The Trump Tariffs thread

[K1052]

US president has no tariff authority. The US Congress is derelict in its oversight duty.

Arguably derelict in basically all of their constitutional duties.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

US president has no tariff authority. The US Congress is derelict in its oversight duty.

The IEEPA says differently. If he claims an emergency, which he has, he has full authority. Congress needs to take that back.

 

[sdifox]

The IEEPA says differently. If he claims an emergency, which he has, he has full authority. Congress needs to take that back.

The Congress can invalidate the emergency.

 

[fskimospy]

US president has no tariff authority. The US Congress is derelict in its oversight duty.

This is not true. Congress granted the president tariff authority if he declared an emergency first.

The issue is that Congress expected the president to use this only for actual emergencies and instead he just declared everything an emergency. Congress could cancel those emergencies and/or remove the power entirely but they haven't.

 

[brycejones]

The Congress can invalidate the emergency.

Correct, that they haven’t is a failure at the congressional level.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

The Congress can invalidate the emergency.

Correct, they won't, but they need to. But he does have tariff authority as long as they don't.

 

[Brainonska511]

Arguably derelict in basically all of their constitutional duties.

But voting is hard and we need to protect our caucus members from "difficult" votes.

 

[pmv]

Correct, that they haven’t is a failure at the congressional level.

Surely the heart of the problem is that the legislature is paralysed by being so divided (and divided in the sense that roughly half of it is batshit crazy).. And that has come about because the allocation of seats in it is so skewed, because, ultimately, of that 'two senators per state' rule (a similar problem also applies, to a lesser degree, to allocation of Congress seats). If Congress and the Senate more accurately represented the actual distribution of votes, it wouldn't be so deadlocked into immobility, and the Presidency wouldn't be able to grab power so easily.

The whole system is fundamentally dysfunctional.

 

[sdifox]

The US Congress was supposed to bitch slap Trump for wanton declaration of Emergency thus failing in its oversight duty. Trump slapping duties globally was the consequence of US Congress failure.

 

[fskimospy]

Surely the heart of the problem is that the legislature is paralysed by being so divided (and divided in the sense that roughly half of it is batshit crazy).. And that has come about because the allocation of seats in it is so skewed, because, ultimately, of that 'two senators per state' rule (a similar problem also applies, to a lesser degree, to allocation of Congress seats). If Congress and the Senate more accurately represented the actual distribution of votes, it wouldn't be so deadlocked into immobility, and the Presidency wouldn't be able to grab power so easily.

The whole system is fundamentally dysfunctional.

As far as the US House goes some of the incredibly egregious gerrymanders have been eliminated and really in 2024 the distribution of seats basically mirrored the popular vote. (Democrats got 47.2% of the vote and 47.3% of the seats.)

The Senate is a problem though, yes. That's why we should just create a bunch of new states - it is the tried and true method to rebalance the Senate. People today act like doing this would be some grave political breach or whatever but it's literally the reason why there are two Dakotas. Make California like three states (you could do this and keep them all blue). Make DC a state, etc. You can balance out the Senate pretty fast this way.

 

[Panino Manino]

Can't link because don't know the link, but apparently there's a new The Economist article and it's incredible. Seeing people mention it and it boils down to "this Chinese scheme of reinvesting in their economy instead of letting wealth concentrate in the pockets of 20 dudes".




Social Security is a "state scheme" that gig firms are doing just to "please the state".

 

[Josh128]

Please don't speak for all the liberals here. There are many here that are flipped-out enraged by what in their opinion is poor messaging and lack of political courage on the part of Democrats. Also, while you are accurately describing the reactions of many to your post as being insults and attacks, you are engaged in the same blame game when you criticize them for that. You are, in my opinion, just another sleeping machine blaming other sleeping machines for the misery that is inevitable to being asleep to reality. There is nobody you can blame for anything because no one can be other than the level of conscious they have achieved via active effort against their egos can permit. Everybody not so involved is actively engaging is defensive rationalizations that protect their fragile egos, you included if you will allow me to say so. Carry on and good luck!

Im not, and didnt intend for it to be interpreted that way. I know as well as anyone that trying to paint everyone with the same brush is a fools errand. Im referring to the hardcore Democratic supporters that refuse to criticize or acknowledge any valid criticism of the party in question, and would rather hurl personal insults instead. I respectfully disagree that calling out personal insults against me is on the same level as hurling the personal insult simply because I criticize something you might believe strongly in.

I dont believe its controversial to say that both parties have both good ideas and bad. I do believe that anyone who refuses to acknowledge any good or any bad from either party is being willfully ignorant, regardless of official party affiliation.

