[tt] gtx660

[Crap Daddy]

They have done it again.

http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/49...60_2gb_reference_video_card_review/index.html

 

[Phynaz]

How close were they on the results of the 660ti?

If these are reliable results then this card brings nothing to the table.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Looks decent to me. Might pick one up, if my GTX460 1GB OC WindForce card's last fan dies.

 

[f1sherman]

How close were they on the results of the 660ti?

If these are reliable results then this card brings nothing to the table.

Now where do I hear that before?

Oh that's right - when 660 Ti launched, people were saying the same thing:
"Meh... but I guess it would be an aight card if the price was $200.

But then AMD prices went tumbling down for the third time in a row,
and everyone was like : "NO-OOOOO! AMD WHAT ARE YOU DOING SWEETIE, IT'S NV WHO NEEDS TO LOWER PRICES "

I mean you guys are following the industry. How can you be that much out of touch?

 

[SirPauly]

The sites does indeed get the new sku's!

 

[AtenRa]

I have lost any interest in the GPU department this year, this crap is at $249 ??

 

[Crap Daddy]

I have lost any interest in the GPU department this year, this crap is at $249 ??

While I wouldn't trust TT in any predictions, it will be probably priced the same as the other crap, the AMD one, in it's performance department.

 

[AtenRa]

While I wouldn't trust TT in any predictions, it will be probably priced the same as the other crap, the AMD one, in it's performance department.

Yeap, prices are still crap for 28nm GPUs both AMD and NV.

 

[RussianSensation]

But then AMD prices went tumbling down for the third time in a row,

Thanks for letting us know that when 1 company has a 3-7 months head start and then the competitor releases new products, the normal course of action is to lower prices. This is how the GPU industry generally works

HD7970 = Jan 9, 2012 @ $549 = no competition
HD7950 = Jan 31, 2012 @ $449 = no competition
HD7870 = March 5, 2012 @ $349 = no competition,
HD7850 = March 5, 2012 @ $249 = no competition, etc.

vs.

GTX660Ti = August 16, 2012 @ $299
GTX660 = September 12, 2012 ......

Maybe it's hard for you to understand that many of us consider it a total failure when one company is 6-7 months behind with its 28nm generation mid-range roll-out. All AMD did is exercise its first mover advantage with its 28nm roll-out: They captured the technology lead and maintained higher profit margins as a result. It's NV that's playing catch up here and it's not impressive in the least. The only good thing that came out of it is the expected price wars.

If you actually compare GTX660's performance, it's nothing special against the 7 months old 7870. When you have seen the competing product for 6-7+ months, it's not particularly impressive that you release a card that's as fast for a lower price -- that's what's expected (or you offer more performance such as GTX470/480 series).

This is probably the least impressive NV generation since GeForce 7. In 1 generation NV lost price/performance and single-GPU performance at the same time, and are late by 6-7 months with their mid-range roll-out. If a GPU comes out later than the competition, it has to provide better price/performance or top performance (as was the case with GTX670/680 at their launch). NV had a marketing advantage with GTX660Ti for all but 2-3 days (?) and then lost it again now that you can buy $230-240 7870 and $275-320 7950s. This 660 will still sell well since well people apparently love waiting 7 months to buy similarly performing NV parts because it's Nvidia!!! (and color Green is better than Red apparently). The same people of course won't wait for the far superior HD8000 series that's bound to launch within 7 months though........Their logic for waiting all this time to buy an NV card is bulletproof indeed.

I am waiting for a real review. Since 660Ti is just 9-10% faster than an HD7870 at 1080P, 660 @ $249 doesn't look anything special to me. All it is is just matching the competition 7 months later. Not sure why we should be impressed. When HD5850/5870 launched, that was impressive.

 

[Phynaz]

Now where do I hear that before?

Oh that's right - when 660 Ti launched, people were saying the same thing:
"Meh... but I guess it would be an aight card if the price was $200.

But then AMD prices went tumbling down for the third time in a row,
and everyone was like : "NO-OOOOO! AMD WHAT ARE YOU DOING SWEETIE, IT'S NV WHO NEEDS TO LOWER PRICES "

I mean you guys are following the industry. How can you be that much out of touch?

WTH?

Dude, at $250 this card brings nothing. It just slots in. It brings no new features, no more performance for the price, nothing.

 

[Keysplayr]

If these results are accurate, it looks as the 660 will be equal to 7870.

 

[Keysplayr]

WTH?

Dude, at $250 this card brings nothing. It just slots in. It brings no new features, no more performance for the price, nothing.

You're getting too bent for nothing. Yes it slots in, but it fills in the slot that was vacant on the Kepler 6xx series. And yes it does bring something. A Kepler card comparable in performance and price up against pitcairn.

 

[Phynaz]

As a consumer why do I care that it's Kepler VS Detroit River?

