This makes zero sense... rant

[MtnMan]

Actually I think it is a ploy (or worse) to get you to take the car to the dealership for over priced diagnostics and repair of what is really a common occurrence.

Wife has a 2013 Toyota RAV4 Limited. Nice little SUV, versatile, comfortable, nice appointments, AWD, etc., work really well in snow in the mountains.

Due to COVID stay at home restrictions, plus we are vulnerable population, it doesn't get driven much. She was going to an appointment yesterday, and it wouldn't start. I ended up taking her, as I have a straight drive vehicle, which she refused to drive. Anywho... I trouble shot it when we got home;
Won't start, clicks, instrument cluster lights flash. Assumption battery down due to not being driven in weeks.
Put it on the charger for 2 hours
Started fine, except:

1. Check Engine Light is on
2. AWD light is on
3. VSC (vehicle stability control) light is on.

Took it for a drive, ran fine, lights still still on. Turned off, restarted, no change.

The problem?

Spoiler

the problem is that the battery needed replacing, even though it was now charged and would start the car. It was 7 year old, so...
Why the hell this cryptic lights vs. not just turn the battery light on? Oh yes, you need to go spend hundreds of dollars at the dealership service department, in addition to overpriced parts, and 2 hour labor minimum at least.
However a Google search allowed me to avoid this, not that I found anything 'official' what the lights indicated, but Toyota forums where people had posted their experience with these symptoms and the solution, replace the battery.
Went to Sam's and picked up a battery (about $80 cheaper there than any parts place), installed and the issue is resolved.

PS I will NEVER take a vehicle to a dealership for anything that is no warranty or recall work.

 

[thedarkwolf]

The "battery" light doesn't actually show you if the battery is dead, it shows if the alternator is charging. Just had to put a battery in my 13 ford two weeks ago.

 

[Torn Mind]

Sam's Club Duracell are East Penn made, which is good.

However, if your area has some local suppliers, those guys distribute Deka batteries directly.

 

[MtnMan]

The "battery" light doesn't actually show you if the battery is dead, it shows if the alternator is charging. Just had to put a battery in my 13 ford two weeks ago.

Did your ford come up with any cryptic lights on the dash?

it could do both, vs. the secret decoder ring needed for CE, AWD, VSC combo.
Ah yes, trip to the dealer $ervice dept.

 

[DooKey]

The more these cars turn to computers the more they are vulnerable to bad batteries. Even if the alternator works they tend to throw codes if the battery is bad.

I recommend a battery tender for any car that isn't going to be run for more than a week. Cheap insurance for your battery.

 

[nakedfrog]

One of the most annoying "features"(?) to me about my 2006 Subaru was that any time the Check Engine Light was on, it turned on other lights too. And made the cruise control light flash for extra annoyance.

 

[jlee]

Did your ford come up with any cryptic lights on the dash?

it could do both, vs. the secret decoder ring needed for CE, AWD, VSC combo.
Ah yes, trip to the dealer $ervice dept.

Or buy a Techstream cable and read the codes yourself

How-To: TechStream In 5 Minutes

Getting Techstream up and running can be a bit of a pain. Hopefully this helps someone get started quickly. Step 1: Purchase an OBD-II / Mini-VCI interface. One option: - Mini VCI J2534 16Pin OBD2 Diagnostic Cable For Toyota Lexus TIS Tech Car Scanner | eBay -...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[MtnMan]

Or buy a Techstream cable and read the codes yourself

Clearly you misread my question, asking if his Ford threw odd dash lights due to a weak battery.

 

[thedarkwolf]

The ford showed no dash lights at all. It just started sounding weak during the end of last winter but then it became spring and warmer and the battery was happier so I pushed my luck through the summer. Then I noticed the battery was getting weak again and decided it could make it till the weekend when I have more time to deal with it, I didn't make it. I had to get jumped by a buddy when we finished a mountain bike ride and went to buy a new battery.

There isn't really a good way for the car to self check the battery. It is kind of one of those things you either have to do yourself or better yet take it to an auto parts store and have them test the cold cranking amps.

 

[MtnMan]

The ford showed no dash lights at all. It just started sounding weak during the end of last winter but then it became spring and warmer and the battery was happier so I pushed my luck through the summer. Then I noticed the battery was getting weak again and decided it could make it till the weekend when I have more time to deal with it, I didn't make it. I had to get jumped by a buddy when we finished a mountain bike ride and went to buy a new battery.

