Do LEGAL immigrants have to have a certain level of ENGLISH COMPETENCY?
Is that a bad thing - that immigrants need to know some basic communication skills for the country they are immigrating to?
Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Originally posted by: Infidel
Immigrants these days are overly concerned with maintaining their identities and their cultures, not like the immigrants that founded this country and wanted to be Americans first and foremost.
Maybe the first immigrants wanted to be Americans first (I doubt it though, I think that they identified with their religion first and foremost just like a recent poll regarding American Christians claims that many, 40-50%, identify themselves as Christian before American). It's debatable if immigrants primarily considers themselves Americans first and foremost , the idea of them keeping any of their identities or culture is not new. Italians, Germans, Irish, etc. in the US still retain a lot of their culture.
The US does not have a single distinct culture. That's what happens when culture belongs to the people and not the government.
Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Originally posted by: Infidel
Immigrants these days are overly concerned with maintaining their identities and their cultures, not like the immigrants that founded this country and wanted to be Americans first and foremost.
Maybe the first immigrants wanted to be Americans first (I doubt it though, I think that they identified with their religion first and foremost just like a recent poll regarding American Christians claims that many, 40-50%, identify themselves as Christian before American). It's debatable if immigrants primarily considers themselves Americans first and foremost , the idea of them keeping any of their identities or culture is not new. Italians, Germans, Irish, etc. in the US still retain a lot of their culture.
The US does not have a single distinct culture. That's what happens when culture belongs to the people and not the government.
Thousands of immigrants come here legally every year. The vehicle for legal entry is there... many just make the choice that they don't want to wait their turn, and they enter illegally.
I'm tired of America being raped for her prosperity and not getting anything of value in return (value is subjective of course).
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: jrenz
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: feralkid
Got a vested interest in French politics, or do you just like to see immigrants' asses kicked?
Illegals breed criminals because they were criminals themselves
They need to leave
By that logic, we should deport jaywalkers. Do you have a better argument against illegal immigration than "it's illegal"?
That's a pretty flawed argument coming from somebody such as yourself... I am a little shocked. I didn't know deportation was a punishment for jaywalking first of all... and by YOUR logic, jaywalking is either as bad as illegally entering the country, or illegally entering the country is as harmless as jaywalking.
Edit: Would you say that dealing crack should be treated equal to speeding?
Not at all, but then, it wasn't me who suggested any sort of equality existed. I don't know where entering the country illegally lies on the scale of criminality, but your statement suggests it doesn't matter...anyone who breaks the law is a criminal, and criminals breed criminals, yadda, yadda, yadda, and if immigrants are criminals, they should be deported. By that logic, a LEGAL immigrant should be deported for breaking any law, no matter how trivial (remember, it makes them a criminal) and we should punish speeding exactly like we punish dealing crack.
OR we could take a more reasonable approach and judge criminal offenses based on their damage to society. Like, say, treat illegal immigration as a crime without demonizing illegal immigrants as being worse than Hitler because they broke the sacred law.
Edit: It might be helpful to note that I don't treat the law in general as the sacred cow a lot of my fellow citizens seem to feel it is. If something makes sense, I'm perfectly willing to follow the rules. If it violates my own personal sense of right and wrong, or just seems downright stupid, I'll probably do whatever the hell I feel like. This might seem pretty goofy to a lot of people, and maybe it is, but while there are lots of times in history where some more civil disobedience would have come in handy, there seem to be very few times when what a country REALLY needed was more slavish obedience to the law.
Originally posted by: Excelsior
So you think that all of those millions of immigrants who came to the US in the past just raped America for her prosperity? Surely whether they are labeled legal or illegal has little do with how much value they present.
Originally posted by: Socio
Originally posted by: Excelsior
So you think that all of those millions of immigrants who came to the US in the past just raped America for her prosperity? Surely whether they are labeled legal or illegal has little do with how much value they present.
A value?
Jeez wake up!
