The Trump Tariffs thread

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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,089
6,606
126
Why do you hard-core liberals so quickly turn to personal insults and attacks? Is it because you cant cobble together a coherent logical argument? All the Democratic faithful here have outed themselves by refusing to acknowledge even a single complaint about WHY their beloved chosen party has become irrelevant to the point that a megalomaniac like Trump blew them out of the water in a landslide vote. I have many, many, many times criticized Trump and his administration in this thread, yet I mention a few valid criticisms of the Democrats and you attack like wolves, respond with ridiculous comebacks like Biden was harder on illegal immigration than Trump, etc, etc.

Its just shameful dudes. Your refusal to criticize anything in your chosen party shows your true colors-- if you fit that bill, you are no better than the MAGAts that are calling to have judges removed because they are trying to uphold the law and thus dont conform to Trumps whims and desires.
Please don't speak for all the liberals here. There are many here that are flipped-out enraged by what in their opinion is poor messaging and lack of political courage on the part of Democrats. Also, while you are accurately describing the reactions of many to your post as being insults and attacks, you are engaged in the same blame game when you criticize them for that. You are, in my opinion, just another sleeping machine blaming other sleeping machines for the misery that is inevitable to being asleep to reality. There is nobody you can blame for anything because no one can be other than the level of conscious they have achieved via active effort against their egos can permit. Everybody not so involved is actively engaging is defensive rationalizations that protect their fragile egos, you included if you will allow me to say so. Carry on and good luck!
 

uclaLabrat

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2007
5,628
3,036
136
By the way as I don’t let him wriggle away @Josh128 will most likely get angrier and angrier and include more and more insults.

This is because, again, he wanted a fight and not a debate.

I'm not sure they want a fight, they just have one dimensional understanding of the topic and they get angry when you ask for more depth because they literally don't understand the question.

I used to be the same way when I was in Jr high and the math teacher told me to show my work. I didn't know how because there wasn't any depth or deliberation to my process.

A lot (most/all) of conservatives have a truly superficial understanding (or none at all) of issues and it shows. Asking them to debate is like bringing a rubber band to thermonuclear war.
 
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VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
7,511
9,468
136
It's clear Trump thinks if we don't trade with nations we don't lose anything. I think he literally imagines factories popping up overnight like in a computer game simulation. And people flocking to work repetitive mind numbing jobs.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,246
53,766
136
Why cant you discuss without shamelessly lying and misrepresenting my stance and what Ive said?

Unions have pros and cons, but from the very beginning of their rise had massive corruption (see the Teamsters) and overstepped what they were intended for and so came the Taft-Hartley act, which was objectively needed to curb their power. That they politically aligned themselves early on with the Democrats early on is a matter of fact, but the fact that the majority of them are currently in favor of Trumps tariffs flies right in your face when you come here and attack me for calling them out on a thread that was made to lambast those same tariffs.

Trans people existing has nothing to do with Democrats, Democrats are actually hurting public perception of trans people by appearing to support them in extremely unpopular and illogical agendas, such as shaming people who refuse to refer to them using improper pronouns or competing in sport against the opposite gender that they were assigned at birth. Instead of coddling and spoonfeeding bad takes as good ideas to them, they could actually be helping them with realistic solutions, but they dont.

Immigrants?? There is no problem with immigrants, there is a problem with illegal immigrants. Stop pretending they are the same. This country was literally founded by illegal immigrants who took by force the lands from the native Americans and nearly exterminated all of them. Do you think that was just?? Through the lens of history, if the natives had been more than just tribes, but a sovereign nation, what happened beyond any doubt is that illegal immigrants forced their way in, took over, and nearly destroyed them. Whats done is done-- and some small reparations have been made to the natives, which does nothing to justify it. Now, the US is indeed a sovereign nation, with laws, and allowing mass illegal, unauthorized entry into the country without due process is untenable and dangerous, similarly to how it was 400 years ago.

There is no issue with immigrants who come into the country legally and through the proper channels, stop making it appear to be as such.
Sure is odd how you, as someone who says they want to debate, has plenty of time to write angry screeds but no time to actually back up his claims.

