The Official Xbox One Thread

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cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
Craig's list in my area is bad not because of the reasons you mention, but people are ballsey enough to pull a gun on you and rob you right in broad daylight at the mall. Or just shoot you outright and raid your wallet. Gotta be super careful who you deal with. If they look shady just walk away. Its sad actually. Rather pay a fee somewhere instead.
 

sze5003

Lifer
Aug 18, 2012
14,297
672
126
Craig's list in my area is bad not because of the reasons you mention, but people are ballsey enough to pull a gun on you and rob you right in broad daylight at the mall. Or just shoot you outright and raid your wallet. Gotta be super careful who you deal with. If they look shady just walk away. Its sad actually. Rather pay a fee somewhere instead.

It's no different in Philadelphia. Always pick a public place. I usually will bring a friend or if you have a permit to carry then bring your weapon just to be sure. It is sad. Lots of people don't mind you showing up at their house either. The fees for a $500 sale on a $399 ps4 are gonna be pretty large. Then PayPal also takes it's cut.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
It's no different in Philadelphia. Always pick a public place. I usually will bring a friend or if you have a permit to carry then bring your weapon just to be sure. It is sad. Lots of people don't mind you showing up at their house either. The fees for a $500 sale on a $399 ps4 are gonna be pretty large. Then PayPal also takes it's cut.

Yeah...I have a ccw but even then I wouldn't wanna get into a confrontation. The few times I used Craig list I made them come to me since I have security cameras pointed right at them and I can prevent being sunk up on from behind. Maybe its paranoia to some but I have taken enough classes to understand the benefit of tactical advantage.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
It's even sadder people seem to think that both companies won't do everything in their power to extract money from your wallet. The "Sony is my friend" syndrome going around desperately needs to be shattered.

Especially considering the awful stuff Sony has pulled in the past. =(
 

American Gunner

Platinum Member
Aug 26, 2010
2,399
0
71
It's even sadder people seem to think that both companies won't do everything in their power to extract money from your wallet. The "Sony is my friend" syndrome going around desperately needs to be shattered.
Yeah, people are pretty quick to forget all the crappy stuff Sony has done and continues to do, all because of the DRM stuff that is now even.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
Yeah...I have a ccw but even then I wouldn't wanna get into a confrontation. The few times I used Craig list I made them come to me since I have security cameras pointed right at them and I can prevent being sunk up on from behind. Maybe its paranoia to some but I have taken enough classes to understand the benefit of tactical advantage.

I've had no problems in Chicago and no problems in Montgomery / Birmingham AL (which have pretty bad crime rates). I just always tell them to meet me in a public place, and do the deal in that place. I try to avoid shady areas as much as possible.
 

Tweak155

Lifer
Sep 23, 2003
11,448
262
126
It is an advantage. PC gaming has enjoyed dedicated servers for a long time. And yes, it can have the plug pulled, same as every other game with servers in the history of servers and the internet. The difference is most servers are rented from certain companies and are a bit costly. MS is using a scalable system and it is apparently fairly low cost. Running a single CPU with small amount of RAM to accommodate the 5 people still playing Madden 14 when Madden 24 is out, shouldn't be so cost prohibitive. Does that mean EA will keep the server running forever? Of course not. Eventually, cost prohibitive or not, they will shut it down.

Maybe I missed it, but name a single player PC game where only certain elements of the game are rendered by the server (not the entire game) such as the Driveatar or NPC's in Titanfall... Once the servers are off you can't keep playing Titanfall in that situation if the NPC's no longer function. Only PC game I can even think of is Diablo 3 and that has transactions which help pay for the servers. And that is one game vs many that could be developed for Xbox.

We're not just talking about disabling the multiplayer functions here, games could quit working very early on (up to the publishers) if they can't / won't foot the bill.

And your example of Madden is ridiculous, I think it highlights that you're missing the point. We're not talking about hosted games here, we're talking about parts of the game being rendered by a server and the impact of those servers being disabled. At least with MP games, if the game is popular enough there is a community that figures out how to user host instead of server host.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
I've had no problems in Chicago and no problems in Montgomery / Birmingham AL (which have pretty bad crime rates). I just always tell them to meet me in a public place, and do the deal in that place. I try to avoid shady areas as much as possible.

