TRUMP on Obamacare

[First]

Love how everyone posting in this thread just rips on Trump for being the instinctual equivalent of a pet rock . . . while ignoring that pretty everything everything he stated in his blurb on Obamacare in 100% true.

Actually virtually nothing he said is true or even relevant. Saying someone forgot to pay taxes is totally irrelevant to gov't efficiency since this happens just the same with private companies. ACA covers 30M+ more people, not 10M+ more. ACA can't add every new doctor that will be necessary, it's a nonsense point, but they add thousands anyway. We do get benefits from ACA before 2014 (insurance til 26 on parent's plan, pre-existing conditions).

So overall a mostly false, off-topic shit post by Trump, a man who still isn't certain Barack Obama is an American citizen.

 

[Throckmorton]

"We shouldn't get more people insured because there aren't enough doctors" is the most ridiculous talking point. It's basically an argument for rationing...

 

[First]

"We shouldn't get more people insured because there aren't enough doctors" is the most ridiculous talking point. It's basically an argument for rationing...

Yes, this.

 

[Matt1970]

No, every one of those statements I identified was a lie.

His statement was that there are no new doctors. That was a lie.

16,000 new IRS agents? The number is also not 1,600. That was a total request for all agents to bring staffing up to where it needed to be, and was not related to the ACA. The number of agents requested to implement the ACA according to the IRS is 291, with less than 100 of them being in enforcement. Claiming a number that is 5,400% higher than what it actually is... is a lie.

As for your ideas about congressional staff and social security, I don't know what to do other than shake my head. The idea that a congressperson would be well versed enough in every policy area to effectively read and understand every bill that comes by them is sheer lunacy. It's just showing a staggering ignorance of how policy works.

So yeah, a bunch of lies and a few statements that display how stupid Trump is. Gee, I wonder why we don't listen to birthers more often. What's funny is that you guys in your desperation are willing to swallow his crap.

They better god damn well know what the hell they are signing.

As for the IRS, you do the math.

http://www.factcheck.org/2011/02/irs-and-the-health-care-law-part-ii/

291 agents to enforce the law, including 193 to ensure accurate delivery of tax credits. The agency’s technology staff would see the biggest increase with the addition of 537 IT program analysts and specialists. The IRS budget request for fiscal year 2012 shows that the agency is seeking at least 1,269 full-time equivalent employees

Here are the areas, as defined by the IRS, where the new 1,269 FTEs will be needed (see pages 21 through 66):

■Improve Taxpayer Service, 150
■Increase Coverage to Address Tax Law Changes and Other Compliance Issues, 363
■Ensure Accurate Delivery of Tax Credits, 504
■Administer New Statutory Reporting Requirements, 187
■Implement Individual Coverage Requirement and Employer Responsibility Payments, 65

So it's already over 1,200 new employees just for 2012. The numbers are sure to rise after that making the 1,600 seem a lot more accurate than the 291 you quoted.

 

[Texashiker]

The statement has already been discredited, and yes when someone has spent the last couple of years being a birther it's okay to not take what they say seriously.

I have not seen anything discredited.

 

[fskimospy]

They better god damn well know what the hell they are signing.

As for the IRS, you do the math.

http://www.factcheck.org/2011/02/irs-and-the-health-care-law-part-ii/

291 agents to enforce the law, including 193 to ensure accurate delivery of tax credits. The agency’s technology staff would see the biggest increase with the addition of 537 IT program analysts and specialists. The IRS budget request for fiscal year 2012 shows that the agency is seeking at least 1,269 full-time equivalent employees

Here are the areas, as defined by the IRS, where the new 1,269 FTEs will be needed (see pages 21 through 66):

■Improve Taxpayer Service, 150
■Increase Coverage to Address Tax Law Changes and Other Compliance Issues, 363
■Ensure Accurate Delivery of Tax Credits, 504
■Administer New Statutory Reporting Requirements, 187
■Implement Individual Coverage Requirement and Employer Responsibility Payments, 65

So it's already over 1,200 new employees just for 2012. The numbers are sure to rise after that making the 1,600 seem a lot more accurate than the 291 you quoted.

Except of course for the explicit statements by the IRS saying my number. But hey, I'm sure you know better.

Regardless, the claim was 16,000 not 1,600. If your best argument is that Trump was only exaggerating by 1,000%... uhmm... okay.

 

[fskimospy]

I have not seen anything discredited.

Oh, well you should go back and read my other posts about the numerous lies, distortions, and factually false components of his statement.

I mean it came from Trump so you already knew it was going to be stupid and dishonest, but in case you were looking for details they are available.

 

[Rainsford]

The rule of supply and demand wont work here because the demand isnt backed by people willing to pay for their demand.

The rules of supply and demand don't care WHO is paying for demand, only that someone is. As long as doctors get paid, it doesn't matter whether it's by the government, insurance companies or an individual. More payments for doctors will eventually lead to more doctors.