Kepler is just a name. As consumers we compare price / performance (how ever you want to measure performance).

This card does nothing to change that equation in the overall view of the GPU market.

In other words, we already had something to choose from in this price and performance segment. Nvidia did nothing to change the market.

From their viewpoint they don't have to. From mine they do.

 

[RussianSensation]

WTH?
Dude, at $250 this card brings nothing. It just slots in. It brings no new features, no more performance for the price, nothing.

PhysX, 3D Vision, TXAA, AO in the drivers. Also, NVidia quality components > AMD quality components since AMD is 2nd tier budget brand. 7 months late doesn't count since NV > AMD. Why buy an HD7850 for $250 and enjoy it for 7 months when it was a budget brand? Why wait another 6-7 months for the much faster HD8000 series now that GTX660 is available? Not waiting for AMD's budget HD8000 series, sorry.

You're getting too bent for nothing. Yes it slots in, but it fills in the slot that was vacant on the Kepler 6xx series. And yes it does bring something. A Kepler card comparable in performance and price up against pitcairn.

Yes, that's underwhelming. This level of performance was available from an HD7850 OC for 7 months now at $250. Imagine if HD8750/8770 launches 7 months after GTX760, are you serious? If NV wants to make a real difference for gamers, they should drop 660Ti to $249, 670 to $349 and GTX680 to $419. Right now their entire line-up is overpriced.

BTW, 3DCenter already reports 660 as slower than the 7870. Their performance comparisons for all the other cards line-up nicely with TechPowerUP, Computerbase, Xbitlabs, KitGuru, etc. Their chart foreshadows that 660 will lose to a 7870 with MSAA.

 

[f1sherman]

Anybody notice a pattern?

More like... Lack of it

2 months ago 7870 was $349, and no one called it crap. Not even close.
Now we get same perf. for $249, and it's OMG another NV fail.
(it will proly be few % behind it though, so maybe $229 MSRP?)

Calling the GPU a fail, overpriced, too-little-too-late, etc, and than 2 days later, that same overpriced failed GPU crushes whole AMD pricing scheme...??

Out of touch much?

RussianSensation how long you plan to hold the grudge against NV, for being 6-7 monts late?
Time and again this generation, it was NV who brought value to AMD 28nm colonial pricing.

But it's not like NV or AMD are posting record profits. That would be TSMC. Blame them and the physics.
It's pretty obvious that NV is still heavily 28nm constrained. Only 2 chips so far, focus on GK104 and on mobile, 10% less shipped desktop GPUs in the last quarter pretty much proves it.

Yes, that's underwhelming. This level of performance was available from an HD7850 OC for 7 months now at $250.

7970 level of performance was available from GTX 580 OC 2 years before Tahiti came out. RS seriously... Don't you remember that HD7000 brought NOTHING in price/perf when it launched??
Actually several SKUs launched with worse perf/$ than old arch...remember?

 

[Crap Daddy]

If you actually compare GTX660's performance, it's nothing special against the 7 months old 7870. When you have seen the competing product for 6-7+ months, it's not particularly impressive that you release a card that's as fast for a lower price -- that's what's expected (or you offer more performance such as GTX470/480 series).

I'm not sure what you consider special and impressive. You want a mid-range card to perform like a high-end for that money? And again I don't understand why people compare this card to the 7870. I thought the 660Ti was up against that card while delivering performance close to the 7950. This is a card competing with the 7850.

May I remind you that when the 680 was launched it was against the top AMD card, 7970. When the 670 was launched it was up against the 7950 while delivering performance close to the 7970. These two cards made AMD drop prices TO REMAIN COMPETITIVE. Apparently those first price drops were not enough as seen here:

Discrete Q2-2012:
AMD 14,000 units, 42.9% share, -2.1% from Q1, -2.5% from Q2-2011
nvidia 18,600 untis, 57.1% share, +2.1% from Q1, +2.5% from Q2-2011

http://investorvillage.com/smbd.asp?mb=476&mn=244502&pt=msg&mid=12013727

So we have another price drop from AMD and why is that? Because nobody is impressed with what NV is offering? The 600 series brought better performance than the 7000 series. That is why AMD CANNOT SELL a 7970 at 500$, a 7950 at 400$ and a 7870 at 300$. When NV will drop the prices for all their cards then it will be because THE MARKET decides that those cards are no longer worth the initial price.

 

[f1sherman]

BTW, 3DCenter already reports 660 as slower than the 7870. Their performance comparisons for all the other cards line-up nicely with TechPowerUP, Computerbase, Xbitlabs, KitGuru, etc. Their chart foreshadows that 660 will lose to a 7870 with MSAA.

With 16 ROPs compared to 32 of full GK104, I am sure of it

 

[notty22]

Where are you getting 16 rop's ?