This is of course because as I predicted you want to argue, not debate.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,246
53,766
136
I'm not sure they want a fight, they just have one dimensional understanding of the topic and they get angry when you ask for more depth because they literally don't understand the question.

I used to be the same way when I was in Jr high and the math teacher told me to show my work. I didn't know how because there wasn't any depth or deliberation to my process.

A lot (most/all) of conservatives have a truly superficial understanding (or none at all) of issues and it shows. Asking them to debate is like bringing a rubber band to thermonuclear war.
Maybe I’m crazy but I don’t think ‘you said X so what evidence do you have for X’ is some higher level thinking.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,589
30,849
146
Imagine thinking that democrats are a leftist party, or anywhere close to leftist.

Then imagine that you spending the majority of your day thinking about children's genitals is a valid argument for projecting those thoughts onto your perceived enemies, and that your work in thinking about their genitals is somehow protecting all the children

Now imagine that presenting these bizarre thoughts as rational criticisms against a political party that is in no way involved in those policies is what a normal adult does in a discussion about orange man's tariffs.
 

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
4,872
6,398
136
Welp we are in finding out stage on US Canada trade relations.


Trump seems oblivious to the importance of goodwill. Probably because he's psychopath, and such things just don't register for him. He only sees power based, or transaction based factors.

I know we are having boom for local booze production as US booze has been removed from shelves, or identified. It's not like we need US booze.

But tons of Canadians grew up watching US beer ads and drank Budweiser or Coors... without concern because the USA was like family.

That goodwill has been erased and the rift could last a generation.

I'm taking it a step further than most people. I won't even drink Molson anymore (The Canadian brand I drank most of my life), because Molson merged with Coors and is now headquartered in Chicago. I'd only drink Molson again, is if Molson was divested, listed on a Canadian stock exchange, and production was Canadian. IOW completely Canadian.

Drink a local microbrew, or Moosehead if you want a bottled brand. No more US beers here.

The problem for the USA is even if/when tariffs get eliminated, the trust is broken, and the goal will remain to diversify away from an untrustworthy partner.

USA has gone from family, to backstabber. Goodwill was so strong that buying US products was almost as good as buying Canadian products.

Now it's the opposite, US products are the last choice. Canada first, EU second, Korea, etc... Even China before USA. Heck I'd buy Russian booze before USA's.

Even if/when USA returns to a sane administration, the long term damage to goodwill will linger for a long, long time.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,246
53,766
136
Trump seems oblivious to the importance of goodwill. Probably because he's psychopath, and such things just don't register for him. He only sees power based, or transaction based factors.

I know we are having boom for local booze production as US booze has been removed from shelves, or identified. It's not like we need US booze.

But tons of Canadians grew up watching US beer ads and drank Budweiser or Coors... without concern because the USA was like family.

That goodwill has been erased and the rift could last a generation.

I'm taking it a step further than most people. I won't even drink Molson anymore (The Canadian brand I drank most of my life), because Molson merged with Coors and is now headquartered in Chicago. I'd only drink Molson again, is if Molson was divested, listed on a Canadian stock exchange, and production was Canadian. IOW completely Canadian.

Drink a local microbrew, or Moosehead if you want a bottled brand. No more US beers here.

The problem for the USA is even if/when tariffs get eliminated, the trust is broken, and the goal will remain to diversify away from an untrustworthy partner.

USA has gone from family, to backstabber. Goodwill was so strong that buying US products was almost as good as buying Canadian products.

Now it's the opposite, US products are the last choice. Canada first, EU second, Korea, etc... Even China before USA. Heck I'd buy Russian booze before USA's.

Even if/when USA returns to a sane administration, the long term damage to goodwill will linger for a long, long time.
This is what I keep telling people. A lot of the damage is done because now nobody trusts the US to make credible commitments. There’s no enforcement authority for international relations so trust is vital.
 
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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
51,205
43,368
136
Ford begins passing on the Trump Tax to consumers.

Exclusive: Ford hikes prices on Mexico-produced models, citing tariffs

DETROIT, May 7 (Reuters) - Ford Motor (F.N), opens new tab is hiking prices on three of its Mexico-produced models effective May 2, becoming one of the first major automakers to adjust sticker prices following U.S. President Donald Trump's tariffs.
Prices on the Mustang Mach-E electric SUV, Maverick pickup and Bronco Sport will increase by as much as $2,000 on some models, according to a notice sent to dealers reviewed by Reuters.
 

