united states of amerika

[alien42]

unreal

if you are american and this does not upset you then nothing will. this is another fine example of the the right wing nut jobs stripping our rights away. this is extremely upsetting.

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Originally posted by: alien42
unreal

if you are american and this does not upset you then nothing will. this is another fine example of the the right wing nut jobs stripping our rights away. this is extremely upsetting.

and no comment on all the wonderful things the Boston police did to curtail peaceful methods of protest. You can google gobs of this stuff if you just try.


Look, get it straight.

the conventions are for the politicians, their sycophants, and their lobbyist, to toot their collective horns and tell America how great that they, the politicians, their sycophants, and their lobbyist, truly are.

They are not having these conventions for you to protest at or otherwise steal the limelight.

Remember, the rights of the political class come before the rights of the voting class.

 

[RightIsWrong]

^^^^^^

As Metallica put it....

You know it's sad but true.

 

[Starbuck1975]

if you are american and this does not upset you then nothing will. this is another fine example of the the right wing nut jobs stripping our rights away. this is extremely upsetting.

The article is largely a one sided account of the circumstances surrounding Kinberg's arrest...that, and law enforcement officials always step up security measures when a significant political event comes to town, especially a political party convention.

Also, such acts of censorship around political conventions are not exclusive to the RNC...I invite you to do some research on the police activities and free speech zones during the DNC in Boston just a few years back.

I would support your OP if it pointed out that both the RNC and the DNC exploited the terrorist threat angle to censor free speech at each of their respective conventions in 2004.

 

[blackangst1]

ugh I agree its upsetting. Im suprised they didnt label this as part of the Patriot Akt haha

I said for awhile the lines between Dems and Repubs as so blurry now. Im not poo-pooing the RNC slant, coz its NOT a slant, its reality.

You are right though. Frightning.

 

[Harvey]

From the article:

But the New York Police Department had a different idea.

Though they'd never seen him use the bike, the police arrested Kinberg on criminal mischief charges prior to the convention start, during an interview on Broadway Avenue with MSNBC's Ron Reagan. The arrest took place on a spot where, two days earlier, Kinberg had printed out the water-soluble message, "America is a free speech zone" during an interview with MSNBC's Countdown With Keith Olbermann.

During his 24 hours in lockup, his bike was inspected and praised by bomb-squad technicians, while detectives traded Polaroids of his creation and members of the Joint Terrorism Task Force questioned whether he knew violent protesters. Kinberg's charges were later dropped, on the condition he not get arrested again for six months.

It wasn't until December of last year that Kinberg learned his arrest was less spontaneous than it appeared.

He received a phone call from Gideon Oliver, an attorney enmeshed in a series of suits against the NYPD challenging the department's mass arrests, fingerprinting policies and detention conditions. Oliver revealed that Kinberg had been one of many targets of the NYPD's "RNC Intelligence Squad," which had been traveling around the country infiltrating progressive groups and building secret files on potential rabble-rousers ahead of the convention.

In late March, a New York Times reporter read Kinberg portions of his file.

"My project was all very public because I didn't want there to be any mystery as to what this was," Kinberg told Wired News. "The NYPD acted as the law enforcement arm of the Republican Party. That's not how this country is supposed to work."

This is scary stuff. For at least a little while longer, this is still the scant, lingering vestigile remains of the United States of America... at least, until Der Wannabe Führer Bush und Kommandant Gonzales finish shredding what remains of our Constitution. It reminds me of some of the lyrics from a song I once wrote:

And they silence the voices arising,
From those who would show us the light,
With their guys with their spies in the skies watching you and your neighbor.

And Who's Watching Over Who's Watching Over You?
Tell me who's telling you what to do what to do?

RIP U.S. Constitution -- 1787 - 2002.

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: Harvey

This is scary stuff. For at least a little while longer, this is still the scant, lingering vestigile remains of the United States of America... at least, until Der Wannabe Führer Bush und Kommandant Gonzales finish shredding what remains of our Constitution. It reminds me of some of the lyrics from a song I once wrote:

And they silence the voices arising,
From those who would show us the light,
With their guys with their spies in the skies watching you and your neighbor.

And Who's Watching Over Who's Watching Over You?
Tell me who's telling you what to do what to do?

RIP U.S. Constitution

You are delusional Harvey if you think that this slope will somehow magically tilt back the other direction now that the Dems are in power.

I like Bush-bashing as much as the next guy, but the Dems are not knights in shining armor and are not interested in returning the country back over to the people while there is still personal millions to be made for themselves from the same people that were lining the pockets of the Repubs.

