Trayvon Martin all over again.

[HumblePie]

I'll bite since you accused the media of "lying" in cases like this.

What did the media "lie" about in the Martin case?
What did the media "lie" about in the Smollet case?

By lie I mean the media put out a fact they knew was false or put out a fact with no evidence.

Trayvon Martin. The 12 year old boy pictures. The editted 911 call. The statements he only bought skittles and ice tea but left out the cough syrup he also bought to make Lean. There are certainly more than that. Those are all intentional lies on the case intended to deceive the public. I'll give you this one since it was awhile ago that it happened.

But the Smollet case was pretty recent and you are having a hard time understanding where the media was repeating everything Smollet said? That his whole claim was a lie in the first place, so without doing any due dilligence in their journalistic research they were repeating the lie to the public. When the police told the media that it was a lie, they kept on telling it any way. How is this even a "bite" for a question?

 

[ewdotson]

While the manager has no duty to perform any action, saying he couldn't take action at that moment isn't quite right either.

*shrug*

You're not arguing with me - you're arguing with the Georgia Court of Appeals.

 

[HumblePie]

In what world are any of these evidence a crime was committed except in a world where you want to nail this guy for something?

Investigated for something else is reasonable suspicion of a crime? Or is that the black people standard??

Okay, you have failed to consume the info I posted prior. That is fine. This case is broken into two parts. The first part is did the McMichaels legally have the standing to affect a citizen's arrest in this case. That post of mine you quote doesn't affect that part of the case. It is for the second part which will be about the use of force in affecting the citizen's arrest. The second part is more complicated due to the outcome of the first part.

The fact is Greg McMichaels directly watched Arbery trespass onto property that a) he had done so before on and b) had knowledge he had no right to be there due to no trespassing signs posted. That is a crime the McMichaels, as well as others at the time like Bryan Williams, witnessed Arbery committing. It is enough to affect a citizen's arrest.

 

[HomerJS]

Trayvon Martin. The 12 year old boy pictures. The editted 911 call. The statements he only bought skittles and ice tea but left out the cough syrup he also bought to make Lean. There are certainly more than that. Those are all intentional lies on the case intended to deceive the public. I'll give you this one since it was awhile ago that it happened.

But the Smollet case was pretty recent and you are having a hard time understanding where the media was repeating everything Smollet said? That his whole claim was a lie in the first place, so without doing any due dilligence in their journalistic research they were repeating the lie to the public. When the police told the media that it was a lie, they kept on telling it any way. How is this even a "bite" for a question?

12 year old pictures? Those were fake? They were pictures of someone else? You'll have to explain the cough syrup thing. What is it and why is it relevant? News to me. Not a right wing rag source.

What Smollet says is evidence. They should report it. Turns out he lied but that isn't the fault of the press. Didn't the media report on the person who recorded Arbery? They reported what he said. If it turns out he lied I don't blame Anderson Cooper

 

[Brainonska511]

So much quibbling to retrospectively find a reason to murder black people.

Even if they are somehow legally right (which I doubt), they are morally wrong. All these idiots with guns want to play sheriff.

 

[soundforbjt]

So much quibbling to retrospectively find a reason to murder black people.

He did the same thing in the Michael Dunn case, swore Dunn wouldn't face murder charges, failed fantastically.

 

[HumblePie]

12 year old pictures? Those were fake? They were pictures of someone else? You'll have to explain the cough syrup thing. What is it and why is it relevant? News to me. Not a right wing rag source.

What Smollet says is evidence. They should report it. Turns out he lied but that isn't the fault of the press. Didn't the media report on the person who recorded Arbery? They reported what he said. If it turns out he lied I don't blame Anderson Cooper

Trayvon martin was 17 years old at the time. He wasn't 12. Showing pictures of him when he was 12 and stating as a child he was murdered by George Zimmerman were intentional deceptions to the public. They also adjusted the white balance of photo's of George Zimmerman to make him appear more white and less hispanic. The media had on hand more recent pictures but chose to use pictures that were not relevant to the current timeline to paint a picture of an innocent young boy.