Illegal and a majority of legals are low wage workers, per head of household they pay in to the system on average $1,500 per year and take out of the system $17,000 to $19,000. In most cases they declare wages low enough with plenty of deductibles to not to pay income taxes at all. Plus just for filing the Tax Return, they gets an "earned income credit" of up to $3,200 free. So you add what wages he makes/declares + $17,000 to $19,000 in freebies, plus an "earned income credit" of up to $3,200 free they are netting $35,000 a year.
They are no value to anyone except the business owners who profit from them and that buck stops there. There is no such thing as cheap labor, there are no cheap goods because of illegal immigrants, any savings in wages go in to the pocket of the business owner period!
It would absolutely cost the US taxpayer less per year if they paid Americans $10.00+ an hour to do those same jobs the business owners would just not get the huge ill gotten profits they are used to.
So for crying out loud stop lying to yourself about immigration being a good thing because it is not unless it is 100% controlled where we let in only the best of the best, guaranteed not to be a burden on taxpayers not detriments by the millions!
They are no value to anyone except the business owners who profit from them and that buck stops there. There is no such thing as cheap labor, there are no cheap goods because of illegal immigrants, any savings in wages go in to the pocket of the business owner period!
Originally posted by: Shivetya
In a meeting with security officials, Hortefeux reiterated President Nicolas Sarkozy?s goal of 25,000 expulsions by the end of 2007 - compared with 24,000 in 2006 - and set a year-end goal of 125,000 arrests for alleged illegal entry or illegal residence, a ministry statement said. The number of those already arrested was not immediately clear.
Topic Title: Three Cheers for FRANCE!
Topic Summary: Go FRANCE. Kick the illegals OUT
gotta hope a revolution in leadership happens here one day, throw the bums out and get someone who will not take the politically correct route...
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: feralkid
Got a vested interest in French politics, or do you just like to see immigrants' asses kicked?
Illegals breed criminals because they were criminals themselves
They need to leave
By that logic, we should deport jaywalkers. Do you have a better argument against illegal immigration than "it's illegal"?
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: feralkid
Got a vested interest in French politics, or do you just like to see immigrants' asses kicked?
Illegals breed criminals because they were criminals themselves
They need to leave
By that logic, we should deport jaywalkers. Do you have a better argument against illegal immigration than "it's illegal"?
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: feralkid
Got a vested interest in French politics, or do you just like to see immigrants' asses kicked?
You pull this ignorant crap all the time, here, since you have trouble reading, I'll try and help you out.
I L L E G A L
Originally posted by: Excelsior
You totally missed most of my post didn't you (also note I never said that they were a value, it was only directed at the person I quoted). I absolutely guarantee you that someone else just like you was spouting the same sh!t ~100 years ago about the huge numbers of low-wage, low-skilled immigrants coming into the country.
And your numbers are completely out of whack. Mind posting where you got them from? Or is your source complete bollocks as I suspect.
You can't honestly believe that. Sure the business owners profit extremely from it, I won't disagree, but to say that it doesn't benefit the average American is a load of sh!t. They cut lawns for cheaper, they build houses faster (and just as well), they clean houses cheaper....etc, etc. All of this directly benefits the American.
Edit: I forgot to mention that everyone ranting about "Best of the best! We can only let those in who have 4 year degrees at a minumum" is fracking retarded. This country was BUILT by people who were not highly educated and didn't make much money. They just worked hard. Imagine that.
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: feralkid
Got a vested interest in French politics, or do you just like to see immigrants' asses kicked?
Illegals breed criminals because they were criminals themselves
They need to leave
By that logic, we should deport jaywalkers. Do you have a better argument against illegal immigration than "it's illegal"?
Using your logic we should let anybody who can walk, drive, or afford a plane ticket into the country. Do you have an argument for letting the illegals in or do you just like to critisize people who are against it, like that proves something?
Originally posted by: amish
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: feralkid
Got a vested interest in French politics, or do you just like to see immigrants' asses kicked?