 

[steppinthrax]

Even though what he was doing was in a way his freadom of speech he had to be stupid to think no one will bother him for doing it. Police in general are stupid (H.S. Diploma required). To sit there and try to explain biodegratable and Dot-matrix to them would be like going to the moon. There are some other issues with this. If I were walking down the street and happen to feet sprayed with that ****** I would get angry. I'm sure it might wash off easily on the sidewalk but not on fabric or cloth. Also when aresol cans disperse fluid there is always some sort of gas released. These type of things need to be taken in effect . I'm sure if you look up the definition of defacing and vandalism he fits right in there even though it can be washed off. The point is that someone has to wash it off or it kind of stays there. If the city does it he should of pre-arranged something with the city in payment of sidewalk washing.

To say it can be washed off is like If I break a bus stop window and when the police pick me up I say that Oh it can be fixed. I can go down the Home Depot and pick up a piece of Lexan.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: alien42
unreal

if you are american and this does not upset you then nothing will. this is another fine example of the the right wing nut jobs stripping our rights away. this is extremely upsetting.

and no comment on all the wonderful things the Boston police did to curtail peaceful methods of protest. You can google gobs of this stuff if you just try.


Look, get it straight.

the conventions are for the politicians, their sycophants, and their lobbyist, to toot their collective horns and tell America how great that they, the politicians, their sycophants, and their lobbyist, truly are.

They are not having these conventions for you to protest at or otherwise steal the limelight.

Remember, the rights of the political class come before the rights of the voting class.

Constitutional free speech rights be damned, right buddy?

 

[Starbuck1975]

Even though what he was doing was in a way his freadom of speech he had to be stupid to think no one will bother him for doing it. Police in general are stupid (H.S. Diploma required).

Education is not a measure of intelligence...I don't agree that police, in general, are stupid...but your statement surely is.

 

[ayabe]

This is the best part:

While Brown said the intelligence documents were innocent, he added that the police do not want the court to release them because the information could reveal how the police department makes decisions.

i.e. we're not Nazi Gestapo, more like Disney Gestapo, purely harmless, TRUST ME.

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Originally posted by: HarveyThis is scary stuff. For at least a little while longer, this is still the scant, lingering vestigile remains of the United States of America... at least, until Der Wannabe Führer Clinton und Kommandant Reno finish shredding what remains of our Constitution. It reminds me of some of the lyrics from a song I once wrote:

And they silence the voices arising,
From those who would show us the light,
With their guys with their spies in the skies watching you and your neighbor.

RIP U.S. Constitution -- 1787 - 1992.

I fixed your post.

Perhaps you can ask why under Reno that Americans were killed in this country openly and aliens forcibly deported.

Your looking too recently for the loss of our freedom, it started way back when people gave up their responsibilities to the Federal Government after the depression

 

[DealMonkey]

Pre-emptive arrests, far-reaching spying and surveillance on innocent Americans, geeze did the NYPD also torture its prisoners? I mean, they're like a junior version of the White House.

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Shivetya


Remember, the rights of the political class come before the rights of the voting class.

Constitutional free speech rights be damned, right buddy?

Thats right, the Constitution is an annoyance to the political class. Thats why they keep trying to redefine it (living document my ass) and ignore it

 

[steppinthrax]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

Even though what he was doing was in a way his freadom of speech he had to be stupid to think no one will bother him for doing it. Police in general are stupid (H.S. Diploma required).

Education is not a measure of intelligence...I don't agree that police, in general, are stupid...but your statement surely is.

Education correlates highly with intelligence. This can be proven with IQ vs. intelligence charts and even basic statistics. I?ve never been in trouble with the law but the vast majority of police that I?ve met makes me think real hard about how decisions are being made.

 

[Fern]

Why do you blame the RNC instead of the NYPD?

Since the chalk is washable I don't think it's a big deal. However, I can tell you that where I live many merchants downtown get extremely pissed at people putting chalk on the sidewalk (these are liberal hybrid driving GWB haters too). I guess they think it can get tracked into their stores? There's an kids sidewalk art event here annual, that's where the chalk comes from that pisses off the merchants so much.

Otherwise, as far as I'm concerned if you gotta make your "statement", write it on your own property, not others' private property or the public property.

Fern

 

[JEDIYoda]

He blames the RNC because its more politically correct than to blame it all on GWB!!!

Fern has it right--Otherwise, as far as I'm concerned if you gotta make your "statement", write it on your own property, not others' private property or the public property.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
He blames the RNC because its more politically correct than to blame it all on GWB!!!