The cough syrup was left out of his items purchased when he made a purchase of skittles and ice tea. The three together are commonly used to make a drink called lean to get a person high. By intentionally leaving out this ingredient in their reporting, it made the purchase seem like Trayvon was out to make an innocent purchase. What was left out was that prior to the purchase, Trayvon had texted his friend to score some codiene. When his friend said he didn't have any, but should get some cough syrup for lean then he went to the store instead. It shows that Trayvon's actions were to criminally misuse over the counter drugs to get high. As I said, the media directly edited the 911 call George made as well.

As for Smollet, reporting only his side of the story and not what the police had reported to the media was the lie. When media news organizations were saying believe Smollet or you are a racist. National media were still repeating the lies Smollet made even after local news outlets started reporting that the police had changed the nature of their investigation in early Feb. Once the Chicago PD made known the changes to the case, many national media outlets did their best to not report or to downplay allegations that Smollets story was a hoax. Media matters and others like Don Lemon called people racist for suggesting it was a hoax once the Chicago PD changed their investigation to it being a hoax.

 

[soundforbjt]

Trayvon martin was 17 years old at the time. He wasn't 12. Showing pictures of him when he was 12 and stating as a child he was murdered by George Zimmerman were intentional deceptions to the public. They also adjusted the white balance of photo's of George Zimmerman to make him appear more white and less hispanic.

Sec, will edit this post more in a moment to explain the rest, wife calling me.

Those were the pictures that were provided by the family, not the networks trying to deceive anyone.

 

[HomerJS]

Trayvon martin was 17 years old at the time. He wasn't 12. Showing pictures of him when he was 12 and stating as a child he was murdered by George Zimmerman were intentional deceptions to the public. They also adjusted the white balance of photo's of George Zimmerman to make him appear more white and less hispanic.

Sec, will edit this post more in a moment to explain the rest, wife calling me.

Likely family provided those pictures. TMs age was in the story.

I'll have to see evidence any media outlet doctored GM's picture

 

[JD50]

So much quibbling to retrospectively find a reason to murder black people.

Even if they are somehow legally right (which I doubt), they are morally wrong. All these idiots with guns want to play sheriff.

It's amazing how much time he's invested in this.

 

[brycejones]

Trayvon martin was 17 years old at the time. He wasn't 12. Showing pictures of him when he was 12 and stating as a child he was murdered by George Zimmerman were intentional deceptions to the public. They also adjusted the white balance of photo's of George Zimmerman to make him appear more white and less hispanic.

Sec, will edit this post more in a moment to explain the rest, wife calling me.

17 years old is still a child.

 

[brycejones]

So much quibbling to retrospectively find a reason to murder black people.

Even if they are somehow legally right (which I doubt), they are morally wrong. All these idiots with guns want to play sheriff.

So much this. So far all I've learned from this thread is that when chased by civilians with guns an unarmed person has no right to defend themselves especially if black.

 

[pauldun170]

17 years old is still a child.

You have to remember that "certain" people like to judge blacks differently.
When you are black, 13 = Adult

 

[HumblePie]

He did the same thing in the Michael Dunn case, swore Dunn wouldn't face murder charges, failed fantastically.

Uhh, I am consistent in my method of approaching cases like this that are racially charged. I try to maintain perspective, give benefit of the doubt to everyone involved and try not to jump to conclusions. I analyze the facts of a case, the legal laws surrounding it, and the arguments being made. With Michael Dunn I specifically stated after review of the evidence he fucked up and would go to jail. I invite you to go back and look at that. I also stated that pretty early on into the discussions of the case.

 

[pauldun170]

Uhh, I am consistent in my method of approaching cases like this that are racially charged. I try to maintain perspective, give benefit of the doubt to everyone involved and try not to jump to conclusions. I analyze the facts of a case, the legal laws surrounding it, and the arguments being made. With Michael Dunn I specifically stated after review of the evidence he fucked up and would go to jail. I invite you to go back and look at that. I also stated that pretty early on into the discussions of the case.

