Trayvon Martin all over again.

[interchange]

They were just charged with murder.

Latest on the killing of Ahmaud Arbery: Gregory and Travis McMichael arrested, charged with murder

What we know about the killing of Ahmaud Arbery: Gregory and Travis McMichael arrested, charged with murder

The attorneys for Ahmaud Arbery's family believe he was the victim of racial profiling. Here's what we know about the Georgia jogger's shooting death.

www.yahoo.com

I'm guessing felony murder with the key here then proving the aggravated assault.

If there is evidence that they witnessed him doing a crime that changes the whole dynamic as I stated. All we have is the word of a prosecutor right now though, which does have some weight as evidence despite what many around here would want to believe. If your opinion is that this prosecutor I am sure you "personally" know is a lying scumbag I have nothing to say to convince you to rational otherwise.

I am stating that if there was a crime Arbrey committed right in front of them, and it better be something than kicking a rock at a house or crap like that, then it changes the dynamics of the case. If there isn't any said evidence then I stand by the opinion I made earlier about the men committing a crime of brandishing weapons which led to a negligent homicide. That is how it is going to go down in the courts I believe based on what I've seen of this case. Again, more info may be released and changes things again. Or not.

Why? Unless their actions were necessary to prevent immediate harm to someone, it wouldn't matter if he was carrying a stolen TV with him. It was the defendant's actions which created the immediate danger by trying to detain him and enforcing that by brandishing a gun. They didn't have to. Doing so would at best protect property, not immediate bodily injury to anyone.

 

[woolfe9998]

If there is evidence that they witnessed him doing a crime that changes the whole dynamic as I stated. All we have is the word of a prosecutor right now though, which does have some weight as evidence despite what many around here would want to believe. If your opinion is that this prosecutor I am sure you "personally" know is a lying scumbag I have nothing to say to convince you to rational otherwise.

I am stating that if there was a crime Arbrey committed right in front of them, and it better be something than kicking a rock at a house or crap like that, then it changes the dynamics of the case. If there isn't any said evidence then I stand by the opinion I made earlier about the men committing a crime of brandishing weapons which led to a negligent homicide. That is how it is going to go down in the courts I believe based on what I've seen of this case. Again, more info may be released and changes things again. Or not.

Specifically a felony crime for the citizens arrest statute to apply. So far their story is that Arbrey was poking around a construction site. Even assuming that is true, that is trespass, a misdemeanor.

If they claim to have seen him commit a felony, what is it and why haven't we heard about it yet?

 

[Paladin3]

Fucking idiots with guns. Citizen's arrests are legal, but a citizen is only allowed to use reasonable force to affect them. If you attempt to chase down and stop someone at gun point you better have immediate first hand knowledge of a serious violent felony crime or you are WAY overstepping what the law allows. You cannot chase someone and use the threat of lethal force to stop them just because you think they may be guilty of burglary. Or putting their hands in their pants or whatever those bozos are claiming.

Defending yourself from illegal violence is the very definition of self-defense. So, when Arbery fought back he was completely within his legal rights to do so. The jackasses in pursuit can't claim they were defending themselves because they were in the middle of committing a crime when they WAY overstepped the bounds of using reasonable force to affect the citizens arrest.

Them's my legal arguments.

EDIT: oh, just saw they were charged with murder. Good.

 

[pcgeek11]

These two idiots deserve everything they are going to get. How can you be that stupid.

I feel bad for the kid that was murdered and his family.

 

[eelw]

Waits for the bigot in chief to grant them a pardon

 

[BUTCH1]

They were just charged with murder.

Latest on the killing of Ahmaud Arbery: Gregory and Travis McMichael arrested, charged with murder

What we know about the killing of Ahmaud Arbery: Gregory and Travis McMichael arrested, charged with murder

The attorneys for Ahmaud Arbery's family believe he was the victim of racial profiling. Here's what we know about the Georgia jogger's shooting death.

www.yahoo.com

Finally, if a jury cannot see what happened here is wrong on so many levels we're almost doomed as a society.

 

[amenx]

Waits for pics of the McMichaels in MAGA hats.

 

[cytg111]

I remember that among Spidey's last statements were "kill liberals." So, HP playing the sematics game isn't too far from it.

holy c i missed that... but it is was sort of in the cards.

 

[ShookKnight]

He was murdered and they didn't arrest the murderers until a few month's later.

What is going on in this country? How is this even allowed?

 

[interchange]

He was murdered and they didn't arrest the murderers until a few month's later.

What is going on in this country? How is this even allowed?

Prosecutorial discretion. Actually, it really isn't why they say they weren't prosecuted. They say it's because it was a valid attempt at citizen's arrest, which clearly there is no presentation of facts which would indicate Arbrey was in commission of a felony when they pursued him. The charge of murder is less important to me and influenced by politicization of the case in the present. But there should have been no question these guys acted criminally. If they had instead said it was prosecutorial discretion and gave some reasoning to consider why they shouldn't prosecute them, it may be hard to swallow but at least that's in a valid space of subjectivity within our justice system. I think it's a reasonably sure inference that the guy's connections as a former LEO in this small community mattered to the decision. It shouldn't. That's corruption.