Yeah that's the most common advice I see given. Usually you will never have a problem but I do hear stories.
 

Tweak155

Lifer
Sep 23, 2003
11,448
262
126
Yeah that's the most common advice I see given. Usually you will never have a problem but I do hear stories.

Back when I lived in KS and I sold a Motorola phone I had... the dude was really creepy.

He gave me a gas station to meet at so I start heading there... then he calls me and tells me we can't go there because his ex gf works there. I'm like OK? So then I tell him ok that will just give me more time to wipe the phone of settings / pics / etc. He responds to me and says "Oh no you can leave all the pictures on there". I almost turned around and went home... but I kept going.

I get there and he is dressed super thug like... big chains, baggy pants, backwards hat... and has that gangsta walk. I'm just like oh sh*t. But, he took the phone, handed me cash and I was on my way. Good thing it was still daylight...
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
Maybe I missed it, but name a single player PC game where only certain elements of the game are rendered by the server (not the entire game) such as the Driveatar or NPC's in Titanfall... Once the servers are off you can't keep playing Titanfall in that situation if the NPC's no longer function. Only PC game I can even think of is Diablo 3 and that has transactions which help pay for the servers. And that is one game vs many that could be developed for Xbox.

We're not just talking about disabling the multiplayer functions here, games could quit working very early on (up to the publishers) if they can't / won't foot the bill.

And your example of Madden is ridiculous, I think it highlights that you're missing the point. We're not talking about hosted games here, we're talking about parts of the game being rendered by a server and the impact of those servers being disabled. At least with MP games, if the game is popular enough there is a community that figures out how to user host instead of server host.
Every MMO does some kind of compute or validation on a server. Sim City was supposed to use something similar, at least if we are to believe the developers. However, they fell incredibly short of using internet connections to actually expand the game.

Yes, a company can shut down a server that is required for a single player game. However, the scaling of costs with the scaling of servers makes it a lot less likely. Will it happen eventually? Well, of course. It isn't like they have to devote a ton of resources for older games now though. They can have one VM running a single server instance that can accommodate the few players still playing.

If a company does decide to go the OnLive route, then it would take a lot more resources to keep the game running, but after that huge failure, I don't see it happening. However, nVidia shield is doing something similar, so who knows.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
Back when I lived in KS and I sold a Motorola phone I had... the dude was really creepy.

He gave me a gas station to meet at so I start heading there... then he calls me and tells me we can't go there because his ex gf works there. I'm like OK? So then I tell him ok that will just give me more time to wipe the phone of settings / pics / etc. He responds to me and says "Oh no you can leave all the pictures on there". I almost turned around and went home... but I kept going.

I get there and he is dressed super thug like... big chains, baggy pants, backwards hat... and has that gangsta walk. I'm just like oh sh*t. But, he took the phone, handed me cash and I was on my way. Good thing it was still daylight...

The only problems I've heard of with CL was iPhones not being released from the original account before being sold. A friend bought one and the guy said "oh, I'll call and release it" and never did. Luckily for my friend, he ended up getting a different iPhone, dropping and breaking it, and having that one to replace it with.
 

Tweak155

Lifer
Sep 23, 2003
11,448
262
126
Every MMO does some kind of compute or validation on a server. Sim City was supposed to use something similar, at least if we are to believe the developers. However, they fell incredibly short of using internet connections to actually expand the game.

Yes, a company can shut down a server that is required for a single player game. However, the scaling of costs with the scaling of servers makes it a lot less likely. Will it happen eventually? Well, of course. It isn't like they have to devote a ton of resources for older games now though. They can have one VM running a single server instance that can accommodate the few players still playing.

If a company does decide to go the OnLive route, then it would take a lot more resources to keep the game running, but after that huge failure, I don't see it happening. However, nVidia shield is doing something similar, so who knows.

How does an MMO equate to an offline game with cloud calculated improvements?