 

[Heartbreaker]

Im not, and didnt intend for it to be interpreted that way. I know as well as anyone that trying to paint everyone with the same brush is a fools errand. Im referring to the hardcore Democratic supporters that refuse to criticize or acknowledge any valid criticism of the party in question, and would rather hurl personal insults instead. I respectfully disagree that calling out personal insults against me is on the same level as hurling the personal insult simply because I criticize something you might believe strongly in.

This is BS. You haven't made any real criticisms. You repeated far right wing talking points. You were repeatedly (probably a dozen times or more) asked for some evidence to back your claims and failed to deliver.

I dont believe its controversial to say that both parties have both good ideas and bad. I do believe that anyone who refuses to acknowledge any good or any bad from either party is being willfully ignorant, regardless of official party affiliation.

With an audience that contains any critical thinkers, there is just about ZERO patience for bothsidesism. This goes double when the presenter is clearly from one extreme end of that scale.

 

[fskimospy]

This is BS. You haven't made any real criticisms. You repeated far right wing talking points. You were repeatedly (probably a dozen times or more) asked for some evidence to back your claims and failed to deliver.



With an audience that contains any critical thinkers, there is just about ZERO patience for bothsidesism. This goes double when the presenter is clearly from one extreme end of that scale.

As I predicted the 'debate me, you cowards!' people have no actual interest in debate. As soon as you try it they get mad and/or run away.

 

[Roger Wilco]

China’s deflation issues are going to get worse.

China's economy on cusp of a deflationary death spiral - Asia Times

China is sliding deeper into economic weakness that is being worsened by its response to external shocks. Tariffs are drying up international demand

asiatimes.com

“Redirecting unsold exports to domestic platforms at steep discounts might appear clever in the short term. But when that becomes a strategy, it turns into a liability. It breaks pricing power across sectors, weakens earnings and sets the stage for another round of cost cuts.”

 

[cytg111]

Can't link because don't know the link, but apparently there's a new The Economist article and it's incredible. Seeing people mention it and it boils down to "this Chinese scheme of reinvesting in their economy instead of letting wealth concentrate in the pockets of 20 dudes".

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Social Security is a "state scheme" that gig firms are doing just to "please the state".

View attachment 123385

In some sense you could argue that Scandinavian and European countries have done the same... Free education and free healthcare is sort of the state subsidizing the workforce isnt it?
I mean free education, how can you compete with that??

 

[LurchFrinky]

I dont believe its controversial to say that both parties have both good ideas and bad. I do believe that anyone who refuses to acknowledge any good or any bad from either party is being willfully ignorant, regardless of official party affiliation.

While historically true, I don't think the Republican party has had any good ideas for about a decade now. I have seen them pass tax cuts for the wealthy, and I have seen them slow or stop any ideas from the opposition. They have no ideas on immigration other than rounding up and shipping off. Their ideas on DEI, trans rights, voting rights, etc., are all bad.
I have no party affiliation, and I take offense to your claim of my being willfully ignorant.

 

[fskimospy]

While historically true, I don't think the Republican party has had any good ideas for about a decade now. I have seen them pass tax cuts for the wealthy, and I have seen them slow or stop any ideas from the opposition. They have no ideas on immigration other than rounding up and shipping off. Their ideas on DEI, trans rights, voting rights, etc., are all bad.
I have no party affiliation, and I take offense to your claim of my being willfully ignorant.

Importantly, multiple bills have been agreed upon by a bipartisan group of Senators and Republicans in the House tanked those bills both times. So not only do they have no ideas on immigration, they actively inhibit others from trying to fix the problem. This is because they like immigration as an election issue.

 

[nakedfrog]

Im not, and didnt intend for it to be interpreted that way. I know as well as anyone that trying to paint everyone with the same brush is a fools errand. Im referring to the hardcore Democratic supporters that refuse to criticize or acknowledge any valid criticism of the party in question, and would rather hurl personal insults instead. I respectfully disagree that calling out personal insults against me is on the same level as hurling the personal insult simply because I criticize something you might believe strongly in.

I dont believe its controversial to say that both parties have both good ideas and bad. I do believe that anyone who refuses to acknowledge any good or any bad from either party is being willfully ignorant, regardless of official party affiliation.

Can you provide any actual policy/legislation from the Republicans in the past decade that you believe is good? Not just "ideas", actual policy/legislation.