Fern has it right--Otherwise, as far as I'm concerned if you gotta make your "statement", write it on your own property, not others' private property or the public property.

Yes but in NYC people do this stuff all the time, what about all of these TRUTH gimmicks they keep pulling, they are using public property to convey their message. It's the same thing and a double standard. There is nothing illegal about what this guy was trying to do and I don't see how they could legally detain him for anything let alone his laptop, cell phone, and they 'lost' his bike, which is probably now sitting in the garage of one of the police commissioners for his kids to play with.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: steppinthrax
Even though what he was doing was in a way his freadom of speech he had to be stupid to think no one will bother him for doing it. Police in general are stupid (H.S. Diploma required). To sit there and try to explain biodegratable and Dot-matrix to them would be like going to the moon. There are some other issues with this. If I were walking down the street and happen to feet sprayed with that ****** I would get angry. I'm sure it might wash off easily on the sidewalk but not on fabric or cloth. Also when aresol cans disperse fluid there is always some sort of gas released. These type of things need to be taken in effect . I'm sure if you look up the definition of defacing and vandalism he fits right in there even though it can be washed off. The point is that someone has to wash it off or it kind of stays there. If the city does it he should of pre-arranged something with the city in payment of sidewalk washing.

To say it can be washed off is like If I break a bus stop window and when the police pick me up I say that Oh it can be fixed. I can go down the Home Depot and pick up a piece of Lexan.

chalk usually disperses with rain or even wind and high-traffic. Its more like leaving a finger print on the bus window than breaking it.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: steppinthrax
Even though what he was doing was in a way his freadom of speech he had to be stupid to think no one will bother him for doing it. Police in general are stupid (H.S. Diploma required). To sit there and try to explain biodegratable and Dot-matrix to them would be like going to the moon. There are some other issues with this. If I were walking down the street and happen to feet sprayed with that ****** I would get angry. I'm sure it might wash off easily on the sidewalk but not on fabric or cloth. Also when aresol cans disperse fluid there is always some sort of gas released. These type of things need to be taken in effect . I'm sure if you look up the definition of defacing and vandalism he fits right in there even though it can be washed off. The point is that someone has to wash it off or it kind of stays there. If the city does it he should of pre-arranged something with the city in payment of sidewalk washing.

To say it can be washed off is like If I break a bus stop window and when the police pick me up I say that Oh it can be fixed. I can go down the Home Depot and pick up a piece of Lexan.

chalk usually disperses with rain or even wind and high-traffic. Its more like leaving a finger print on the bus window than breaking it.

It's less a hassle then when someone throws gum on the ground that's for sure. I'm fairly certain you can't be detained for that.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: steppinthrax

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

Even though what he was doing was in a way his freadom of speech he had to be stupid to think no one will bother him for doing it. Police in general are stupid (H.S. Diploma required).

Education is not a measure of intelligence...I don't agree that police, in general, are stupid...but your statement surely is.

Education correlates highly with intelligence. This can be proven with IQ vs. intelligence charts and even basic statistics. I?ve never been in trouble with the law but the vast majority of police that I?ve met makes me think real hard about how decisions are being made.

You're a real bright one yourself aren't you?

NYPD


Are there any education requirements to be appointed as a NYC Police Officer?

Yes, on or before the date of hire, a candidate must have successfully completed:

60 college credits with a 2.0 G.P.A. from an accredited college or university


OR


2 years of full-time active military service in the United States Armed Forces with an honorable discharge and have a high school diploma or it's equivalent

I'm not even halfway through college and I was able to find that info, what college did you go to?

While it is true that many police departments only require a HS diploma, the majority of the better departments require at least 60 credits or 2 years in the military.


Edit - BTW, after completing most Police academies, you will usually have around 20-30 transferrable credits.....you wouldn't look as ignorant if you actually did a little research before calling Police in general stupid and uneducated.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: steppinthrax

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

Even though what he was doing was in a way his freadom of speech he had to be stupid to think no one will bother him for doing it. Police in general are stupid (H.S. Diploma required).

Education is not a measure of intelligence...I don't agree that police, in general, are stupid...but your statement surely is.

Education correlates highly with intelligence. This can be proven with IQ vs. intelligence charts and even basic statistics. I?ve never been in trouble with the law but the vast majority of police that I?ve met makes me think real hard about how decisions are being made.

You're a real bright one yourself aren't you?

NYPD


Are there any education requirements to be appointed as a NYC Police Officer?