There isn't really a good way for the car to self check the battery. It is kind of one of those things you either have to do yourself or better yet take it to an auto parts store and have them test the cold cranking amps.

Similiar with my 2000 diesel Jetta. Being diesel it has a 920 cranking amp battery. Got thru a winter, but the next winter said 'it's time'. No lights, just slow cranking, to the point it wouldn't. Later when it was 50 outside, it cranked.

 

[Paperdoc]

My suspicion is that, because the battery basically went so low its output dropped to zero when you tried to start it up, the car's computer did a "cold reset" when power was restored. That process certainly set the Check Engine light, which is just a VERY general hint that there is SOME warning contained in the computer's records. That is when you are supposed to go to a garage and pay them to read your OBDII codes and provide a diagnosis and proposed repair. Cheapest you are likely to get if the codes indicate no real problem and just clear them out, is about $20.

You can buy your own OBDII code reader in an auto shop - typically $80 to $300 depending on how fancy - and read your own codes - every car today has the same easily-reached connector you plug into - and it will give a brief description of what each code means. I have an alternative I like. For about $30 I bought a small unit that plugs into the connector and communicates by Bluetooth technology with my smart phone. It gets power from the socket, and only can talk to your car's computer and forward code numbers to your phone. Then for $5 more I downloaded an app called Torque which gets those codes, contacts a free website to decipher what they mean and display the explanation. (I use my home WiFi for this to avoid paying data charges.) You can set up Torque with many pre-arranged displays of data or customize you own, and it can show you all kinds of stuff in real time as you work or even as you drive. It's amazing how much info your car computer keeps! And after you have read the results and decided what to do about them, you can tell the computer to clear them all out and cancel all the warning lights until a new problem comes up. Of course, this means you need some skill to decide what to do, or go to your mechanic is you need real help. Do NOT just cancel and ignore everything! When done, just unplug the reader unit and stack it until next time.

Before I look at your Spoiler, I'm going to guess. Both the other lights simply mean that, by default, those two items (4-wheel drive and vehicle stability control) were turned on and the light merely tells you that. If you normally do not use those features until needed, you might just turn them off.

OK, now I've read the Spoiler. I have a process for my own tests of a battery if I think it has become too weak to hold a charge and needs replacement. I also test for whether or not the charging system actually is charging the weak battery. And sometimes even those tests don't tell me the whole story. Fortunately, there is at least one garage here (part of a national chain) that will re-charge and then test your battery for free if you bring it in yourself - takes several hours to overnight. Now, then do have a bias - they want to sell you a new one - but generally I find they tell me the truth. Worst case I had recently was on a super-cold winter morning the car was dead, with no real voltage at the battery. Even after a day with my 10 Amp charger it was unchanged. Took it out for testing, and it obviously was so weak it froze solid inside over that cold night and was virtually useless even after thawing. It was a factory-original in a 5-year-old car.

 

[MtnMan]

I have had and OBDII reader for years. I didn't bother due to the AWD and VSC lights. I have a 10A charger, and charged the battery for a couple of hours, it started fine, and drove about 20 miles. Lights were solid. Later that day, started fine, lights still on.

Pulled the battery to turn in the core when I bought the new one, probably disconnected an hour or so. The instant it started with new battery the only light was the door open, because the door was open.

If the battery were only a year or two old, then testing would have been more appropriate. Besides that 'auto parts' place that will test the battery, wanted $80 more for the same battery that I picked up at Sam's

 

[Paperdoc]

Sounds just right to me. I agree, a 7-year-old battery should be suspected of weakness, and it was not worth it to pay $80 for a "free" test when you were already pretty sure of the result.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I just spent $140 -- $50 (with shipping/tax) on a part and $90 for mechanic labor -- to address a problem of an idiot light which is not supposed to come on very often, and is supposed to stay off as long as there's gas in the tank.

It's a little gas-station fuel-pump icon and backup indicator to the regular (older vehicle) gas gauge.

I had already solved the problem -- mostly -- by replacing the gas-cap with a $12 aftermarket Stant unit.

