[tt] gtx660

[ocre]

Thanks for letting us know that when 1 company has a 3-7 months head start and then the competitor releases new products, the normal course of action is to lower prices. This is how the GPU industry generally works

HD7970 = Jan 9, 2012 @ $549 = no competition
HD7950 = Jan 31, 2012 @ $449 = no competition
HD7870 = March 5, 2012 @ $349 = no competition,
HD7850 = March 5, 2012 @ $249 = no competition, etc.

vs.

GTX660Ti = August 16, 2012 @ $299
GTX660 = September 12, 2012 ......

Maybe it's hard for you to understand that many of us consider it a total failure when one company is 6-7 months behind with its 28nm generation mid-range roll-out. All AMD did is exercise its first mover advantage with its 28nm roll-out: They captured the technology lead and maintained higher profit margins as a result. It's NV that's playing catch up here and it's not impressive in the least. The only good thing that came out of it is the expected price wars.

If you actually compare GTX660's performance, it's nothing special against the 7 months old 7870. When you have seen the competing product for 6-7+ months, it's not particularly impressive that you release a card that's as fast for a lower price -- that's what's expected (or you offer more performance such as GTX470/480 series).

This is probably the least impressive NV generation since GeForce 7. In 1 generation NV lost price/performance and single-GPU performance at the same time, and are late by 6-7 months with their mid-range roll-out. If a GPU comes out later than the competition, it has to provide better price/performance or top performance (as was the case with GTX670/680 at their launch). NV had a marketing advantage with GTX660Ti for all but 2-3 days (?) and then lost it again now that you can buy $230-240 7870 and $275-320 7950s. This 660 will still sell well since well people apparently love waiting 7 months to buy similarly performing NV parts because it's Nvidia!!! (and color Green is better than Red apparently). The same people of course won't wait for the far superior HD8000 series that's bound to launch within 7 months though........Their logic for waiting all this time to buy an NV card is bulletproof indeed.

I am waiting for a real review. Since 660Ti is just 9-10% faster than an HD7870 at 1080P, 660 @ $249 doesn't look anything special to me. All it is is just matching the competition 7 months later. Not sure why we should be impressed. When HD5850/5870 launched, that was impressive.

So that pretty much settles it. There is absolutely no chance that you will like anything coming from nvidia at this point on. They have to have cards at different prices, that is how it works. You have already decided against anything coming from them yet your here to spout negative nvidia pro AMD propaganda to no end.

Nvidia is late. We hear you say this over and over like a broken record. So i guess they should just quit the business. Then you will have nothing to complain about and perhaps live a full happy life paying those premium AMD prices. As already stated, nvidia alone has caused at least this much: lower 28n prices. It might hurt you to see that even this card has the potential to help bring prices even lower, given time it surely will.

But this is besides the point. You have already decided this card to be a "total failure" because its "late". There is nothing or no one who can change that. It appears you have made this position clear and it would be nice if you would just chill out and let people have a discussion without you crapping all over it. Besides, its a total failure card to you anyway and you really should be spending time in all those AMD GPU 100% success threads, winning and everything.

Bashing nvidia may be your favorite past time but there are a lot of people who look for more out of new gpu threads.....believe me!!!

 

[ncstateguy87]

Is NV expected to wait this long again until the next generation? I am looking for that $250ish card and it seems the 7850/7870 will be it.

Eh, I have always gone NV for mobile and was waiting for something from them, too little too late.

 

[AnandThenMan]

So that pretty much settles it. There is absolutely no chance that you will like anything coming from nvidia at this point on.

I don't believe this at all. If Nvidia beats AMD and launches a Kepler refresh before we see the 8000 series, then RS will rightfully commend Nvidia. But currently, AMD offers more value/$, and it is easy to be disappointed that Nvidia is half a year late and doesn't offer a more compelling choice.

 

[3DVagabond]

Is NV expected to wait this long again until the next generation? I am looking for that $250ish card and it seems the 7850/7870 will be it.

Eh, I have always gone NV for mobile and was waiting for something from them, too little too late.

Being too little too late is the whole problem. +1

 

[RussianSensation]

So that pretty much settles it. There is absolutely no chance that you will like anything coming from nvidia at this point on.