 

[HomerJS]

Prosecutorial discretion. Actually, it really isn't why they say they weren't prosecuted. They say it's because it was a valid attempt at citizen's arrest, which clearly there is no presentation of facts which would indicate Arbrey was in commission of a felony when they pursued him. The charge of murder is less important to me and influenced by politicization of the case in the present. But there should have been no question these guys acted criminally. If they had instead said it was prosecutorial discretion and gave some reasoning to consider why they shouldn't prosecute them, it may be hard to swallow but at least that's in a valid space of subjectivity within our justice system. I think it's a reasonably sure inference that the guy's connections as a former LEO in this small community mattered to the decision. It shouldn't. That's corruption.

All of a sudden that discretion went away when the tape came out?

All of a sudden there isn't a valid attempt at a citizens arrest?

I guess its ok to murder them darkies unless the media finds out.

Again here is the law concerning citizens arrest

A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.

2010 Georgia Code :: TITLE 17 - CRIMINAL PROCEDURE :: CHAPTER 4 - ARREST OF PERSONS :: ARTICLE 4 - ARREST BY PRIVATE PERSONS :: § 17-4-60 - Grounds for arrest

law.justia.com

Even without the recording the 2 killers were in front of there house when Arbery jogged by. They were in no position to know if a crime had just been committed. That alone dictated an arrest back in Feb.

 

[HumblePie]

Let's suppose all this is true. why are they chasing down an armed criminal? That's what police are for.
It's a paper thin story and reeks of bullshit.

That's why I said it had to be more than something like kicking a rock at a house. I was being tongue in cheek in saying that it had better be a good offense. I listened to the 911 call the McMichaels made and they expressly stated they saw him leaving a house he broke into, although the house was still under construction (guessing it was a new one being built), and he matched the description of the person they had seen in video's breaking into other houses. That is their claim not mine. Someone walking through a house being constructed though I wouldn't call breaking and entering myself. At most a felony unless they saw him take something. Which they never claimed they saw him do.

So at most they saw him commit a misdemeanor which means people can't affect a Citizen's Arrest here over something that small. Which then means they can't be brandishing weapons when they are looking to confront Arbrey because that is an illegal action on their part. So my original view still stands. The idiots, while with possibly good intentions, got to fucking hot headed and chased someone down with guns at the ready which was illegal and led to a tragic outcome. If the father wasn't a cop previously I would lean more into there being racial motivations at this point even without evidence, but since the dad was a cop, I am leaning he was wanting to live out his glory days more until I see otherwise. That's just my opinion. I think he was a dumbass pig and deserves at this point to roast for it. I know the new prosecutor is going for a murder charge, but I see the outcome being a lesser charge of manslaughter or negligent homicide as I called earlier. Those two, and possibly the third guy trailing them are going to be sitting behind bars for awhile now.

 

[HumblePie]

All of a sudden that discretion went away when the tape came out?

All of a sudden there isn't a valid attempt at a citizens arrest?

I guess its ok to murder them darkies unless the media finds out.

Again here is the law concerning citizens arrest

2010 Georgia Code :: TITLE 17 - CRIMINAL PROCEDURE :: CHAPTER 4 - ARREST OF PERSONS :: ARTICLE 4 - ARREST BY PRIVATE PERSONS :: § 17-4-60 - Grounds for arrest

law.justia.com

Even without the recording the 2 killers were in front of there house when Arbery jogged by. They were in no position to know if a crime had just been committed. That alone dictated an arrest back in Feb.

You didn't listen to the 911 call, they said they saw Arbrey breaking into a house and leaving it. That they were going to pursue him until the cops arrived. They saw him committing a crime. However, the issue is that the house was a house under construction and possibly wide open. At most that is a trespassing misdemeanor and not a felony. So they had no citizens arrest law protection here if that is the case. Made mention of this in a post above.

 

[pauldun170]

You didn't listen to the 911 call, they said they saw Arbrey breaking into a house and leaving it. That they were going to pursue him until the cops arrived. They saw him committing a crime. However, the issue is that the house was a house under construction and possibly wide open. At most that is a trespassing misdemeanor and not a felony. So they had no citizens arrest law protection here if that is the case. Made mention of this in a post above.

Based on your post, I can assume you did not listen to the 911 call(s).

 

[HumblePie]

Based on your post, I can assume you did not listen to the 911 call(s).

I did, right off the bat they state that they are watching him leaving a house that isn't his. When the operator asks if he broke in, they said, no it's under construction still. As I said, that is at most a misdemeanor and not a felony. They also said he looks like the perpetrator they saw in recent videos of someone breaking into houses. Which, even if true, doesn't allow them under the Citizens Arrest law to try to affect an arrest.

 

[interchange]

All of a sudden that discretion went away when the tape came out?