 

[mattpegher]

The rules of supply and demand don't care WHO is paying for demand, only that someone is. As long as doctors get paid, it doesn't matter whether it's by the government, insurance companies or an individual. More payments for doctors will eventually lead to more doctors.

Yes, higher reimbursements for doctors will lead to greater number of doctors, as more people will choose to become doctors, but since the median income of physicians has not kept up with the cost of living and is quickly ceasing to be competative with other professional salaries, I doubt that the feds want to reverse this trend.

 

[Perknose]

Let me get this straight ……

You quoted a statement that contained a bald faced lie, had that LIE pointed out to you, and responded with nothing but a pathetically weak diversion.

You have proven, right here before all of us, that you were never interested in gettng the truth of the ACA straight.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally Posted by Matt1970
Let me get this straight ……

You quoted a statement that contained a bald faced lie, had that LIE pointed out to you, and responded with nothing but a pathetically weak diversion.

You have proven, right here before all of us, that you were never interested in gettng the truth of the ACA straight.

Zing

 

[shira]

No, every one of those statements I identified was a lie.

His statement was that there are no new doctors. That was a lie.

16,000 new IRS agents? The number is also not 1,600. That was a total request for all agents to bring staffing up to where it needed to be, and was not related to the ACA. The number of agents requested to implement the ACA according to the IRS is 291, with less than 100 of them being in enforcement. Claiming a number that is 5,400% higher than what it actually is... is a lie.

As for your ideas about congressional staff and social security, I don't know what to do other than shake my head. The idea that a congressperson would be well versed enough in every policy area to effectively read and understand every bill that comes by them is sheer lunacy. It's just showing a staggering ignorance of how policy works.

So yeah, a bunch of lies and a few statements that display how stupid Trump is. Gee, I wonder why we don't listen to birthers more often. What's funny is that you guys in your desperation are willing to swallow his crap.

Matt1970's post that only one of the statements was "inaccurate" was itself only "an exaggeration." Matt1970 informs us that "exaggerations" are not "inaccurate."

So I'm sure that Matt1970 would agree that stating that 8.7 million more people were employed in the private sector in June is NOT inaccurate; it's merely "an exaggeration" because the actual number of new jobs in June was 80,000, 1% of the "exaggerated" figure.

Edit: Corrected my exaggerated (but not inaccurate) figure of 87,000 new June jobs to the correct figure of 80,000.

 

[feralkid]

 

[Matt1970]

You quoted a statement that contained a bald faced lie, had that LIE pointed out to you, and responded with nothing but a pathetically weak diversion.

You have proven, right here before all of us, that you were never interested in gettng the truth of the ACA straight.

You mean the truth/lie about the mandate being a tax? Oh you mean the numbers.....The Liberals have free reign to use any numbers they wish as long as it's for "A good cause" but Repubs are bold faced liars.

 

[Matt1970]

Matt1970's post that only one of the statements was "inaccurate" was itself only "an exaggeration." Matt1970 informs us that "exaggerations" are not "inaccurate."

So I'm sure that Matt1970 would agree that stating that 8.7 million more people were employed in the private sector in June is NOT inaccurate; it's merely "an exaggeration" because the actual number of new jobs in June was 80,000, 1% of the "exaggerated" figure.

Edit: Corrected my exaggerated (but not inaccurate) figure of 87,000 new June jobs to the correct figure of 80,000.

You guys are countering my numbers with completely inaccurate numbers of your own. And those are not even my numbers, call Trump.

 

[blankslate]

 

[sportage]

The hilarious thing about all the rants from republicans both famous and non famous is that we all know not a single one of them are willing to pay for others to have a free ride.

They actually favor personal responsibility. Just not when the idea is coming from a black president.
Forgoing color of the man in the oval office, they quite agree with personal responsibility.

I can assure you... If Romney gets in we will hear more about personal responsibility, not less. And everyone will be forced just the same to carry health insurance. Yep... Everyone.

The difference is that Romney will expect you to pay thru the nose for whatever high priced cost the insurance industry wants to set to maximum their profits.

Obama, on the other hand, will develope affordable Medicare extensions everyone can afford, or possibly full public payer option for low income to buy into.

Romney and the republicans in power are pulling the perfect illusion on the public.
They will bankrupt millions by forcing involvement in the healthcare for profit system.

Obama, on the other hand, will create affordable solutions.

It's up to you which way you want to go.....

But if you buy into the illusion that Romney and republicans in congress are your best bet when it comes to healthcare reform.... Oh man are you the fool.

 

[Circlenaut]

Planning and doing are 2 different things.

We need doctors now, right now, not next week, not next year, not 2 years from now.

Medical care in rural America is in dire straits. My wife needed a gynecologist for some female problems she was having. We had to drive 1 hour and 15 minutes one way to find a specialist.