No, you said that. I still recommend 660Ti/670 depending on user and if NV drops prices on their current line-up, I'll have no problem recommending them again. You see I change my recommendation based on market conditions, performance, newer games, prices. Initially I recommended 670/680 cards since they offered better price/performance over 7950/7970 cards when they launched. Right now nV needs to re-adjusts prices and then I will have no problem recommending their cards over AMD's cards. At current prices, I don't think NV is delivering great value overall. If GTX660 only equals 7870 at $249, how would that change the GPU landscape when 7870 is already going for $220-240 and has been dropping to $250 for months?

They have to have cards at different prices, that is how it works.

Yes, that's why you can use FPS / $ or price/performance to get an idea of what you are paying for a certain level of performance.

You have already decided against anything coming from them yet your here to spout negative nvidia pro AMD propaganda to no end. Nvidia is late. We hear you say this over and over like a broken record. So i guess they should just quit the business.

I never said NV should quit making GPUs. I am saying launching an $200-300 28nm desktop lineup 6-8 months later is not impressive. NV has already seen what AMD has so of course they can easily price their cards under and make themselves look good. Big deal. What does NV have to answer to all the gamers who couldn't buy a $250-300 28nm GPU for 3 quarters of this year? You can agree or disagree but NV is losing this generation in my eyes because being late by 6+ months in the world of technology is huge. If you don't think it's a big deal, why not wait another 6 months for HD8000 series? NV only had 1 quarter window where they offered great price/performance and overall performance at the $400-500 price level. Everything below that price level, they didn't have a single 28nm part for sale on the desktop. Since June they also lost price/performance and overall single-GPU performance. It doesn't mean they lost this generation yet, but so far they are delivering less value. You should know I recommend heavily towards price/performance which is why 7950/7970 cards weren't recommended by me when 670/680 launched. You didn't seem to have a problem when I recommended those cards based on price/performance metric against 7950/7970. I recall specifically stating when 680/670 launched that AMD needed to drop prices.

But this is besides the point. You have already decided this card to be a "total failure" because its "late". There is nothing or no one who can change that. It appears you have made this position clear and it would be nice if you would just chill out and let people have a discussion without you crapping all over it.

In the 10+ years of GPU discussions here, launching late from AMD or NV and not delivering better price/performance has always been criticized. This is not the first time. Luckily for us gamers, in the past AMD/ATI and NV tended to launch within 1-3 months of each other. This time NV is half a generation late with its mid-range line-up. Fermi was 6 months late but it offered major advantages:

1) Superior tessellation performance;
2) More VRAM (1.28 - 1.5GB);
3) Good overclocking headroom for 470/480 parts;
4) Amazing performance/$ in the 460 OC;
5) Great gaming bundles (not just 1 game): Just Cause 2, Mafia II, Metro 2033 were all free with many 460/470/480 card purchases.

GTX660/660Ti are none of these things, despite being 6-7 months late.

What does a 660 offer to HD6950/GTX570 users that HD7850/7870 didn't already offer for 6-7 months? Not much. In other words, unless AMD lowers prices even more because of the 660's launch, it's not adding any more price/performance value to the GPU landscape at this point. It's too little too late. Soon we'll be talking about GTX700/HD8000 series. You keep insisting that 2.5 quarters late isn't a big deal for gamers who couldn't buy any 28nm NV GPU under $400 until recently. I recall GTX460 launched just 1 quarter after GTX470/480 did. This is the slowest roll-out from NV in ages. If AMD did the same, I would have been just as vocal. September 12th is 9 months after the first 28nm HD7000 SKU launched on the desktop. That's unheard of. This is exactly the same reason HD7990 is a disappointment in my eyes - it's too late now vs. the 690.

 

[skipsneeky2]

Seems the 7870 and the gtx660 are damn close in performance,nvidia is in some deep poopy poo if they can't price this close to the 7850.

gts650 anyone?Is such a card in the run or we are gonna get another retarded se like a gtx660 se?

To early to judge performance if this crapper site is benchmarking games i was purchasing in 2008 LOL,where the hell is a reputable website benchmarking BF3 and games of that sort?

I quit playing Farcry 2 when i got into BC2 in late 2010,how the hell is such a game still being listed in a active benchmark list?