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
4,872
6,398
136
This is what I keep telling people. A lot of the damage is done because now nobody trusts the US to make credible commitments. There’s no enforcement authority for international relations so trust is vital.

Also it's not just Trump wanting a new deal he can take credit for.

Canada already has a major signed Trade Agreement with Trump from his last administration, proving he can't be trusted to live up to any "deal" he signs.
 
Jan 25, 2011
16,974
9,379
146
Also it's not just Trump wanting a new deal he can take credit for.

Canada already has a major signed Trade Agreement with Trump from his last administration, proving he can't be trusted to live up to any "deal" he signs.
This is what MAGA morons don't seem to understand. Why would anyone negotiate anything? It's worthless. At this point fuck the U.S. move forward without them and find ways to close the trade gaps.
 
Reactions: Indus

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
51,205
43,368
136
Also it's not just Trump wanting a new deal he can take credit for.

Canada already has a major signed Trade Agreement with Trump from his last administration, proving he can't be trusted to live up to any "deal" he signs.

This is the core problem now. Any "agreement" with Trump isn't worth the paper it's written on and he will discard it at any time he feels like it because he is not bound by his word. As such countries are not really interested in making major, potentially politically damaging, concessions.
 
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thilanliyan

Lifer
Jun 21, 2005
12,013
2,233
126
Yeah exactly, what Trump has done is ensure the world looks for more reliable partners, making the US poorer in the process. Those people who voted for Trump will hopefully face the consequences of their vote.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,246
53,766
136
Also it's not just Trump wanting a new deal he can take credit for.

Canada already has a major signed Trade Agreement with Trump from his last administration, proving he can't be trusted to live up to any "deal" he signs.
That’s what I was thinking of but this isn’t even primarily about Trump. It also means any deal his successors sign isn’t worth the paper it’s written on either as a single person can tear them up whenever they want.

The only way I can see some restoration of US credibility would be for Trump to be removed and for Congress to take tariff authority away from the President. I don’t see either of those happening any time soon.
 

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
4,872
6,398
136
The only way I can see some restoration of US credibility would be for Trump to be removed and for Congress to take tariff authority away from the President. I don’t see either of those happening any time soon.

I'm not an expert, but I'm under the impression that he doesn't have that authority in the first place. He's essentially just hit on the strategy of issuing "Emergency" Executive Orders for everything.

He's assumed dictatorial powers he doesn't legitimately have, and he really isn't facing the pushback he should be getting.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,246
53,766
136
I'm not an expert, but I'm under the impression that he doesn't have that authority in the first place. He's essentially just hit on the strategy of issuing "Emergency" Executive Orders for everything.

He's assumed dictatorial powers he doesn't legitimately have, and he really isn't facing the pushback he should be getting.
He does have that authority because Congress let the president decide what an emergency was.

Trump is breaking the law in a lot of other ways but this one he actually has that authority on. The mistake was that Congress thought the president would act in good faith as to what constituted an emergency and, well, he didn't.
 

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
4,872
6,398
136
He does have that authority because Congress let the president decide what an emergency was.

Trump is breaking the law in a lot of other ways but this one he actually has that authority on. The mistake was that Congress thought the president would act in good faith as to what constituted an emergency and, well, he didn't.

They system was never really setup to have a completely bad faith actor as POTUS.
 
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Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
14,644
10,242
136
They system was never really setup to have a completely bad faith actor as POTUS.
But the dems will defend the system as fine, rather than building one to make sure the abuses don't happen.

That's how we're in this mess.. the dems are culpable as the useful idiots!
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
98,878
17,336
126
That’s what I was thinking of but this isn’t even primarily about Trump. It also means any deal his successors sign isn’t worth the paper it’s written on either as a single person can tear them up whenever they want.

The only way I can see some restoration of US credibility would be for Trump to be removed and for Congress to take tariff authority away from the President. I don’t see either of those happening any time soon.
US president has no tariff authority. The US Congress is derelict in its oversight duty.
 
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