That 16,000 doctors is probably only going to replace the ones that are going to be retiring in the next few years.

How many doctors are either dying or retiring, and how many doctors are being added?

16,000 might sound like a lot, but not when you have 20,000 retiring. I do not know if that 20,000 is accurate, its a number I am using for a point of discussion.

When you take population growth, and the number of doctors retiring into consideration, 16,000 new doctors is not a lot.

I don't understand. Did you not realize that everything would be far from everything when you moved out to the boonies? Including medical care? If you're so worried move closer! Otherwise it's a price you need to pay for making your choice, live with it.

 

[shira]

The hilarious thing about all the rants from republicans both famous and non famous is that we all know not a single one of them are willing to pay for others to have a free ride.

They actually favor personal responsibility. Just not when the idea is coming from a black president.
Forgoing color of the man in the oval office, they quite agree with personal responsibility.

I can assure you... If Romney gets in we will hear more about personal responsibility, not less. And everyone will be forced just the same to carry health insurance. Yep... Everyone.

The difference is that Romney will expect you to pay thru the nose for whatever high priced cost the insurance industry wants to set to maximum their profits.

Obama, on the other hand, will develope affordable Medicare extensions everyone can afford, or possibly full public payer option for low income to buy into.

Romney and the republicans in power are pulling the perfect illusion on the public.
They will bankrupt millions by forcing involvement in the healthcare for profit system.

Obama, on the other hand, will create affordable solutions.

It's up to you which way you want to go.....

But if you buy into the illusion that Romney and republicans in congress are your best bet when it comes to healthcare reform.... Oh man are you the fool.

What the rabid right actually believes is that those who cannot afford health insurance should not be subsidized. So, when they get ill and cannot afford health care, they should die.

 

[mattpegher]

I don't understand. Did you not realize that everything would be far from everything when you moved out to the boonies? Including medical care? If you're so worried move closer! Otherwise it's a price you need to pay for making your choice, live with it.

On a related note, I often wonder where people in rural areas that have medicaid think they're going to get care.
I work in a community hospital ED 1 hour outside NYC, but find that there really arent any physicians in the area that accept medicaid. So the other day I had a woman break her leg, and she bold faced told me that she was not going to follow up with an orthopedist because she couldnt afford to. Now in the city you can alway find some doc that accepts medicaid because he either is employed by a large group that has to due to affiliations or has to because he is borderline incompetent. But in the rural areas, that doesnt occur.

I am forced to accept Medicaid due to being an ER doc but that and non-pays are what makes your insured ER visit cost so much.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

Trump is just another Trust Fund Baby. Why people listen to these guys is mind boggling.

 

[epidemis]

Other than a serious shortage of doctors nothing will go wrong.

US currently gets 20% of its physicians from foreign countries. If there's a shortage in the future the US has the luxury of increasing the number of foreign-born physician. In addition medical schools are currently increasing capacity, though I have no inkling whether it will be enough in the future. I wouldn't mind emigrating to USA after I'm done with my candidate.

 

[mattpegher]

US currently gets 20% of its physicians from foreign countries. If there's a shortage in the future the US has the luxury of increasing the number of foreign-born physician. In addition medical schools are currently increasing capacity, though I have no inkling whether it will be enough in the future. I wouldn't mind emigrating to USA after I'm done with my candidate.

You may say that we currently recruit the top physicians from arround the globe to come to the US. This flow is created by the financial reward. As physicians salaries in the US drop, other countries esp in europe where salaries are running a close second (esp for primary care) who are also experiencing a shortage of physician will start to see more imigration at the expense of US supply.

The great question is to what degree US medical schools could make up these numbers without sacrificing the quality of care. Currently national boards are used to establish a minimum standard for license to practice, but like most tests the scores are curved to fit the population. So we could increase the available slots but can the population of american students fill those slots, and could they pass the boards, if the grade was not curved. I for one dont want to see less intelligent physicians in the US, nor do I want to see thousands of students accrue hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt each just to be told that they cannot practice medicine because they are smart enough to pass the boards.

 

[epidemis]

Salaries dropping while experiencing a shortage? That's a tad pessimistic. I think supply/demand will provide adequate physicians.

 

[mattpegher]

Salaries dropping while experiencing a shortage? That's a tad pessimistic. I think supply/demand will provide adequate physicians.

The laws of supply and demand just dont work for medicine. For example:

1. A physicians income is not any greater because of the a shortage of physicians in an area. Often the reimbursement rates are based on local averages such that it pays less to be in a rural area even though there are fewer docs.
2. A doctor cannot charge anything he wants unless he chooses to go 100% cash pay business. Contracts with insurance companies are negotiated given local reimbursement rates for medicare.
3. Most physicians in rural areas are completely booked, and cannot find more docs to hire to cover more patients.