Top Kill Fails

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CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
I figured the some in here would *LOVE* the new-cu-lar option but it won't work. Russian scientist who proposed it said only 10% chance and people are running with it like it's a panacea now. There is simply too much pressure. Throw some sand in a running hose and let me know how that works for ya.

Plus you risk making hole bigger and uncappable ever!!!


They are also overlooking (or ignoring) the salt layers that may lay between sucessive layers of rock.
Shatter the salt and the expanse of leaking fisures may not even be able to be delt with.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_dome
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
They are also overlooking (or ignoring) the salt layers that may lay between sucessive layers of rock.
Shatter the salt and the expanse of leaking fisures may not even be able to be delt with.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_dome

Yes thats what he said...wish I could find article but I delete history on exit of browser...basically he said oil would act like a sand blaster and exploit any crevice/crack and you could end up with 50 1 ft holes to cap.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
What do you guys think of something like this???

1. Blow off BOP well head with conventional weapons
2. Get a very long cone solid steel like 100 ft & 100,000+ lbs
3. drop it in hole

???

they are thinking about that but more like 6000 tons and made of cement.
 

RedCOMET

Platinum Member
Jul 8, 2002
2,836
0
0
Yes thats what he said...wish I could find article but I delete history on exit of browser...basically he said oil would act like a sand blaster and exploit any crevice/crack and you could end up with 50 1 ft holes to cap.

After you drill through the salt dome, and subsequent rubble zone... the hydrocarbon bearing sand is under neath a cap rock. Destroy the cap rock along with any structural or stratigraphic traps, and its any body's guess as to how the hydrocarbons will get to the surface.
 

RedCOMET

Platinum Member
Jul 8, 2002
2,836
0
0
they are thinking about that but more like 6000 tons and made of cement.

I though the damaged BOP was actually restricting the flow somehwhat and having it in place stills offers them options when it comes to combating the leak... remove the bop and the type of responses they have are limited... thats my undrestanding anyways.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
I though the damaged BOP was actually restricting the flow somehwhat and having it in place stills offers them options when it comes to combating the leak... remove the bop and the type of responses they have are limited... thats my undrestanding anyways.

well the next thing they are gonna try will cut the damaged bop free anyway. So if that doesnt work you might as well try the giant plug.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
I though the damaged BOP was actually restricting the flow somehwhat and having it in place stills offers them options when it comes to combating the leak... remove the bop and the type of responses they have are limited... thats my undrestanding anyways.

This is true. They are going to try the LMRP cap first but it that proves unsuccessful a brute force "cap" type idea is all that's left. Put enough mass on that hole it won't leak.
 

Carmen813

Diamond Member
May 18, 2007
3,189
0
76
Ironically, it's looking like the only permanent solution basically winds to to "drill baby drill."
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Ironically, it's looking like the only permanent solution basically winds to to "drill baby drill."

Relief wells will be done by August... by then we'll have to apply to Rand McNally for a name change to The Black Sea.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
How much oil would it take to kill the oceans? Kinda crazy question I know but seeing as oil goes to the surface it would block light below creating a nuclear winter so to speak.
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
well the next thing they are gonna try will cut the damaged bop free anyway. So if that doesnt work you might as well try the giant plug.

I think their plan it to leave the BOP in place (for now) and cut away the bent over riser, which folded
when the Deepwater Horizon sank and settled on the botom - that's setting almost a mile away
and there is a bent and broken riser folded from the top of the BOP extending with buckled sections
to the drill rig's wreckage/tomb.

If they cut away the riser above the BOP it will increase the flow when it comes off, as the bent area
is acting as a constrictor, but that's where the biggest leak is continuing to flow.
Once it separates, the riser contents will flow out slowly, but the unencumbered riser opening will gush
freeley until the cap can be settled in place over the stand pipe section, which may take 4 days to perform.
They keep mentioning that the pipe's ID is 21 inches - it's almost as big as a 55 gallon drum in diameter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drum_%28container)

That's a big tube to allow a huge flow volume to come out of.
 
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nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,808
83
91
I'm embarrassed to be a part of the human species.
no one's stopping you from leaving society and hanging out in a forest, but be sure to leave thousands and thousands of years of human technology and innovation behind you.
 

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
4,822
0
0
They are also overlooking (or ignoring) the salt layers that may lay between sucessive layers of rock.
Shatter the salt and the expanse of leaking fisures may not even be able to be delt with.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_dome

Not claiming any expertise, I use these threads to informally become a bit more knowledgeable about the topic.

This is the best resource that I have been able to come up with in casual searching on the effects that can be expected in setting off a nuclear explosion at depth...

The Effects of Nuclear Weapons

» CHAPTER VI-Shock Effects of Surface and Subsurface Bursts. 231

Characteristics of Surface and Shallow Underground Bursts. 231
Deep Underground Bursts 238
Damage to Structures. 241
Characteristics of Underwater Bursts. 244
Technical Aspects of Surface and Underground Bursts. 253
Technical Aspects of Deep Underground Bursts. 260
Loading on Buried Structures. 263
Damage from Ground Shock 265
Technical Aspects of Underwater Bursts. 268

The question I have is related to the drill hole depth and angle.

