[tt] gtx660

[antihelten]

It's not based on the same gpu as the gtx660ti (GK104) . This gpu will be a smaller die GK 106
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 and GTX 650 Launch Together on September 12

Much like there are 1100mhz 7870's sold, which still have overhead. I'm sure the factory o/c models for the 660 will probably approach 1100mhz ? We will know shortly.

Just looked at the 3D-center article, and it seems it's the OEM version of the GTX 660 that's based on the GK 104, where as the retail one should be based on the GK 106 as you say. Hopefully that means overclocking comparable to the rest of the Kepler family, but with significantly lower power draw, will be interesting to see those numbers.

 

[notty22]

Single 6 pin, 140 watt tdp.

http://wccftech.com/nvidia-geforce-gtx-660-performance-estimated-faster-hd-7870/
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 and GTX 650 Reference Models Pictured

 

[Dark Shroud]

Maybe this time the review sites will use the AMD 12.8 drivers when doing the bench marks.

And or course factory over clocked AMD cards delivered with snow balls from Lucifer himself.

 

[Keysplayr]

Did you buy both an AMD and Nvidia card that you game on? It's not fair to call someone biased and blind that has both. They put their money where their mouth is at the very least, and they get to experience the hardware first hand so they can offer insight into both.

Did you just say, that you have to have both AMD and Nvidia cards to be considered non-biased? Man, think before you type.

 

[Silverforce11]

It's not based on the same gpu as the gtx660ti (GK104) . This gpu will be a smaller die GK 106
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 and GTX 650 Launch Together on September 12

Much like there are 1100mhz 7870's sold, which still have overhead. I'm sure the factory o/c models for the 660 will probably approach 1100mhz ? We will know shortly.

There's no reason to think gk106 won't have the same clock potential. Everything on 28nm so far seem to top out at ~1.3ghz on the core. Some go higher with heaps of vcore, but its a rarity.

Therefore 660 should with good custom models manage to hit 1.2ghz+ boost.

Would be a nice card if priced ~$220, slotting right in. It's TDP of 140W (in games it should be less) is also nice, fitting with the 7850 and 7870 which draw ~100-120W peak in games. NV doesn't have to offer better perf/$, they just have to be comparable and it should outsell anything AMD can offer.

 

[Crap Daddy]

I never said NV should quit making GPUs. I am saying launching an $200-300 28nm desktop lineup 6-8 months later is not impressive. NV has already seen what AMD has so of course they can easily price their cards under and make themselves look good. Big deal. What does NV have to answer to all the gamers who couldn't buy a $250-300 28nm GPU for 3 quarters of this year? You can agree or disagree but NV is losing this generation in my eyes because being late by 6+ months in the world of technology is huge.

HD7870 and HD7850 were paper launched on the 4th of March with availability after the 20th at 350$ and 250$ respectively. We are talking 5 months and one week under 6 months (660Ti launch 15 Aug and GTX660 12 Sep). Don't tell me that the 7870 and the 7850 were great value at launch price while being around 8% faster than the same priced (at launch) previous generation 6970/6950.

So what do you do as a gamer? Buy overpriced cards or wait until price drops? If you come from Mars then you buy whatever card suits your budget. But if you have 6970/6950/GTX570/GTX560Ti? Do you buy a card that's 8% faster for 350$/250$?

So it is one month since AMD was forced to drop prices to a reasonable level because NV launched better cards at competitive prices. Is that bad for you? Is it late for you?

Is it late after one month of affordable prices for a gamer who has a HD6870/HD5850/GTX560/GTX460 to get a GTX660Ti/GTX660 or a discounted 7870/7850? I don't think so. I think it's the right time.

 

[Silverforce11]

7870 was terrible value at launch, no contest, i've always recommended 7850s ONLY IF the user is willing to OC.

At $250, good custom cooled 7850s were cranking 1.2ghz+ easily, thats as fast as an OC gtx580, which at those times were still going for $400-500, while using <150W. That's not good value? The expectations of 28nm would be 580 perf at half power use and price.

 

[raghu78]

HD7870 and HD7850 were paper launched on the 4th of March with availability after the 20th at 350$ and 250$ respectively. We are talking 5 months and one week under 6 months (660Ti launch 15 Aug and GTX660 12 Sep). Don't tell me that the 7870 and the 7850 were great value at launch price while being around 8% faster than the same priced (at launch) previous generation 6970/6950.

So what do you do as a gamer? Buy overpriced cards or wait until price drops? If you come from Mars then you buy whatever card suits your budget. But if you have 6970/6950/GTX570/GTX560Ti? Do you buy a card that's 8% faster for 350$/250$?

So it is one month since AMD was forced to drop prices to a reasonable level because NV launched better cards at competitive prices. Is that bad for you? Is it late for you?