Illegals breed criminals because they were criminals themselves
They need to leave
By that logic, we should deport jaywalkers. Do you have a better argument against illegal immigration than "it's illegal"?
sure, lets say that i come to your house and take up residence in your bathroom. i eat in the bathroom, sleep in the bathroom, and use the bathroom. i keep the room clean for the most part. i take the trash out of the bathroom and put it in another recepticle, make sure there isn't pee on the seat, but my bed is taking up where the bathtub was and i'm not going to clean that up so you can use your bathtub.
while i keep things somewhat clean, i am also a drain on you by using the water that you pay for, electricity that you pay for, and ask for toilet paper whenever i'm out. i also don't allow you to use your room while i'm there.
now, do you kick me out or let me stay?
Originally posted by: Socio
Originally posted by: Excelsior
You totally missed most of my post didn't you (also note I never said that they were a value, it was only directed at the person I quoted). I absolutely guarantee you that someone else just like you was spouting the same sh!t ~100 years ago about the huge numbers of low-wage, low-skilled immigrants coming into the country.
And your numbers are completely out of whack. Mind posting where you got them from? Or is your source complete bollocks as I suspect.
You can't honestly believe that. Sure the business owners profit extremely from it, I won't disagree, but to say that it doesn't benefit the average American is a load of sh!t. They cut lawns for cheaper, they build houses faster (and just as well), they clean houses cheaper....etc, etc. All of this directly benefits the American.
Edit: I forgot to mention that everyone ranting about "Best of the best! We can only let those in who have 4 year degrees at a minumum" is fracking retarded. This country was BUILT by people who were not highly educated and didn't make much money. They just worked hard. Imagine that.
The numbers are not ?bollocks ?and you do not need a source as it is not that hard to figure out;
Low wage worker head of households qualify for $10,000 a year in welfare benefits, he also qualifies for HUD Section 8 Housing Assistance Payments, free (no deductible, no co-pay) health care, subsidized high energy bills and utilities, Food stamps, his kids get free education, free breakfasts and lunches at school, his kids also require "at extra cost? bilingual teachers, classes and books. There is probably a lot more I am missing but as you can see it adds up to easily being $17,000 to $19,000 a year and that is pretty conservative. Then you tack on the free Earned Income Tax Credit and their net salary and they pocket about an average of $35,000 a year in cash & benefits.
As far as needing best of the best that is exactly what we really only need.
With children of illegal/legal south of the border immigrants having the highest drop out rate and lowest college attendance rate in the nation we already have a perpetual cycle of low wage workers with a 3.4% growth rate what we will be short on is highly educated skilled workers.
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Socio
Originally posted by: Excelsior
You totally missed most of my post didn't you (also note I never said that they were a value, it was only directed at the person I quoted). I absolutely guarantee you that someone else just like you was spouting the same sh!t ~100 years ago about the huge numbers of low-wage, low-skilled immigrants coming into the country.
And your numbers are completely out of whack. Mind posting where you got them from? Or is your source complete bollocks as I suspect.
You can't honestly believe that. Sure the business owners profit extremely from it, I won't disagree, but to say that it doesn't benefit the average American is a load of sh!t. They cut lawns for cheaper, they build houses faster (and just as well), they clean houses cheaper....etc, etc. All of this directly benefits the American.
Edit: I forgot to mention that everyone ranting about "Best of the best! We can only let those in who have 4 year degrees at a minumum" is fracking retarded. This country was BUILT by people who were not highly educated and didn't make much money. They just worked hard. Imagine that.
The numbers are not ?bollocks ?and you do not need a source as it is not that hard to figure out;
Low wage worker head of households qualify for $10,000 a year in welfare benefits, he also qualifies for HUD Section 8 Housing Assistance Payments, free (no deductible, no co-pay) health care, subsidized high energy bills and utilities, Food stamps, his kids get free education, free breakfasts and lunches at school, his kids also require "at extra cost? bilingual teachers, classes and books. There is probably a lot more I am missing but as you can see it adds up to easily being $17,000 to $19,000 a year and that is pretty conservative. Then you tack on the free Earned Income Tax Credit and their net salary and they pocket about an average of $35,000 a year in cash & benefits.
As far as needing best of the best that is exactly what we really only need.