If the drill is shallow (sideways) and goes through a salt dome to the deposit layer, then the nuke option is likely to carry a substantial risk.

If, however, the drill is deep/vertical (1+ kilometers), punches far beyond any surveyed salt dome or doesn't reach it, wouldn't a nuke's compression and/or heat effect collapse the drill hole and fuse the surrounding sediment to, in effect, place an obsidian cap on the drill hole and the immediate crater?

I am not advocating anything here, especially without an understanding of the particular sediment/rock layering of the drill site. I am just conjecturing about the feasibility of capping the oil flow at the cost of whatever collateral effects will occur, ie fish kill, shore damage from resultant waves, destabilization of local fault lines, etc. Radiation does not seem to be a worry based on the prior deep water testing.

If the capping efforts don't work, it would be reasonable to consider alternatives that can be more expeditiously applied than watching three or four months of oil gushing out, but always keeping in mind that there is no such thing as a free lunch.
 
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FaaR

Golden Member
Dec 28, 2007
1,056
412
136
Put enough mass on that hole it won't leak.
Small problem with that though... I'm wagering the ocean floor is not a particulary stable surface. It's likely more like mud/clay for a significant depth. Start loading a lot of weight on that pipe sticking up and it's just going to sink/bend/buckle under the load - leading to unpredictable results.
 

DougoMan

Senior member
May 23, 2009
813
0
71
no one's stopping you from leaving society and hanging out in a forest, but be sure to leave thousands and thousands of years of human technology and innovation behind you.

i'm pretty sure i would still be a human if i did that. and still very embarrassed.

especially in when i compare myself to more advanced things.. like ants.
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
Complexity of Mississippi Canyon:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississippi_Canyon

http://www.searchanddiscovery.net/documents/2007/07083chowdhury/index.htm

http://www.searchanddiscovery.net/documents/2009/10215chowdhury/index.htm


As to 'Nukes' - they have been drilling bore holes for Thremonuclear tests in Nevada for years.
Some have been in the 249 Kiloton up to 1 Megaton range, but were to restricted to 150
Kilotons or less in 1988.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_nuclear_testing

http://www.onlinenevada.org/Underground_Nuclear_Testing_at_the_Nevada_Test_Site

Usually 1/4 mile or more in depth, with yields below 150 Kilotons they create a void (chamber) and
a rubble chimney which tends to collapse inward (downward) causing a depression.

The music sucks:

http://video.search.yahoo.com/video...outube.com/watch?v=TcljKh6eVHA&sigs=11a8he17a
 

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
4,822
0
0

Based on your links and going to the abstract page here -
A Geologic Review of the Mahogany Subsalt Discovery: A Well That Proved a Play(The Mahogany Subsalt Discovery: A Unique Hydrocarbon Play, Offshore Louisiana), Holly Harrison, Dwight ‘Clint’ Moore, and Peggy Hodgkins - Search and Discovery Article #60049 (2010) Posted April 28, 2010

It looks like this is actually a sub-salt deposit with thousands of feet of salt/sediment layering above it. The pressure and permeability of the strata makes it a great find for extraction.

The article says that salt is not compressible, but it would seem if a nuclear explosion were employed with the right amount of kiloton force, the layering would support the collapse of the layers closest to the surface, closing off the narrow drill hole while leaving the remaining layers intact with no more lateral or vertical migration than exists naturally.

Although salt is an incompressible rock and therefore pore pressures are constant, the mud weight during drilling was increased in the salt interval to control the gas liberated from the sediment inclusions and also in anticipation of drilling higher pressures below the base of salt. The sedimentary section immediately below salt is a high-pressured "gumbo" with pore pressures that may exceed 17 pounds per gallon mud-weight pressure gradients (0.88 PSI/ft). The pressure gradient in this subsalt layer regresses with depth until a more regional gradient is achieved, although still geopressured (Figure 16). Salt has a high thermal conductivity and the temperature gradients within the salt are low (0.26 degree F/100 ft). There is a low temperature gradient zone below the salt, but temperature gradients gradually increase again with depth.
 
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JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
Not much different than a minor volcanic eruption or very small subsea earthquake really.

yes yes. We are aware that the new republican solution is the nuke from orbit strategy. By going down this road the republicans can say they offered a solution but lets think for a moment about the RISKS involved. Are you 100% sure that we wont cause more problems then we fix?
 

Locut0s

Lifer
Nov 28, 2001
22,205
43
91
God damn these BP arraogant son of a bitches are evil

http://www.nola.com/news/gulf-oil-spill/index.ssf/2010/05/bps_ceo_disputes_claims_of_und.html

Impound their assets and charge them with criminal negligence!

And Vitter (Diaper Dave) wants them to keep drilling . . .

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/05/30/pol.vitter.drilling.sotu/index.html?hpt=T1

If the next procedure fails I think they should be forced to restart the top kill and keep pumping mud down the well for the whole 3 or 4 months till the relief well is drilled. I don't care if it only keeps the oil down while they are pumping the mud. Keep pumping the fucking mud then and yes BP you have to pay for the mud.
 
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