Is it late after one month of affordable prices for a gamer who has a HD6870/HD5850/GTX560/GTX460 to get a GTX660Ti/GTX660 or a discounted 7870/7850? I don't think so. I think it's the right time.

the HD 7850 was a good deal even at launch. People who purchased the HD 7850 at USD 250 in March did not get a bad deal. The OC headroom and performance scaling with overclocks meant that a HD 7850 at 1.2 Ghz got you perf close to GTX 580 for almost half the cost and power.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/HD_7850_Power_Edition/31.html

GTX 560 Ti or HD 6950 which were selling at similar prices do not have similar OC headroom and also do not scale anywhere close to the HD 7850. frankly HD 7850 was one of the best selling cards in AMD's product stack and was constantly out of stock in the initial couple of months. In fact the HD 7870 was the card which was overpriced. It deserved only to be priced 50 bucks more than HD 7850. But since nVidia GTX 570 was slower than HD 7870, AMD had no business selling at USD 300 and losing margins especially when they were supply constrained on 28nm right till end of Q2.

TSMC clearly said from Q3 the volumes of 28nm production would be much improved and thats what we are seeing. Nvidia launching their USD 300 and lesser products and AMD cutting prices to reflect the competitive situation.

Nvidia was not interested in pushing GTX 660 Ti out earlier because they had significant unsold GTX 570 inventory in early June

http://www.kitguru.net/components/g...-gtx570-overstock-delays-gtx660-until-august/

No point in blaming any company. We can only choose products which suit our budgets when we want to make a purchase. Frankly HD 7850 was the best price perf card till mid July to mid August when the HD 7950 came down to USD 320. At current prices the HD 7950 is the best price perf card and the card to get.

 

[Crap Daddy]

At $250, good custom cooled 7850s were cranking 1.2ghz+ easily, thats as fast as an OC gtx580, which at those times were still going for $400-500, while using <150W. That's not good value? The expectations of 28nm would be 580 perf at half power use and price.

The 7850 was the only card that offered a reasonable perf/price from the entire AMD 7000 series but not out of the box. In fact it was the only recommendable buy for a new card at that price point. That's before Kepler was launched. Now it's debatable and prices are all over the place for the 7000 series.

For example you can get an XFX 7870 at 230$ at newegg after rebates but the same XFX 7850 is 235$??

On the other hand like you say, from the TT "preview" we see that the 660 offer GTX580 performance out of the box while probably costing half and using half power.

 

[n0x1ous]

It's too bad AMD is the fastest card available though, isn't it

Wrong. 690 > ALL

 

[Silverforce11]

The 7850 was the only card that offered a reasonable perf/price from the entire AMD 7000 series but not out of the box. In fact it was the only recommendable buy for a new card at that price point. That's before Kepler was launched. Now it's debatable and prices are all over the place for the 7000 series.

For example you can get an XFX 7870 at 230$ at newegg after rebates but the same XFX 7850 is 235$??

On the other hand like you say, from the TT "preview" we see that the 660 offer GTX580 performance out of the box while probably costing half and using half power.

Custom 7850s are <$200 now, 7870 is $230-240.

Also, from the same TT preview, in games that favor NV so just compare NV cards vs each other, see the 4x AA and 16x AF tests. The 660 is significantly worse than a gtx580(!!).

 

[Silverforce11]

Wrong. 690 > ALL

No, 7990 > All.

 

[n0x1ous]

No, 7990 > All.

7990 is not a real product from AMD

 

[blastingcap]

the HD 7850 was a good deal even at launch. People who purchased the HD 7850 at USD 250 in March did not get a bad deal. The OC headroom and performance scaling with overclocks meant that a HD 7850 at 1.2 Ghz got you perf close to GTX 580 for almost half the cost and power.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/HD_7850_Power_Edition/31.html

GTX 560 Ti or HD 6950 which were selling at similar prices do not have similar OC headroom and also do not scale anywhere close to the HD 7850. frankly HD 7850 was one of the best selling cards in AMD's product stack and was constantly out of stock in the initial couple of months. In fact the HD 7870 was the card which was overpriced. It deserved only to be priced 50 bucks more than HD 7850. But since nVidia GTX 570 was slower than HD 7870, AMD had no business selling at USD 300 and losing margins especially when they were supply constrained on 28nm right till end of Q2.

TSMC clearly said from Q3 the volumes of 28nm production would be much improved and thats what we are seeing. Nvidia launching their USD 300 and lesser products and AMD cutting prices to reflect the competitive situation.

Nvidia was not interested in pushing GTX 660 Ti out earlier because they had significant unsold GTX 570 inventory in early June

http://www.kitguru.net/components/g...-gtx570-overstock-delays-gtx660-until-august/

No point in blaming any company. We can only choose products which suit our budgets when we want to make a purchase. Frankly HD 7850 was the best price perf card till mid July to mid August when the HD 7950 came down to USD 320. At current prices the HD 7950 is the best price perf card and the card to get.

This. And also NV makes WAY more money on pro cards, which is yet another reason why GTX 680 prices haven't dropped much despite AMD's price drops. You make way more putting those chips into Tesla/Quadro cards than you do GeForce. NV seems more and more focused on non-GeForce moneymaking opportunities, as well it should be. The GTX 670 and 660 Ti are harvested parts so even though they aren't Tesla/Quadro-able, they are naturally limited in quantity so their prices can get only so low as well, unless NV artificially creates a bunch of them via laser cuts or something.