WHO the hell stil plays Farcry 2?Anyone?I can't rant enough how crappy that review is,but the numbers do speak louder then words,sub par performance matching 7870.....

 

[RussianSensation]

A high quality HD7870 can already be purchased for $235 with Sleeping Dogs. Still not seeing what the point of a $249 GTX660 is. 660Ti is 9% faster than the 7870 at 1080P. How much faster can the 660 possibly be, 3-4%? Not changing the landscape here at all. Basically a rather pointless release at $250 it seems.

 

[Keysplayr]

A high quality HD7870 can already be purchased for $235 with Sleeping Dogs. Still not seeing what the point of a $249 GTX660 is. 660Ti is 9% faster than the 7870 at 1080P. How much faster can the 660 possibly be, 3-4%? Not changing the landscape here at all. Basically a rather pointless release at $250 it seems.

Aaaaanyway. Looks to be a competitive card at a competitive price.

 

[Phynaz]

Nvidia already made a difference forcing AMD to extreme price cuts and that is no small deal.

Well then, thanks to Nvidia, I'm getting a HD 7850

 

[Phynaz]

So that pretty much settles it. There is absolutely no chance that you will like anything coming from nvidia at this point on.
...
Bashing nvidia may be your favorite past time but there are a lot of people who look for more out of new gpu threads.....believe me!!!

RS is one of the most unbiased people that post here.

You should chill on him not be so emotional about the facts he posts.

 

[chimaxi83]

Thanks Nvidia, for the $380 7970 that beats my 680 at everything I play! :wub: best company evarrr

 

[Keysplayr]

Thanks Nvidia, for the $380 7970 that beats my 680 at everything I play! :wub: best company evarrr

You and Phynaz finally coming around. :thumbsup:

 

[chimaxi83]

You and Phynaz finally coming around. :thumbsup:

Unlike some of you people, I'm not blind and biased to clear facts. If it was like Intel/AMD, where Intel is clearly the better choice, then maybe I'd be as biased as some of you guys. It's too bad AMD is the fastest card available though, isn't it? That's why I have one of their cards, and threw my 680 in my sons machine.

 

[Keysplayr]

Unlike some of you people, I'm not blind and biased to clear facts. If it was like Intel/AMD, where Intel is clearly the better choice, then maybe I'd be as biased as some of you guys. It's too bad AMD is the fastest card available though, isn't it? That's why I have one of their cards, and threw my 680 in my sons machine.

Oh I seriously beg to differ there my friend. I'm pretty amazed though that you actually thought that anyone would buy what you just said about not being biased and blind.

I mean that's just not going to happen.

 

[AnandThenMan]

Oh I seriously beg to differ there my friend. I'm pretty amazed though that you actually thought that anyone would buy what you just said about not being biased and blind.

I mean that's just not going to happen.

Did you buy both an AMD and Nvidia card that you game on? It's not fair to call someone biased and blind that has both. They put their money where their mouth is at the very least, and they get to experience the hardware first hand so they can offer insight into both.

 

[chimaxi83]

Oh I seriously beg to differ there my friend. I'm pretty amazed though that you actually thought that anyone would buy what you just said about not being biased and blind.

I mean that's just not going to happen.

I'm sure that if I was getting free Nvidia equipment, I'd sound like you too.

Back on topic, the useless GTX 660. Discuss.

 

[AnandThenMan]

If I had not bought a GTX670 I would have got a 660Ti instead, although I'm glad I went with the 670 in retrospect.

 

[blastingcap]

Now where do I hear that before?

Oh that's right - when 660 Ti launched, people were saying the same thing:
"Meh... but I guess it would be an aight card if the price was $200.

But then AMD prices went tumbling down for the third time in a row,
and everyone was like : "NO-OOOOO! AMD WHAT ARE YOU DOING SWEETIE, IT'S NV WHO NEEDS TO LOWER PRICES "

I mean you guys are following the industry. How can you be that much out of touch?

In all of your rants saying this, you don't seem to have acknowledged that TSMC 28nm maturation and higher yields have anything to do with the ability of both NV and AMD to lower prices over time, or that AMD's launches took place well before NV's.