But I still suspected that the Fuel-Pressure Control Valve (or FP Regulator) was old and not functioning "tip-top". And actually, I think I had bought the part before turning attention to the gas-cap. A general (reliable) on-line advisory suggested that "they become worn, spring gets weak [etc.] and they are easy to replace." It also said "some vehicles may require removal of an intake plenum . . " [translation: intake manifold or "common chamber"]. Because the item was on the forward side of the engine underneath the Ignition control module (easy to remove), I contemplated going forward to replace the FP regulator. As we are won't to do, I consulted the Factory Shop Manual by running a word search on "Fuel Pressure Control Valve". I was in a hurry. Maybe I was more stupid than usual that day. I just looked at the diagram, read through the steps in that sub-topic of the manual section, and assumed I could just remove it and replace it. It was actually part of a larger chapter that begins with removing the intake manifold. How stupid is that?

Then, I thought that the procedure gives steps for testing the new valve, and I don't have equipment to pressure test the fuel delivery system. So I thought to take the car to my mechanic, ask him to replace the FP regulator and test that the fuel-pump was operating within spec. This was the right decision to protect me from my mis-readings and wrong decisions. He confirmed that the FP valve could only be replaced by removing the intake manifold. I can say I spent $90 to protect myself from my own carelessness and obsessive worry about an idiot light. He also vouched that the unit was working properly, just based on his experience and observation -- without "pressure-testing" the unit.

Excluding my "Android Trooper Audio System makeover", I spent a total of $790 this year on the vehicle's maintenance -- $650 to replace the radiator and hoses (totally necessary) and the rear brake pads and shoes (the rear wheels have both). I have the FP control valve/regulator now in my box of new parts "yet to be installed" -- totaling maybe $150 accumulated over a few years.

To feel better, I recalculate what a monthly payment plus insurance would be on a new (or newer) vehicle of the same class, multiply it by 12 and grin while comparing to my maintenance costs plus fuck-ups for the year 2020.

Research skills, a decent set of tools and a searchable-PDF of the 2,000-page factory shop manual does not compensate for a mechanic's 35 years of experience and training. So, as Col. Slade said in "Scent of a Woman" -- "If you get tangled up, just Tango on . . . "

To further define the word "Stupid", however, check out the thread I'm about to post today -- "How Stupid is This? . . . "

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Just off top of my head, because I'm not familiar with these new-fangled vehicles.

Did you try (a) disconnecting the battery, (b) turning the ignition on, and (c) holding it in that position for maybe a minute -- then (d) reconnecting the battery?

I understand that this will clear the engine computer and reset everything. Can't hurt! You might try it! Advice coming from Rip-Van-Winkle who has been asleep to new-car developments for more than 20 years . . . .

 

[MtnMan]

Just off top of my head, because I'm not familiar with these new-fangled vehicles.

Did you try (a) disconnecting the battery, (b) turning the ignition on, and (c) holding it in that position for maybe a minute -- then (d) reconnecting the battery?

I understand that this will clear the engine computer and reset everything. Can't hurt! You might try it! Advice coming from Rip-Van-Winkle who has been asleep to new-car developments for more than 20 years . . . .

I thought about that, but the 'turn it on' is an challenge. It's one of those keyless start buttons. That thing can be a real pain in the butt, and really offers nothing in return. Was it really that much work to put the damn key and turn it? Then is it the vehicle battery or the fob battery that leaving you sitting. Been down that road also. Because it's "fancy" to have a button to start the car? I remember my dad had a car in the 50's with a "button" to start the car.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

Personally, I would buy a code reader and clear the codes and see if they came back.

 

[MtnMan]

Personally, I would buy a code reader and clear the codes and see if they came back.

I have a code reader, an if there had just been just a check engine light, that would be my first step.

 

[MtnMan]

Of course Toyota doesn't have a monopoly on screwy lights.

A burnt out tail light on my VW gave me a blinking glow plug light (it's a diesel)

 

[mindless1]

Clearly you misread my question, asking if his Ford threw odd dash lights due to a weak battery.

My oldest vehicle is a Ford and yes if the system voltage is low due to a drained battery, pulling the alternator voltage down too much (or if the alternator has failed) it can make all kinds of crazy lights and dinging buzzer and set diagnostic codes because the computer(s) aren't getting good data.

I'd hook up a scan tool, write down the codes then reset them and see if they come back, and leave the battery on the charger for longer before doing so unless, engine off for a few hours, it's staying pretty near 12.6V.