Perhaps the timing of the advertising is the root of the problem. Back when MS was promoting the cloud calculations, XB1 was an online system, so it may better stand to reason that some games would eventually not work. But even so, MS is CHARGING to provide the calculating power of the cloud.

The advertisement should have looked something more like this:

Quadruple your XB1 power with cloud computing!*

*Cloud computing not included with all titles. Additionally, cloud computing can be disabled at any time for the games which are in fact cloud-enabled. This could render your game unusable or otherwise unplayable. Buy at your own risk. Thanks for your donations. Love you.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,489
6,333
126
How does an MMO equate to an offline game with cloud calculated improvements?

Perhaps the timing of the advertising is the root of the problem. Back when MS was promoting the cloud calculations, XB1 was an online system, so it may better stand to reason that some games would eventually not work. But even so, MS is CHARGING to provide the calculating power of the cloud.

The advertisement should have looked something more like this:

Quadruple your XB1 power with cloud computing!*

*Cloud computing not included with all titles. Additionally, cloud computing can be disabled at any time for the games which are in fact cloud-enabled. This could render your game unusable or otherwise unplayable. Buy at your own risk. Thanks for your donations. Love you.

do you realize how many promises or over hyped things have been made at prior console announcements, that ended up being vaporware?

this tactic of hyping up features that may/may not be there goes back as far as i can remember to the ps2 days. i'm sure it probably goes further back, but there wasn't as much easily accessible info back in the day.
 

Tweak155

Lifer
Sep 23, 2003
11,448
262
126
do you realize how many promises or over hyped things have been made at prior console announcements, that ended up being vaporware?

this tactic of hyping up features that may/may not be there goes back as far as i can remember to the ps2 days. i'm sure it probably goes further back, but there wasn't as much easily accessible info back in the day.

So that makes it OK ... ? Good reasoning.

And we're not just talking hyped up features, we're talking the possible disabling of purchased games. Not at all the same as a feature that didn't make it into something.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,489
6,333
126
So that makes it OK ... ? Good reasoning.

And we're not just talking hyped up features, we're talking the possible disabling of purchased games. Not at all the same as a feature that didn't make it into something.

when did i say it makes it ok? it is just nothing new so it is odd how people are making such a big deal about this.

and the console isn't even out yet, which makes it even worse. at least it wasn't until years after the ps2 was out that we realized how much bs was spewed to us at e3 years prior. but this is just people bitching about features for a console that isn't even out yet and hasn't even been put into practice yet.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
when did i say it makes it ok? it is just nothing new so it is odd how people are making such a big deal about this.

and the console isn't even out yet, which makes it even worse. at least it wasn't until years after the ps2 was out that we realized how much bs was spewed to us at e3 years prior. but this is just people bitching about features for a console that isn't even out yet and hasn't even been put into practice yet.

It is people bitching about MS creating a resource that developers could choose to use or not to use. The knee jerk fanboy reaction of "omg if a game requires a server it could be shut down in the future! omg ms is the devil."
 

Tweak155

Lifer
Sep 23, 2003
11,448
262
126
when did i say it makes it ok? it is just nothing new so it is odd how people are making such a big deal about this.

and the console isn't even out yet, which makes it even worse. at least it wasn't until years after the ps2 was out that we realized how much bs was spewed to us at e3 years prior. but this is just people bitching about features for a console that isn't even out yet and hasn't even been put into practice yet.

This is the one saving grace the console has. If these concerns can be addressed prior to release, then more power to them.
 

Tweak155

Lifer
Sep 23, 2003
11,448
262
126
It is people bitching about MS creating a resource that developers could choose to use or not to use. The knee jerk fanboy reaction of "omg if a game requires a server it could be shut down in the future! omg ms is the devil."

Do you even think about the things you say? How is being worried about turned off features being equated to a "fanboy"? Makes zero sense. If one is interested in purchasing the XB1 but decides not to due to a concern, now they're a fanboy?
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
Do you even think about the things you say? How is being worried about turned off features being equated to a "fanboy"? Makes zero sense. If one is interested in purchasing the XB1 but decides not to due to a concern, now they're a fanboy?