With children of illegal/legal south of the border immigrants having the highest drop out rate and lowest college attendance rate in the nation we already have a perpetual cycle of low wage workers with a 3.4% growth rate what we will be short on is highly educated skilled workers.
Yeah, and what about the rest of what he said. I'm sure your family came here on the Mayflower and has been filled with wealthy land-owners since the slave trade, but for a lot of us, our families came here from a variety of different places with very little money, and very few possessions, and held menial jobs with the idea that their children could have more. In my case, my great-grandparents (all of them) came here from various places in Europe as adults, and most of my grandparents were small children when they came here. My great-grandmother on my mom's side cleaned houses, and my great-grandfather on my mom's side worked in construction...not terribly different from what today's illegal immigrants from Mexico are doing. It's a good thing your standards weren't applied to them...because they did quite well for their family. My grandparents didn't go to college, but they held considerably better jobs and lived better lives. My parents went to college, even if they had to pay for it themselves. And my generation of my family? We all went to college and, in most cases, we either got full scholarships or our parents could afford to send us. And, by your logic, we should all be back in the "old country" because a couple generations ago my ancestors built and cleaned houses.
Oh, sure, my great-grandparents immigrated legally, but your argument isn't about that...it's about the alleged "quality" of people we should let in...if you aren't a stock market millionaire, America doesn't want you. In fact, once you get past the bluster and faux-outrage over breaking the law, the anti-illegal immigration arguments always seen to be anti-immigration arguments.
Wow.... just wow.....Originally posted by: Rainsford
Do you have an argument for keeping them out? I won't claim I'm perfect when it comes to libertarian principles, but I generally believe that, for the most part, freedom is assumed unless it can be shown why that freedom should be denied.
Perhaps you should be advocating more responsibility from the politicians in Mexico, instead of implicitly supporting their effort of dumping all their problems on the USA.You guys support the idea of drawing lines on a map and using force to keep people from crossing those lines, I'm just saying that the "benefits" of doing that don't really always go without saying...support your argument with something other than "that's the way it's always been done". I'm advocating MORE freedom and more choice, I see no need to come up with a reason for doing so.
Originally posted by: dna
Wow.... just wow.....Originally posted by: Rainsford
Do you have an argument for keeping them out? I won't claim I'm perfect when it comes to libertarian principles, but I generally believe that, for the most part, freedom is assumed unless it can be shown why that freedom should be denied.
Other than that, methinks you are willing to spend someone elses money to support your notion of freedom.
Perhaps you should be advocating more responsibility from the politicians in Mexico, instead of implicitly supporting their effort of dumping all their problems on the USA.You guys support the idea of drawing lines on a map and using force to keep people from crossing those lines, I'm just saying that the "benefits" of doing that don't really always go without saying...support your argument with something other than "that's the way it's always been done". I'm advocating MORE freedom and more choice, I see no need to come up with a reason for doing so.
As for reasons for restriction, I'd say that an influx of many uneducated people who do not even speak English is not going to promote social stability -- one day they might rally and fly the Mexican flag at the US post office.
(edit: link posted for the sake of the lovely pictures)
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: dna
Wow.... just wow.....Originally posted by: Rainsford
Do you have an argument for keeping them out? I won't claim I'm perfect when it comes to libertarian principles, but I generally believe that, for the most part, freedom is assumed unless it can be shown why that freedom should be denied.
Other than that, methinks you are willing to spend someone elses money to support your notion of freedom.
Perhaps you should be advocating more responsibility from the politicians in Mexico, instead of implicitly supporting their effort of dumping all their problems on the USA.You guys support the idea of drawing lines on a map and using force to keep people from crossing those lines, I'm just saying that the "benefits" of doing that don't really always go without saying...support your argument with something other than "that's the way it's always been done". I'm advocating MORE freedom and more choice, I see no need to come up with a reason for doing so.
As for reasons for restriction, I'd say that an influx of many uneducated people who do not even speak English is not going to promote social stability -- one day they might rally and fly the Mexican flag at the US post office.