Looks like 2 guys thought they were doing the right thing in trying to help the police catch who they thought just committed a robbery. They fucked up in their decision making in confronting the person they assumed to be the robber. Video shows there was a struggle over the shotgun which went off accidentally to kill Arbery. Sad tragedy and the 2 men are definitely NOT guilt free here at all. Manslaughter or negligent homicide is definitely a real good argument to be made here. I believe these two guys should be in jail for at least negligent homicide.

This is FAR different than George Zimmerman. The media is spewing so much bullshit on this story lately that it brings out all the crazies foaming at the mouth. These two guys will serve time and justice will be served. This isn't an incident of a mob of white people stalking and hunting down a random black man to kill. That seems to be what half the media lately is trying to spew and people are eating it up.

With the George Zimmerman case, there was almost no facts initially released to the public over the investigation and the speculation on this board was horrible. Once facts came out, it was pretty obvious George Zimmerman, based on the facts of the case, was innocent and a trial born that out. We have far more facts at this point earlier in the process and the facts do not make these guys innocent at all in my eyes so far. Maybe there was something else Arbery did or said leading up to the struggle for the shotgun which changes the situation as we know it. If it does it could change the determination on if these guys are innocent or not. Right now, I'm leaning towards not, but still I know not all the facts are released yet so not jumping to a hard conclusion.

But wow, the racist bigotry I see these days against white people is insane. Despite all the claims and all the people that "want" it to be true, white people just don't commit violent hate crimes as often nor on the same scale as other races in the US. The FBI, CDC, DoJ, and all other agencies that record this data every year bear out these numbers. That isn't to say it doesn't happen, but it is so rare that there are more powerball winners more often than white on another race violent hate crime being committed in the US. Now as for other races on white violent hate crimes, that is a different story. There are far more of those. The media never reports those though.

Speaking logically and with facts on these boards is like farting in the wind with all the crazy justice warriors around here these days. They don't want to know what I just typed and will attack me directly for it. Funny thing is, most won't realize that I am on the side of the black guy so far in this case being wronged and the white guys as far as I know now should be in prison for a crime. But that won't stop some people around here.

lol

 

[brycejones]

You have to remember that "certain" people like to judge blacks differently.
When you are black, 13 = Adult

Is that the age they achieve strong young buck status? For white kids that is just becoming a dumbass age and being teenagers.

 

[HumblePie]

17 years old is still a child.

Are you trying to quibble and be disingenuous here?

 

[HomerJS]

Uhh, I am consistent in my method of approaching cases like this that are racially charged. I try to maintain perspective, give benefit of the doubt to everyone involved and try not to jump to conclusions. I analyze the facts of a case, the legal laws surrounding it, and the arguments being made. With Michael Dunn I specifically stated after review of the evidence he fucked up and would go to jail. I invite you to go back and look at that. I also stated that pretty early on into the discussions of the case.

At any time during the Dunn case did you question the character of Jordan Davis or the others in the car?

 

[pauldun170]

Is that the age they achieve strong young buck status? For white kids that is just becoming a dumbass age and being teenagers.

For black girls, it's even younger. You'll get treated as an adult if you are 12.

 

[HumblePie]

At any time during the Dunn case did you question the character of Jordan Davis or the others in the car?

Nope. I stated that if Jordan was being aggressive or threatening Michael Dunn and that could be proven he would only have been justified in self defense at that moment. That shooting afterwards at a fleeing vehicle full of others was a criminal act that going to land him in jail. I never once talked about Jordan Davis's character or past for that situation because it wasn't relevant to the case at hand.

 

[Paratus]

Legally speaking Martin was clear to confront the armed adult who stalked him after he returned home. He also could have legally used deadly force to defend himself if he was armed.

Arbery also could have legally used a weapon to defend himself from the two armed men brandishing weapons attempting to illegally detain him for who knows what reason.

If you want to live in a state with lax gun laws, are a gun owner with a weapon visible approaching someone in an aggressive manner you should expect to be shot and your shooter legally cleared.

 

[HumblePie]

Legally speaking Martin was clear to confront the armed adult who stalked him after he returned home. He also could have legally used deadly force to defend himself if he was armed.