Further, as you admitted, NV is 28nm constrained. They have an incentive to devote 28nm production to pro graphics which are far, far more lucrative than GeForce. They won't entirely abandon the GeForce consumer segment but GeForce users are probably getting whatever NV deems adequate to hold its market share and not much more... if NV lowered prices it would increase demand, but they wouldn't be able to meet that demand anyway. AMD seems less constrained, maybe because their pro graphics market share sucks so they can devote more GPUs to HD7xxx instead, and thus are more price elastic.

So yes NV does have something to do with lower AMD prices but you don't seem to have considered the above in full.

 

[Borealis7]

the amount of sarcasm in this thread IS OVER 9000!

 

[Silverforce11]

Back on topic, the useless GTX 660. Discuss.

Its just overpriced, with some cuts it will be a very compelling product to compete against both the 7850 and 7870, and something NV sorely needs as these ~$200 cards are the biggest sellers.

Another point, the thing about its performance tanking with AA, doesn't really matter when its the ~$200 segment. These gamers don't tend to push high res, high AA etc. It would be a slight negative only. The problem with the 660ti tanking is at $300.. we're heading into high-end segment and the expectations are different here.

 

[Xcobra]

Man, I am glad I decided to skip this generation. But then again, I've been saying that for a couple of generations now.

 

[3DVagabond]

the amount of sarcasm in this thread IS OVER 9000!

Yeah, it's pretty entertaining.

 

[antihelten]

Just went through the numbers in the TweakTown review, and the GTX 660 comes out as being 85.6% of a GTX 660 ti at 1920x1200 without AA.

Computerbase.de puts an HD 7870 at 94% of a GTX 660 ti at 1920x1080 without AA.

Taken together that would make an HD 7870 9.8% faster than a GTX 660. (I didn't compare the 7870 and the 660 results from the tweaktown review directly, to avoid bias in their game selection)

Another interesting fact is that the GTX 660 has a base clock of 980 MHz and a boost clock of 1033 MHz, which is quite high compared to a GTX 660 ti or a GTX 670. This combined with the fact that alot of the chips are likely salvaged chips, that couldn't make it as a GTX 660 ti or GTX 670, would possibly indicate that the GTX 660 isn't going to be a particularly good overclocker (compared to the rest of the Kepler family).

 

[3DVagabond]

Just went through the numbers in the TweakTown review, and the GTX 660 comes out as being 85.6% of a GTX 660 ti at 1920x1200 without AA.

Computerbase.de puts an HD 7870 at 94% of a GTX 660 ti at 1920x1080 without AA.

Taken together that would make an HD 7870 9.8% faster than a GTX 660. (I didn't compare the 7870 and the 660 results from the tweaktown review directly, to avoid bias in their game selection)

Another interesting fact is that the GTX 660 has a base clock of 980 MHz and a boost clock of 1033 MHz, which is quite high compared to a GTX 660 ti or a GTX 670. This combined with the fact that alot of the chips are likely salvaged chips, that couldn't make it as a GTX 660 ti or GTX 670, would possibly indicate that the GTX 660 isn't going to be a particularly good overclocker (compared to the rest of the Kepler family).

I'm thinking that when both are O/C'd, with AA the 7850 might beat it. :sneaky:

 

[notty22]

Just went through the numbers in the TweakTown review, and the GTX 660 comes out as being 85.6% of a GTX 660 ti at 1920x1200 without AA.

Computerbase.de puts an HD 7870 at 94% of a GTX 660 ti at 1920x1080 without AA.

Taken together that would make an HD 7870 9.8% faster than a GTX 660. (I didn't compare the 7870 and the 660 results from the tweaktown review directly, to avoid bias in their game selection)

Another interesting fact is that the GTX 660 has a base clock of 980 MHz and a boost clock of 1033 MHz, which is quite high compared to a GTX 660 ti or a GTX 670. This combined with the fact that alot of the chips are likely salvaged chips, that couldn't make it as a GTX 660 ti or GTX 670, would possibly indicate that the GTX 660 isn't going to be a particularly good overclocker (compared to the rest of the Kepler family).

It's not based on the same gpu as the gtx660ti (GK104) . This gpu will be a smaller die GK 106
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 and GTX 650 Launch Together on September 12

Much like there are 1100mhz 7870's sold, which still have overhead. I'm sure the factory o/c models for the 660 will probably approach 1100mhz ? We will know shortly.