 

[Moonbeam]

Im not, and didnt intend for it to be interpreted that way. I know as well as anyone that trying to paint everyone with the same brush is a fools errand. Im referring to the hardcore Democratic supporters that refuse to criticize or acknowledge any valid criticism of the party in question, and would rather hurl personal insults instead. I respectfully disagree that calling out personal insults against me is on the same level as hurling the personal insult simply because I criticize something you might believe strongly in.

I dont believe its controversial to say that both parties have both good ideas and bad. I do believe that anyone who refuses to acknowledge any good or any bad from either party is being willfully ignorant, regardless of official party affiliation.

Yes and I am saying that what you call willful isn’t willful at all.

You have taken the facts of how people act and in particular here, partisan political reactions in my opinion, and equated the negative implications of those facts, also factually real, and again in my opinion, as if it’s a fault of the people who do this rather than a mechanical reaction arising unconsciously and manifesting in their behavior completely out of conscious control and for the reason, I suggest, because they do not have the conscious awareness to be able to do so.

I suggest further that they live in a world of blaming you and that by implication assuming it is willful are actually blaming them in turn.

I am saying you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink. You are beating a dead horse.

I am not blaming you for this. I am saying that all so called willful ignorance is unconsciously motivated by feelings of guilt and inferiority that were buried deep in the unconscious in order to survive as children where a conscious feeling of such pain wouldhave been impossible to survive. We survived by building a wall of ego, by conforming to the whatever expectations our general culture as expressed by our parents and guardians deemed worthy of respect, varied externalities of no real use in repairing the damage done and concealed, but exalted by our egos.

People exist behind walls of denial they done see they have and are fiercely defensive in maintaining the sacredness of what uselessly makes them feel good and no longer need to survive but hold on dearly to to keep from remembering their pain.

This is how I see it. If I am right it would be absurd if I expect you to agree. I express myself because we never know all the ramifications of things.

When I was a young boy I stood on my front porch and shot people driving by with my cap gun. One man visibly threw himself over his steering wheel. He acknowledged that I exist. I wish I could thank him for that gift.

 

[SMOGZINN]

The Congress can invalidate the emergency.

The real problem is that Congress does not want to. They don't want to be responsible for anything and have been happily abdicating their powers to others for nearly half a century now.

The next time Democrats get power they could fix a lot of these problems with a few simple changes, starting with a bill that simply states that only Congress can declare an emergency, and any previous bills that say otherwise are changed to say 'A emergency as declared by vote of Congress' or something similar, in that same bill you state that an emergency must be re-established ever year or it automatically ends.

It won't fix all the problems, but many of them revolve around Congress abdicating their powers so they don't have to make hard decisions.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

The real problem is that Congress does not want to. They don't want to be responsible for anything and have been happily abdicating their powers to others for nearly half a century now.

The next time Democrats get power they could fix a lot of these problems with a few simple changes, starting with a bill that simply states that only Congress can declare an emergency, and any previous bills that say otherwise are changed to say 'A emergency as declared by vote of Congress' or something similar, in that same bill you state that an emergency must be re-established ever year or it automatically ends.

It won't fix all the problems, but many of them revolve around Congress abdicating their powers so they don't have to make hard decisions.

But then they’d have to make the hard decisions again. They prefer somebody else to make the hard decisions, particularly the unpopular decisions

 

[dainthomas]

The real problem is that Congress does not want to. They don't want to be responsible for anything and have been happily abdicating their powers to others for nearly half a century now.

The next time Democrats get power they could fix a lot of these problems with a few simple changes, starting with a bill that simply states that only Congress can declare an emergency, and any previous bills that say otherwise are changed to say 'A emergency as declared by vote of Congress' or something similar, in that same bill you state that an emergency must be re-established ever year or it automatically ends.

It won't fix all the problems, but many of them revolve around Congress abdicating their powers so they don't have to make hard decisions.

That's exactly why the Senate will never get rid of the filibuster. It's a "get out of work free" card, and when they don't get some completely arbitrary supermajority to do literally anything they all just shrug their shoulders like "what can ya do?"

 

[Heartbreaker]

That's exactly why the Senate will never get rid of the filibuster. It's a "get out of work free" card, and when they don't get some completely arbitrary supermajority to do literally anything they all just shrug their shoulders like "what can ya do?"

I wouldn't be surprised if the Republicans found a way to get rid of it, if they were actually trying to govern by passing legislation.

But since they can apparently govern by Presidential Decree (EOs), they don't really need to worry about it.

 

[biostud]

3. Again, I dont think you will find anyone here in support of illegals, US Europe or anywhere. That being said, how is illegals obstructing your day to day for that to be in your top 3?

Probably eating his cats and dogs