(edit: link posted for the sake of the lovely pictures)
Texas students recite Mexican pledge in US school
Originally posted by: CanOWorms
I hope that there is some oversight over France's actions. Many European countries routeinly deport legitimate refugees as illegal immigrants, giving many of them a death sentence. Many refugees are also violently detained, resulting in death before they even leave Europe.
Anyone with knowledge of France's history of genocide should be concerned.
Originally posted by: Socio
Originally posted by: Excelsior
You totally missed most of my post didn't you (also note I never said that they were a value, it was only directed at the person I quoted). I absolutely guarantee you that someone else just like you was spouting the same sh!t ~100 years ago about the huge numbers of low-wage, low-skilled immigrants coming into the country.
And your numbers are completely out of whack. Mind posting where you got them from? Or is your source complete bollocks as I suspect.
You can't honestly believe that. Sure the business owners profit extremely from it, I won't disagree, but to say that it doesn't benefit the average American is a load of sh!t. They cut lawns for cheaper, they build houses faster (and just as well), they clean houses cheaper....etc, etc. All of this directly benefits the American.
Edit: I forgot to mention that everyone ranting about "Best of the best! We can only let those in who have 4 year degrees at a minumum" is fracking retarded. This country was BUILT by people who were not highly educated and didn't make much money. They just worked hard. Imagine that.
The numbers are not ?bollocks ?and you do not need a source as it is not that hard to figure out;
Low wage worker head of households qualify for $10,000 a year in welfare benefits, he also qualifies for HUD Section 8 Housing Assistance Payments, free (no deductible, no co-pay) health care, subsidized high energy bills and utilities, Food stamps, his kids get free education, free breakfasts and lunches at school, his kids also require "at extra cost? bilingual teachers, classes and books. There is probably a lot more I am missing but as you can see it adds up to easily being $17,000 to $19,000 a year and that is pretty conservative. Then you tack on the free Earned Income Tax Credit and their net salary and they pocket about an average of $35,000 a year in cash & benefits.
As far as needing best of the best that is exactly what we really only need.
With children of illegal/legal south of the border immigrants having the highest drop out rate and lowest college attendance rate in the nation we already have a perpetual cycle of low wage workers with a 3.4% growth rate what we will be short on is highly educated skilled workers.
Emigrating to the U.S. wasn't the magical solution for most of the immigrants. Peasants arrived without resources, or capital to start farms or businesses. Few of them ever accumulated the resources to make any meaningful choice about their way of life. Fortunately for them, the expansion of the American economy created heavy demands for muscle grunt. The great canals, which were the first links in the national transportation system were still being dug in the 1820s and 1830s, and in the time between 1830 and 1880, thousands of miles of rail were being laid. With no bulldozers existing at the time, the pick and the shovel were the only earth-moving equipment at the time. And the Irish laborers were the mainstay of the construction gangs that did this grueling work. In towns along the sites of work, groups of Irish formed their small communities to live in. By the middle of the nineteenth century, as American cities were undergoing rapid growth and beginning to develop an infrastructure and creating the governmental machinery and personnel necessary to run it, the Irish and their children got their first foothold- on the ground floor. Irish policemen and firemen are not just stereotypes: Irish all but monopolized those jobs when they were being created in the post-Civil War years, and even today Irish names are clearly over-represented in those occupations (Daniels, 1990). Irish workmen not only began laying the horsecar and streetcar tracks, but were some of the first drivers and conductors. The first generations worked largely at unskilled and semiskilled occupations, but their children found themselves working at increasingly skilled trades. By 1900, when Irish American mend made up about a thirteenth of the male labor force, they were almost a third of the plumbers, steamfitters, and boilermakers. Industry working Irish soon found themselves lifted up into boss and straw-boss positions as common laborers more and more arrived from southern and eastern Europe- Italians, Slavs, and Hungarians.
In the U.S. where the abundance of cheap land could no longer be found, the mostly agricultural Italians in Italy, became mostly urban. Starting from the bottom of the occupational ladder working up, they worked jobs such as shoe shinning, ragpicking, sewer cleaning, and whatever hard, dirty, dangerous jobs others didn't want. Even children worked at an early age, as in Italy, even at the expense of their educations. The Italians were known for rarely accepting charity or resorting to prostitution for money, another reflection of patterns in Italy.