Arbery also could have legally used a weapon to defend himself from the two armed men brandishing weapons attempting to illegally detain him for who knows what reason.

If you are a gun owner with a weapon visible approaching someone in an aggressive manner you should expect to be shot and your shooter legally cleared.

Legally speaking, you are talking nonsense and that was proven in court. Martin was legal to "confront" George Zimmerman like it is legal for anyone to confront anyone else. Meaning it is legal to walk up and say Hi to someone you don't know. Saying Hi is a confrontation. However, he was not legal to attack George while confronting him. That has been decided in a court of law. Don't like it? Take it up with the legal system in Florida, or pretty much any other state that has laws for battery.

As for Arbery, this is a wrinkle in the case we may not know all the details to. I say Travis McMichael getting out of his vehicle while having gun in hand based on the current evidence is an unreasonable escalation of the use of force to affect a citizen's arrest. That is why I say that Travis at the very least will most likely be going to prison unless there is some evidence we don't know about comes out in the court room to change that. If Arbery had stolen something which he dumped while running for example, then that means Arbery committed a felony and doesn't have the same self defense protection when fleeing from a criminal felony even for a citizen's arrest. That would be an example of evidence we don't know about changing things.

As for your third example, you are still completely wrong. There mere act of holding a weapon in public is not criminal. This has been ruled on several times and by SCOTUS. You actually have to be threatening to shoot verbally or by pointing a firearm at someone. Just carrying a firearm is not an aggressive action.

 

[HomerJS]

Nope. I stated that if Jordan was being aggressive or threatening Michael Dunn and that could be proven he would only have been justified in self defense at that moment. That shooting afterwards at a fleeing vehicle full of others was a criminal act that going to land him in jail. I never once talked about Jordan Davis's character or past for that situation because it wasn't relevant to the case at hand.

Interesting how you think in the Arbery case it is legitimate to suspect him for a crime because he was "investigated" for something unrelated

 

[HumblePie]

Interesting how you think in the Arbery case it is legitimate to suspect him for a crime because he was "investigated" for something unrelated

No, Arbery was trespassing and witnessed by the McMichaels. That was a crime. I was talking about the previous investigations as it potentially relates to the use of force later. I believe the McMichaels were legally justified in attempting to affect a citizen's arrest. As for the reasonable use of force, other factors are going to play into that equation. Arbery's past criminal actions that Greg McMichael knew about, if he actually recognized he was dealing with Arbery at that moment, would certainly play a role in justifying the level of use of force used to apprehend Arbery.

Unreasonable use of force is what tends to get most people on criminal charges attempting to affect a citizens arrest. We don't want shopkeepers shooting kids for stealing candy bars for example. Or cutting off their hands like they do in some countries.

 

[soundforbjt]

Uhh, I am consistent in my method of approaching cases like this that are racially charged. I try to maintain perspective, give benefit of the doubt to everyone involved and try not to jump to conclusions. I analyze the facts of a case, the legal laws surrounding it, and the arguments being made. With Michael Dunn I specifically stated after review of the evidence he fucked up and would go to jail. I invite you to go back and look at that. I also stated that pretty early on into the discussions of the case.

I did check, here's one of your posts where you changed your mind and argued Dunn was acting in self defense. This was approx 180-190 pages into the thread.

How so? With the dowel rod pictures, the angle of the shot looks to favor Dunn's testimony that Davis had opened the car door and was in the process of getting out of it. Which directly conflicts with the testimony of the others in the SUV which said the door wasn't opened, and couldn't be opened because of the child locks. Of which the police determined the child locks were not engaged. So that's now a double whammy on their testimony.

The teens in the SUV all agree that they heard Davis say F--- that n*r. But when asked if he said specific threats, they all paused, and then said the music was too loud.

Up until the dowel rod pictures, I was basically under the assumption that Dunn was guilty, but there wasn't even evidence to convict him, and no real evidence for the defense except his testimony. Which means by the law he should be acquitted although people may feel otherwise.

Now there is solid evidence for the defense that Davis had attempted to come after Dunn by exiting the vehicle. That changes things.