The Official Xbox One Thread

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purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,489
6,333
126
you guys are completely forgetting about the millions upon millions of dollars spent on R&D for the new consoles. just because the physical pieces of a console cost X and they sell it for X+$25 does not mean they are "making" $25 per console.
 

Staples

Diamond Member
Oct 28, 2001
4,953
119
106
I find it hard to believe that you think this. Consider the PR storm this company went through with the RROD, hardware failure on that scale again would be a huge mess up.

The upclock will probably do nothing but it's easier to market 853 vs 800 to people who don't know much.

Maybe they should sell the overclocked edition and charge another $50.

Worked for BFG for many years. Now every brand of video card has their overpriced "overclocked" edition.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,379
126
you guys are completely forgetting about the millions upon millions of dollars spent on R&D for the new consoles. just because the physical pieces of a console cost X and they sell it for X+$25 does not mean they are "making" $25 per console.

That's a great point, and there's a direct correlation between the size of a company and the amount of money they waste by tertiary/double/triple spending. I've worked in some of the largest corporations in the world, Microsoft, Halliburton, Shell, BP, Koch Industries, and the way they spend money is absolutely ludicrous. I would expect that Sony, despite being Japanese, also isn't the most efficient outfit there is.

Still, I see a certain attitude with US-based corporations that I don't see with the foreign equivalents.

Some examples :

On a trip to Afghanistan to inspect a facility related to my particular field of work, I was given THREE assistants, merely to 'take notes and provide assistance with measurements'. Now one was a translator, but the other two were completely superfluous. I could have easily done the job without a translator to begin with. We were also given ten days to do about 10 hours of actual work, paid exorbitant sums for food/fuel/transport/security, and so on. Only to find out that this particular assignment was for a facility being demolished in less than 6 months. So : spend gigantic amount of money to send me and a team over there, waste money left and right, and then start a project with a 4 month lead time due to supply chain logistics and permits/security waits, all for something redundant that was going to be destroyed after a few weeks of testing, not even actual operational viability. I did some napkin math on it, and I estimated the cost of this was around 55 million dollars.

Microsoft is less wasteful, but I still saw TONS of waste. The worst thing about Microsoft was the very poor internal communication structure. Microsoft is a very closed environment to work within. I found it easier to communicate in some respects from outside the company into various departments that were relevant to my work than from within my particular department.

And then you get to the actual R&D spending. If you saw half of the stuff they spent money on designing/building/testing/discarding it would shock you. Replete with sending people on travel assignments constantly for things that should just be done via Skype.
 

mizzou

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2008
9,734
54
91
unfortunately for microsoft, the overclock news could backfire on them. Anyone in PC Gaming can understand that all yields are not made equal, some won't want to OC at all.

It's not a huge OC, but unless they were extremely conservative on the MHz rating (which I doubt...) they are probably going for the max - safe OC rating.

I've had several video cards that I max-safe OC'd and it still resulted in crashes, artifacts, etc., unless it was not on the STOCK settings.

Microsoft does not have a history of making sound judgments when it comes to hardware performance.

Imagine the bad PR they get if they say, "Here's a system update backing the Mhz to 800MHz... sorry dudes"
 

Bill Brasky

Diamond Member
May 18, 2006
4,324
1
0
It's not a huge OC, but unless they were extremely conservative on the MHz rating (which I doubt...) they are probably going for the max - safe OC rating.

Actually, I read exactly that. MS was too conservative with the clockspeed on the original design, and they did so on purpose as a another RROD preventative measure.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
unfortunately for microsoft, the overclock news could backfire on them. Anyone in PC Gaming can understand that all yields are not made equal, some won't want to OC at all.

It's not a huge OC, but unless they were extremely conservative on the MHz rating (which I doubt...) they are probably going for the max - safe OC rating.

I've had several video cards that I max-safe OC'd and it still resulted in crashes, artifacts, etc., unless it was not on the STOCK settings.

Microsoft does not have a history of making sound judgments when it comes to hardware performance.

Imagine the bad PR they get if they say, "Here's a system update backing the Mhz to 800MHz... sorry dudes"
Except your "max safe OC" was tested by you, not an expensive calibration machine. Don't you think they have one of those? Same as Intel, AMD, NVIDIA? They don't just run 3DMark and call it a day.
 
Oct 19, 2000
17,860
4
81
unfortunately for microsoft, the overclock news could backfire on them. Anyone in PC Gaming can understand that all yields are not made equal, some won't want to OC at all.