What makes you a fanboy is bashing MS for having the idea of "maybe DEVELOPERS will want to use our servers to do things". That means "omg all my single player games will be shut off by MS" in the minds of the morons.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,489
6,333
126
his snark attitude with people who don't agree with him 100% about how ms cloud idea or the kinect also isn't helping his image.

i personally don't have any opinion on either of them, other than i'm not excited about either, since i haven't used them and they haven't shown us how they will be used. and i won't know for months either since it's not out for 5 months.
 

Tweak155

Lifer
Sep 23, 2003
11,448
262
126
What makes you a fanboy is bashing MS for having the idea of "maybe DEVELOPERS will want to use our servers to do things". That means "omg all my single player games will be shut off by MS" in the minds of the morons.

I'm not bashing MS outside of charging for a touted feature, and a feature that could cripple games when not paid for. Some people may consider that the opposite of a feature.

And you insisting I'm a fanboy does not make it so, but given your (in)ability to reason I can see how you'd equate it to that.
 

Tweak155

Lifer
Sep 23, 2003
11,448
262
126
his snark attitude with people who don't agree with him 100% about how ms cloud idea or the kinect also isn't helping his image.

i personally don't have any opinion on either of them, other than i'm not excited about either, since i haven't used them and they haven't shown us how they will be used. and i won't know for months either since it's not out for 5 months.

Who is "his"? If you're referring to me I'm not really worried about my "image" (wtf?). Additionally I only reply snidely when replying to a snide remark.

You don't have to agree with facts, but that's your choice. I postulate (most) statements as either fact / opinion / unknown and make it very clear which they are. The majority of this argument has been on the unknown since, as you've stated a few times, this is an unreleased console. I always hold that opinion.

Only reason I probably appear as a "fanboy" is because PS4 doesn't have a whole lot of news on it like XB1 does. The last "negative" I can even recall is PSN+ being required for multiplayer. But since then what real news has there been? Perhaps it just doesn't perpetuate on these forums which is my source of most articles on these topics.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,489
6,333
126
Who is "his"? If you're referring to me I'm not really worried about my "image" (wtf?). Additionally I only reply snidely when replying to a snide remark.

You don't have to agree with facts, but that's your choice. I postulate (most) statements as either fact / opinion / unknown and make it very clear which they are. The majority of this argument has been on the unknown since, as you've stated a few times, this is an unreleased console. I always hold that opinion.

Only reason I probably appear as a "fanboy" is because PS4 doesn't have a whole lot of news on it like XB1 does. The last "negative" I can even recall is PSN+ being required for multiplayer. But since then what real news has there been? Perhaps it just doesn't perpetuate on these forums which is my source of most articles on these topics.

you don't care about your image, yet you are wondering/worried about him calling you a fanboy... rriigghhtt.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
Who is "his"? If you're referring to me I'm not really worried about my "image" (wtf?). Additionally I only reply snidely when replying to a snide remark.

You don't have to agree with facts, but that's your choice. I postulate (most) statements as either fact / opinion / unknown and make it very clear which they are. The majority of this argument has been on the unknown since, as you've stated a few times, this is an unreleased console. I always hold that opinion.

Only reason I probably appear as a "fanboy" is because PS4 doesn't have a whole lot of news on it like XB1 does. The last "negative" I can even recall is PSN+ being required for multiplayer. But since then what real news has there been? Perhaps it just doesn't perpetuate on these forums which is my source of most articles on these topics.

Except your "facts" are lined up with reality. You are complaining about a feature that we have no idea as to how or if it will be even used. You are complaining about the Xbox One having an infrastructure set up so if a developer wants to require a connection to a server to play a single player game, they can shut it down at any time. This is not some Xbox One only phenomenon! You can do the exact same thing on the PS4 and the PC and probably the Wii U. But, of course, MS is the bad company for making it easier and cheaper for developers to do this.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,489
6,333
126
im really surprised that with all of the kinect they are trying to hype, up they had 0 games in their keynote that showed it off.
 
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