The living conditions for the Italians tended to be over crowded and filthy all over the U.S.. Italian laborers also tended to skimp on food in a desperate attempt to save money. However, after time and new generations of Italians, the dirtiness of their homes disappeared along with the complaint of weak Italians from lack of nutrition.
The Italians were noted for their diligence and sobriety as workmen. In the late 19th and 20th centuries, Italians often became fishermen, shoemakers, waiters, fruit sellers, and tradesmen. Most were unskilled laborers though, working in mines and construction jobs. Over the years, the Italians rose up the economic scale but acquiring job skills in blue-collar job rather than by becoming educated and entering that profession.
Originally posted by: Excelsior
Originally posted by: Socio
Originally posted by: Excelsior
You totally missed most of my post didn't you (also note I never said that they were a value, it was only directed at the person I quoted). I absolutely guarantee you that someone else just like you was spouting the same sh!t ~100 years ago about the huge numbers of low-wage, low-skilled immigrants coming into the country.
And your numbers are completely out of whack. Mind posting where you got them from? Or is your source complete bollocks as I suspect.
You can't honestly believe that. Sure the business owners profit extremely from it, I won't disagree, but to say that it doesn't benefit the average American is a load of sh!t. They cut lawns for cheaper, they build houses faster (and just as well), they clean houses cheaper....etc, etc. All of this directly benefits the American.
Edit: I forgot to mention that everyone ranting about "Best of the best! We can only let those in who have 4 year degrees at a minumum" is fracking retarded. This country was BUILT by people who were not highly educated and didn't make much money. They just worked hard. Imagine that.
The numbers are not ?bollocks ?and you do not need a source as it is not that hard to figure out;
Low wage worker head of households qualify for $10,000 a year in welfare benefits, he also qualifies for HUD Section 8 Housing Assistance Payments, free (no deductible, no co-pay) health care, subsidized high energy bills and utilities, Food stamps, his kids get free education, free breakfasts and lunches at school, his kids also require "at extra cost? bilingual teachers, classes and books. There is probably a lot more I am missing but as you can see it adds up to easily being $17,000 to $19,000 a year and that is pretty conservative. Then you tack on the free Earned Income Tax Credit and their net salary and they pocket about an average of $35,000 a year in cash & benefits.
As far as needing best of the best that is exactly what we really only need.
With children of illegal/legal south of the border immigrants having the highest drop out rate and lowest college attendance rate in the nation we already have a perpetual cycle of low wage workers with a 3.4% growth rate what we will be short on is highly educated skilled workers.
I do not need a source? Are you mad? You can't just post statistics and claim they are fact without providing a trustworthy source. This is simple.
Read this:
http://library.thinkquest.org/20619/Irish.html
Emigrating to the U.S. wasn't the magical solution for most of the immigrants. Peasants arrived without resources, or capital to start farms or businesses. Few of them ever accumulated the resources to make any meaningful choice about their way of life. Fortunately for them, the expansion of the American economy created heavy demands for muscle grunt. The great canals, which were the first links in the national transportation system were still being dug in the 1820s and 1830s, and in the time between 1830 and 1880, thousands of miles of rail were being laid. With no bulldozers existing at the time, the pick and the shovel were the only earth-moving equipment at the time. And the Irish laborers were the mainstay of the construction gangs that did this grueling work. In towns along the sites of work, groups of Irish formed their small communities to live in. By the middle of the nineteenth century, as American cities were undergoing rapid growth and beginning to develop an infrastructure and creating the governmental machinery and personnel necessary to run it, the Irish and their children got their first foothold- on the ground floor. Irish policemen and firemen are not just stereotypes: Irish all but monopolized those jobs when they were being created in the post-Civil War years, and even today Irish names are clearly over-represented in those occupations (Daniels, 1990). Irish workmen not only began laying the horsecar and streetcar tracks, but were some of the first drivers and conductors. The first generations worked largely at unskilled and semiskilled occupations, but their children found themselves working at increasingly skilled trades. By 1900, when Irish American mend made up about a thirteenth of the male labor force, they were almost a third of the plumbers, steamfitters, and boilermakers. Industry working Irish soon found themselves lifted up into boss and straw-boss positions as common laborers more and more arrived from southern and eastern Europe- Italians, Slavs, and Hungarians.