They always have prosecutorial discretion. What I'm saying is that the optics are putting a lot of pressure here to pursue maximal charges. But also it seems like that's warranted from the facts we have access to. And more importantly their reasoning for not charging was bogus and not prosecutorial discretion anyway.

All of a sudden there isn't a valid attempt at a citizens arrest?

What are you suggesting? I'm saying they never had valid grounds for a citizen's arrest and that this defense offered by the prior prosecutor for not pursuing charges was bogus. I don't think I've said anything contrary to that.

I guess its ok to murder them darkies unless the media finds out.

It's not. Are you saying I've ever indicated otherwise?

Again here is the law concerning citizens arrest

2010 Georgia Code :: TITLE 17 - CRIMINAL PROCEDURE :: CHAPTER 4 - ARREST OF PERSONS :: ARTICLE 4 - ARREST BY PRIVATE PERSONS :: § 17-4-60 - Grounds for arrest

law.justia.com

Even without the recording the 2 killers were in front of there house when Arbery jogged by. They were in no position to know if a crime had just been committed. That alone dictated an arrest back in Feb.

Wich is exactly what I was saying. Or trying to say. Did I give you a different impression?

 

[eelw]

Will the family sue the 3 separate police departments involved in this cover up now?

But wonder what took so long for this story to get national attention? Don Lemon has the mother and lawyer on Sunday night. It snowballed from there.

 

[pauldun170]

We have video of the incident.
We have police reports.
We have 911 transcripts.
We have confirmation that there were no reported burglaries in the area prior from the police department aside from Travis's gun being stolen from his car on January 1.

We do have transcripts where no one reports a crime.
We do have transcripts of people complaining that a black man is running on the street.

White people who live in Trumpville.
1 former investigator for the DA's office whose son left his gun in the car on January 1 only to have it stolen. A month later they then hunted down a black man with guns. The black man tried to evade and then they exited the vehicle and charged at him with a shotgun.
We have acquaintances of that former investigator writing letters saying "He didn't do anything wrong so don't charge him".

No one filed a police report of theft of 2500 of fishing gear.
No one has provided nighttime video of "the black man poking around".


But of course...we should wait for more facts.
Because reasons

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Maybe there will be justice, the President has said he watched the video and was very disturbed by it and the victim looked like a fine young man.
This may be an example of where an image driven guy does something good. Maybe the Deplorable’s won’t get as riled up.

 

[ShookKnight]

This just keeps getting worse and worse... a man gets murdered and we have to look into the facts 1st.

Hey, how about looking into the facts 1st before you kill another human being?

 

[eelw]

Nah. He’ll flip and pardon the McMichaels in due time.

 

[soundforbjt]

Nah. He’ll flip and pardon the McMichaels in due time.

Yeah, he'll find out it was a majority white neighborhood loaded with Trump signs and do a 180.

 

[pauldun170]

Citizens arrest argument kinda goes out the window when "The citizen" takes the time to call police yet does not report a crime. Simply reports a black man is running down the street.
The citizen enlists additional people to join the hunt..yet no one calls police to report a crime. Not the citizen who called to report black man running.
Not the son who would shoot the man.
Not the friend who recorded the incident.

Just 2 calls reporting a black man running in the neighborhood.

Great way to use 911.

My assumption is that the Murder charge is for publicity only and the DA expects that only Travis will potentially face jail time on the aggravated assault charge.

The game plan will be keeping that Jury as white as possible and focusing on 2 avenues to seed doubt.

One is to bombard the jury with character assassination.
Start off with his physical appearance as a former football player keep talking about the gun charge to plant the dangerous black man narrative. "My clients feared for their safety and were attacked by the black man"

Build off the narrative that he was involved with the unreported burglaries. Talk about the shoplifting charge and convince the jury that the "community" had reasonable reasons to fear Arbery's presence in the neighborhood.

 

[HumblePie]

Specifically a felony crime for the citizens arrest statute to apply. So far their story is that Arbrey was poking around a construction site. Even assuming that is true, that is trespass, a misdemeanor.

If they claim to have seen him commit a felony, what is it and why haven't we heard about it yet?

I didn't say they did. I said the reported a crime from what the prosecutor released. I said as much that it better be something more than kicking a rock at a house, ie a tongue in cheek example of something not a misdemeanor. Turns out the thought he was breaking into a nearby house which was still under construction. Since those tend to be open, it isn't breaking and entering, thus not a felony. I already made my statement about what should be done with them at this point.

 

[soundforbjt]

I didn't say they did. I said the reported a crime from what the prosecutor released. I said as much that it better be something more than kicking a rock at a house, ie a tongue in cheek example of something not a misdemeanor. Turns out the thought he was breaking into a nearby house which was still under construction. Since those tend to be open, it isn't breaking and entering, thus not a felony. I already made my statement about what should be done with them at this point.

Isn't this release by a prosecutor who had to recuse from the case because he worked for/with the accused?