Since the GTX 660 is on its own die, expect NV to have more pricing flexibility. Especially if TSMC 28nm capacity and yields keep growing.

P.S. GK106 die shots and benchmark: http://www.techpowerup.com/171572/NVIDIA-GK106-GPU-Pictured-GeForce-GTX-660-Benchmarked.html

 

[chimaxi83]

7990 is not a real product from AMD

Hey, whatever you have to tell yourself

 

[tviceman]

No, 7990 > All.

Wrong.

The same price, higher power consumption, lower performance, and lower performance per watt. Nothing is better about it.

 

[f1sherman]

And also NV makes WAY more money on pro cards, which is yet another reason why GTX 680 prices haven't dropped much despite AMD's price drops. You make way more putting those chips into Tesla/Quadro cards than you do GeForce.

Take a look at Q2 and see that it was Geforce that drove the profit. Tegra margins are slim and needs even more babysitting than Pro, which accidentally was down.
GeForce eats tons of Pro costs, but is still the most important Nvidia asset - by far. And it doesn't look like this will change any time soon.

NV seems more and more focused on non-GeForce moneymaking opportunities, as well it should be.

That is correct, but not in a way you suggest.

 

[Silverforce11]

wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Powercolor/HD_7990_Devil_13/25.html
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Powercolor/HD_7990_Devil_13/27.html
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Powercolor/HD_7990_Devil_13/28.html

The same price, higher power consumption, lower performance, and lower performance per watt. Nothing is better about it.

WRONG.

Defective card, as per Powercolor's admission and TPU's opening statement.

http://www.hardwareheaven.com/revie...d-7990-graphics-card-review-introduction.html

Another review but you can find that link in the 7990 thread. Here's a few from that review:

But do see the HH review, with a focus on more recent dx11 games, eye opener for those who think 690 is faster.

 

[tviceman]

I really don't understand why everyone is so completely upset about every single Nvidia release. If nvidia releases a product that slots in at a price point appropriate to competition, then it is going to increase performance and eventually instigate a price war. GK106 looks like it is going to end up performing better than many people thought (see this thread), may end up consuming less power for the same performance, and yet people are continuing to complain.

Unexciting? Yes. But good anyways? Yes.

 

[The Alias]

Wrong.

The same price, higher power consumption, lower performance, and lower performance per watt. Nothing is better about it.

that was a defective card http://www.hardwareheaven.com/revie...d-7990-graphics-card-review-introduction.html here's a real out of the box working sample

 

[f1sherman]

GTX 660 doesn't need to outperform 7870. Outperforming it clearly would be a failed offering.

5% slower than 7870, 5/6 SMX, 180mm2 is my guess

 

[tviceman]

WRONG.

Defective card, as per Powercolor's admission and TPU's opening statement.

http://www.hardwareheaven.com/revie...d-7990-graphics-card-review-introduction.html

Another review but you can find that link in the 7990 thread.

Just so we're clear - a card that consumes considerably more power (70 watts), dumps it all back into a case, is unstable out of the box, and is louder than the gtx690 is better, right? OMG1FAMNF reviewers received defective 590's where are the pitchforks now? You would rather have the hd7990 than the gtx690?

 

[railven]

I really don't understand why everyone is so completely upset about every single Nvidia release. If nvidia releases a product that slots in at a price point appropriate to competition, then it is going to increase performance and eventually instigate a price war. GK106 looks like it is going to end up performing better than many people thought (see this thread), may end up consuming less power for the same performance, and yet people are continuing to complain.

Unexciting? Yes. But good anyways? Yes.

I'm not upset. Why would I be? These recent releases have done what I've been saying since I bought my cards in March - once competition arrives, prices will adjust.

Win/win for consumers! Only people who seem to get mad for whatever reason care more about their preferred company's bottom-line then the products on the shelves.

I can't believe people scoff at price cuts like it's a bad thing!

 

[The Alias]

I really don't understand why everyone is so completely upset about every single Nvidia release. If nvidia releases a product that slots in at a price point appropriate to competition, then it is going to increase performance and eventually instigate a price war. GK106 looks like it is going to end up performing better than many people thought (see this thread), may end up consuming less power for the same performance, and yet people are continuing to complain.

Unexciting? Yes. But good anyways? Yes.

I think people are disappointed because it is months late to the game and it under performs for it's price

 

[Silverforce11]

Just so we're clear - a card that consumes considerably more power (70 watts), dumps it all back into a case, is unstable out of the box, and is louder than the gtx690 is better, right?

70W is considerable? For a DUAL GPU setup? Are you not caring about the particular segment these cards are aimed at...

Unstable because Powercolor forgot their QC, which they admitted and fixed. Thanks to TPU's review.

What i care about is its significant lead in newer dx11 games. Where it loses to the 690, it loses in older games or the frame rate is so high the difference is irrelevant. Where it wins, it wins big in frame rate limited new games. That makes it a better card.. that and as stated by HH, the 690's 2gb framebuffer limited higher AA modes in their tests.

But please, back to the 660.