things. No one knew shit at MS we can all pretty safely agree on lol.