And another:
http://library.thinkquest.org/20619/Italian.html
In the U.S. where the abundance of cheap land could no longer be found, the mostly agricultural Italians in Italy, became mostly urban. Starting from the bottom of the occupational ladder working up, they worked jobs such as shoe shinning, ragpicking, sewer cleaning, and whatever hard, dirty, dangerous jobs others didn't want. Even children worked at an early age, as in Italy, even at the expense of their educations. The Italians were known for rarely accepting charity or resorting to prostitution for money, another reflection of patterns in Italy.
The living conditions for the Italians tended to be over crowded and filthy all over the U.S.. Italian laborers also tended to skimp on food in a desperate attempt to save money. However, after time and new generations of Italians, the dirtiness of their homes disappeared along with the complaint of weak Italians from lack of nutrition.
The Italians were noted for their diligence and sobriety as workmen. In the late 19th and 20th centuries, Italians often became fishermen, shoemakers, waiters, fruit sellers, and tradesmen. Most were unskilled laborers though, working in mines and construction jobs. Over the years, the Italians rose up the economic scale but acquiring job skills in blue-collar job rather than by becoming educated and entering that profession.
Can you people not see that history is repeating itself? The PRIMARY difference being that the large numbers of "low skilled poor immigrants" that came in the past were legal. That is all. They were just as poor, just as "low skilled", and just as discriminated/looked down on (if not more so) as these Hispanic immigrants are today.
We just didn't call them illegal because we naturalized them. Then Immigration "reform" began, leading up to the problem today, where we have millions of undocumented "illegal" immigrants. Instead of reforming the screwed up system and actually making legal immigration a much more feasible prospect, we turned a blind eye to the border.
I don't know about you lot, but I'd much rather have had an "Ellis Island" or two on the border to help facilitate legal immigration for the millions that have come here rather than ignoring them then trying to face the problem years later (which is exactly what we've done). By doing so we could have drastically limited the number of illegal immigrants and the ones "jumping the fence".
The big majority of these illegal immigrants are low-skill, low-wage high school dropouts. An in-depth Heritage Foundation study by Robert Rector estimates that the average low-skill household receives $30,160 in taxpayer-paid benefits from all levels of government.
Heritage estimates that the average low-skill household pays only $10,573 in taxes at all levels. Each household, therefore, lays a net cost on U.S. taxpayers of $19,588 per year, which added up to $564 billion in 2004. The Heritage Foundation is a conservative public policy research institute based in Washington, D.C. From 1995-2005 the foundation ran Townhall.com.
In addition to public schools, low-income Americans are the beneficiaries of more than 60 federal means-tested aid programs, including Medicaid; Earned Income Tax Credit, a cash handout that averages $1,700 per year per household; food stamps; Section 8 housing, public housing; Temporary Assistance to Needy Families, or TANF; school lunches and breakfasts; the Women, Infants and Children, or WIC, nutrition program; Social Services Block Grants, or SSBG; and legal services.
Most Americans are unaware of the enormous government transfers from taxpaying Americans to those who pay little or no income taxes.
About 45 percent of illegal immigrants work in the underground economy, thereby avoiding all income and employment taxes. And, because Mexicans send $23 billion a year of their earnings in remittances back to their home country, they pay little sales taxes for purchases of U.S. products.
In case you haven't notice the Mexican flag is the one put on prominent display at every possible occasion -- quite audacious from a group of people who not so long ago held a demonstration to demand rights.Originally posted by: Rainsford
Single events are not a basis for judging the entire group of Mexican immigrants. Are these events common among Mexican illegal immigrants, or are they selected by people who (no offense) have a HUGE bias on the issue to prove a point?