Yes, on or before the date of hire, a candidate must have successfully completed:

60 college credits with a 2.0 G.P.A. from an accredited college or university


OR


2 years of full-time active military service in the United States Armed Forces with an honorable discharge and have a high school diploma or it's equivalent

I'm not even halfway through college and I was able to find that info, what college did you go to?

While it is true that many police departments only require a HS diploma, the majority of the better departments require at least 60 credits or 2 years in the military.

Agreed, I know that the police around here have to have an AS in criminology at least and most have BS's, though I live in a college town.

Police officers aren't idiots.

 

[steppinthrax]

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: steppinthrax
Even though what he was doing was in a way his freadom of speech he had to be stupid to think no one will bother him for doing it. Police in general are stupid (H.S. Diploma required). To sit there and try to explain biodegratable and Dot-matrix to them would be like going to the moon. There are some other issues with this. If I were walking down the street and happen to feet sprayed with that ****** I would get angry. I'm sure it might wash off easily on the sidewalk but not on fabric or cloth. Also when aresol cans disperse fluid there is always some sort of gas released. These type of things need to be taken in effect . I'm sure if you look up the definition of defacing and vandalism he fits right in there even though it can be washed off. The point is that someone has to wash it off or it kind of stays there. If the city does it he should of pre-arranged something with the city in payment of sidewalk washing.

To say it can be washed off is like If I break a bus stop window and when the police pick me up I say that Oh it can be fixed. I can go down the Home Depot and pick up a piece of Lexan.

chalk usually disperses with rain or even wind and high-traffic. Its more like leaving a finger print on the bus window than breaking it.

It's less a hassle then when someone throws gum on the ground that's for sure. I'm fairly certain you can't be detained for that.

Throwing gum or anything on the ground I'm sure goes along with public littering.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: steppinthrax

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

Even though what he was doing was in a way his freadom of speech he had to be stupid to think no one will bother him for doing it. Police in general are stupid (H.S. Diploma required).

Education is not a measure of intelligence...I don't agree that police, in general, are stupid...but your statement surely is.

Education correlates highly with intelligence. This can be proven with IQ vs. intelligence charts and even basic statistics. I?ve never been in trouble with the law but the vast majority of police that I?ve met makes me think real hard about how decisions are being made.

You're a real bright one yourself aren't you?

NYPD


Are there any education requirements to be appointed as a NYC Police Officer?

Yes, on or before the date of hire, a candidate must have successfully completed:

60 college credits with a 2.0 G.P.A. from an accredited college or university


OR


2 years of full-time active military service in the United States Armed Forces with an honorable discharge and have a high school diploma or it's equivalent

I'm not even halfway through college and I was able to find that info, what college did you go to?

While it is true that many police departments only require a HS diploma, the majority of the better departments require at least 60 credits or 2 years in the military.

Agreed, I know that the police around here have to have an AS in criminology at least and most have BS's, though I live in a college town.

Police officers aren't idiots.

Yea, probably 15-20 years ago you could get hired with just a HS diploma, but the standards have been raised dramatically. Not to mention the extensive background investigation (its a b1tch to try and remember 3 people that knew you when you were 4 years old and lived halfway across the country) and polygraph. Of course some fall through the cracks, but thats true of any profession, its just amplified more sometimes because of the highly stressfull and highly public situations that police officers are thrown into every day. Everyone is dying to try and get a 10 second out of context video of a cop doing something that could be considered bad.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: steppinthrax

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: steppinthrax
Even though what he was doing was in a way his freadom of speech he had to be stupid to think no one will bother him for doing it. Police in general are stupid (H.S. Diploma required). To sit there and try to explain biodegratable and Dot-matrix to them would be like going to the moon. There are some other issues with this. If I were walking down the street and happen to feet sprayed with that ****** I would get angry. I'm sure it might wash off easily on the sidewalk but not on fabric or cloth. Also when aresol cans disperse fluid there is always some sort of gas released. These type of things need to be taken in effect . I'm sure if you look up the definition of defacing and vandalism he fits right in there even though it can be washed off. The point is that someone has to wash it off or it kind of stays there. If the city does it he should of pre-arranged something with the city in payment of sidewalk washing.

To say it can be washed off is like If I break a bus stop window and when the police pick me up I say that Oh it can be fixed. I can go down the Home Depot and pick up a piece of Lexan.

chalk usually disperses with rain or even wind and high-traffic. Its more like leaving a finger print on the bus window than breaking it.

It's less a hassle then when someone throws gum on the ground that's for sure. I'm fairly certain you can't be detained for that.

Throwing gum or anything on the ground I'm sure goes along with public littering.

Can't be arrested for it, maybe a fine but enforcement is pretty lax.