It's not a huge OC, but unless they were extremely conservative on the MHz rating (which I doubt...) they are probably going for the max - safe OC rating.

I've had several video cards that I max-safe OC'd and it still resulted in crashes, artifacts, etc., unless it was not on the STOCK settings.

Microsoft does not have a history of making sound judgments when it comes to hardware performance.

Imagine the bad PR they get if they say, "Here's a system update backing the Mhz to 800MHz... sorry dudes"

The actual true answer here is that a bump in clock will not matter in the slightest. This will not sway the opinion of anyone. Nobody will suddenly jump on the X1 wagon because of this, nobody will jump off. These are consoles, nobody cares about GPU/CPU clock speeds except those arguing on the internet trying to find that one next thing to prove why their chosen console will be the best.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
unfortunately for microsoft, the overclock news could backfire on them. Anyone in PC Gaming can understand that all yields are not made equal, some won't want to OC at all.

It's not a huge OC, but unless they were extremely conservative on the MHz rating (which I doubt...) they are probably going for the max - safe OC rating.

I've had several video cards that I max-safe OC'd and it still resulted in crashes, artifacts, etc., unless it was not on the STOCK settings.

Microsoft does not have a history of making sound judgments when it comes to hardware performance.

Imagine the bad PR they get if they say, "Here's a system update backing the Mhz to 800MHz... sorry dudes"

Actually no, if you think about it this way.

PS4 and XB1 use the same chip from AMD. There were rumors of Microsoft under clocking it. The news that they raised the clock speed only means they are running it at it's intended speed. They didn't say they are overclocking it at all.
 

badb0y

Diamond Member
Feb 22, 2010
4,015
30
91
Yes it is. The original Kinect had an estimated cost of $56. So while the newer one may be better, prices have also fallen. So I'd guess the new one is going to end up cheaper to build than the original.

A confirmed Xbox One Developer did an AMA a few weeks back and this is what he had to say about the Kinect:
Xbox One Dev said:
The majority of the masses care only about the console, except that the success of the Kinect carries much more weight to us. The sensor costs almost as much as the console to make.
http://www.reddit.com/r/xboxone/comments/1i71s5/i_am_an_xbox_one_dev_ask_me_almost_anything/
Looks like they put a lot of money into the new Kinect.
 
Oct 19, 2000
17,860
4
81
That's really hard to believe that the Kinect 2 cost almost as much to make the console, unless the R&D on it is so tremendously high. It seems to me that they had such a solid base with the first that adding on higher-res sensors and increased tracking fidelity would be slightly more than trivial. I say this without knowing anything about anything and I'm obviously wrong.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
One interesting thing I saw about how the controller will pair up with the kinect sounds interesting.

Each controller uses a combination of invisible reflective technology and LEDs to send a patterned infrared signal to your console and Kinect sensor. Not only does this make pairing the devices seamless, but it enables Kinect to associate the controller with whoever is holding it. This introduces innovative experiences, such as player switching, where a split screen display can swap positions on the TV if users change seats on the couch.
 

HorsemanSix

Junior Member
Aug 3, 2013
11
0
0
That's really hard to believe that the Kinect 2 cost almost as much to make the console, unless the R&D on it is so tremendously high. It seems to me that they had such a solid base with the first that adding on higher-res sensors and increased tracking fidelity would be slightly more than trivial. I say this without knowing anything about anything and I'm obviously wrong.

You have to remember that it's not just R&D but materials. The original Kinect was severely stripped down from the original design specifications.

It now features 1080p over VGA, a standalone processor, much better optics, and more (I don't think everything has been released yet). All of this means that it will actually be more expensive than the original, not less.
 
Apr 20, 2008
10,067
990
126
Most of you are adults bickering about a video game console that hasn't even been released.

Just a dose of reality here.
 

digiram

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2004
3,991
172
106
Most of you are adults bickering about a video game console that hasn't even been released.

Just a dose of reality here.

I'm sure we've all been bickering since the days of Nintendo vs Sega, Atari vs. Intellivision, etc... lol
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
126
Every YouTube video is 30fps? That is ultimately where these videos would end up, right?

Or other sites like it. 720p30 is perfectly fine for streaming videos. Plus it means the file sizes it stores on your hard drive won't be huge since basically every game is going to be installed now so we'll definitely need the room.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
Or other sites like it. 720p30 is perfectly fine for streaming videos. Plus it means the file sizes it stores on your hard drive won't be huge since basically every game is going to be installed now so we'll definitely need the room.

They said it is going to be saved to the cloud. So, I am not sure if that means it won't be available offline or not.
 
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