 

[AtenRa]

2 months ago 7870 was $349, and no one called it crap. Not even close.

I and many more have busted AMD for the 28nm GPU prices from day one

Now we get same perf. for $249, and it's OMG another NV fail.
(it will proly be few % behind it though, so maybe $229 MSRP?)

Do you remember what you had for $250 last year ??? HD6950 and GTX560Ti. Now you pay the same price for the same performance as last year. I call this CRAP for both AMD and NV GPUs.

That would be TSMC. Blame them and the physics.
It's pretty obvious that NV is still heavily 28nm constrained.

I dont give a flying f...k if AMD or NV are 28nm constrained, that's their problem not mine. My problem is that i have to pay the same for the performance i had last year. 9 months since the HD7970 was released and prices are still CRAP for both.

Hmm, GTX460 was launched at $199 exactly 9 months after the HD58xx series. NVIDIA’s GeForce GTX 460: The $200 King

 

[f1sherman]

Where are you getting 16 rop's ?

Trying to remember... think I saw it on arabworld.com or something like that

@AtenRa Well I agree with you. I was trying to put all this into perspective. But in grand pricing scheme this gen, I agree with you totally

$200 GPU equaling previous gen. king of the hill in performance, is what I consider reasonable price/perf.

 

[brandon888]

PhysX, 3D Vision, TXAA, AO in the drivers. Also, NVidia quality components > AMD quality components since AMD is 2nd tier budget brand. 7 months late doesn't count since NV > AMD. Why buy an HD7850 for $250 and enjoy it for 7 months when it was a budget brand? Why wait another 6-7 months for the much faster HD8000 series now that GTX660 is available? Not waiting for AMD's budget HD8000 series, sorry.

i don't understand why are such a BIG AMD FAN ! i have nothing vs AMD but a have seen most of your posts

Yes Nvidia marketing can blame most of people ... but it still has a better name then amd ! and can afford higher prices ! that's so simple

 

[toyota]

Trying to remember... think I saw it on arabworld.com or something like that

it has to be 24 rops if the 660 is 192 bit.

 

[SirPauly]

Thanks for letting us know that when 1 company has a 3-7 months head start and then the competitor releases new products, the normal course of action is to lower prices. This is how the GPU industry generally works

HD7970 = Jan 9, 2012 @ $549 = no competition
HD7950 = Jan 31, 2012 @ $449 = no competition
HD7870 = March 5, 2012 @ $349 = no competition,
HD7850 = March 5, 2012 @ $249 = no competition, etc.

vs.

GTX660Ti = August 16, 2012 @ $299
GTX660 = September 12, 2012 ......

Maybe it's hard for you to understand that many of us consider it a total failure when one company is 6-7 months behind with its 28nm generation mid-range roll-out. All AMD did is exercise its first mover advantage with its 28nm roll-out: They captured the technology lead and maintained higher profit margins as a result. It's NV that's playing catch up here and it's not impressive in the least. The only good thing that came out of it is the expected price wars.

If you actually compare GTX660's performance, it's nothing special against the 7 months old 7870. When you have seen the competing product for 6-7+ months, it's not particularly impressive that you release a card that's as fast for a lower price -- that's what's expected (or you offer more performance such as GTX470/480 series).

This is probably the least impressive NV generation since GeForce 7. In 1 generation NV lost price/performance and single-GPU performance at the same time, and are late by 6-7 months with their mid-range roll-out. If a GPU comes out later than the competition, it has to provide better price/performance or top performance (as was the case with GTX670/680 at their launch). NV had a marketing advantage with GTX660Ti for all but 2-3 days (?) and then lost it again now that you can buy $230-240 7870 and $275-320 7950s. This 660 will still sell well since well people apparently love waiting 7 months to buy similarly performing NV parts because it's Nvidia!!! (and color Green is better than Red apparently). The same people of course won't wait for the far superior HD8000 series that's bound to launch within 7 months though........Their logic for waiting all this time to buy an NV card is bulletproof indeed.

I am waiting for a real review. Since 660Ti is just 9-10% faster than an HD7870 at 1080P, 660 @ $249 doesn't look anything special to me. All it is is just matching the competition 7 months later. Not sure why we should be impressed. When HD5850/5870 launched, that was impressive.

I'm surprised nVidia is selling any GPU's -- good thing they have their marketing tricksters.

 

[f1sherman]

it has to be 24 rops if the 660 is 192 bit.

Like it has to be 1.5GB if it's 192bit MC? I'd give NV more credit than that.

Further more 3DCenter is saying GTX 660 is GK-106. But they also report ~240mm2 which imho sounds a bit fishy.

 

[SirPauly]

Further more 3DCenter is saying GTX 660 is GK-106. But they also report ~240mm2 which imho does not make much sense.

That may make some sense based on the cuda core count.