***UPDATED*** Questions for Christians

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by: busmaster11
Wow... you leave for 30 min and this happens...

Anand need only to read this thread if he ever thought about getting rid of his mods...

LethalWolfe - your objectivity seems a little over the top. If you believe in something, it may or may not be reality, but it is by definition true and factual to you. If I believe in the Christian God, I cannot and do not believe, therefore will not respect, any other religion.

Thanks to everyone who participated, except perhaps for Red and a few others. Red, who rants incessantly about giving him respect while showing the least...

I have a fair idea what I should so, but with a couple notes - at the advice of some, I'm not going to (nor was I intending) force anything down my uncle's throat. I will encourage him, pray for him, and give him my testimony. I will also let him know why I believe and love my God, and ask him to accept Jesus into his heart. If not, I'll pray about it and leave it at that.

I believe it is ultimately God's decision to save him or heal him or not, but it is my uncle's decision to accept God or not. God cannot and will not make decisions for you.

I'll be monitoring this thread for flamage (Dawn and Ausm are in fact amusing; but much more so if it was another thread.) and for actual useful advice.

I guess we just have different ideas on what constitutes a fact. For me, a fact is something that can be proven or disproven. And I'm also the kid of person that draws a huge distinction between the meanings of "would" and "could" so maybe I'must wierd?

I hope the best for you and your family. I recently lost my grandfather so I can imagine what your family is giong thru.


Lethal
EDIT: spelling

 

[Corn]

Considering what he is going through, please respect his situation and feelings and post these remarks outside of this post in another post.

Busmaster is going through nothing compared to what his uncle is going through. My opinion was simply a mirror of yours, for him to please respect his Uncle's situation and feelings. Its fine for him to want to give his testimony to his uncle, but my question is why wait until he's near death to do so?

The answer to that question is obvious.....he didn't, I'm sure his uncle has had to endure many "testimonials" from Busmaster and his family already. But now with death looming, a new approach presents itself: "you've got nothing to lose and everything to gain!" Just makes me want to gag.

Here's my advice to Busmaster: If your Uncle is receptive to a discussion regarding your faith, go ahead and relate it to him, if he's not interested, drop it.

 

[halik]

first of all cuda / ausm shut the #$%#$ up...noone cares. Go fight or something

Originally posted by: busmaster11

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Anyway back on the subject. Busmaster, I really think it would be best if you took into account that he has already chosen his religion that that you should respect his choice as I am sure you would have wanted him to respect your choice of beliefs if you were on your death bed. Obvioulsy he's a great amount of pain and suffering due to the nature of his illness and it would seem to me to be rather cruel to bother him now just because you happen to believe differently than he does.

Red, you are a good person in your own way. If I was not a Christian I would tend to agree with you. But the fact of the matter is, I believe (whether its true or not is up to everyone's own interpretation) I am witness to a higher authority that you don't. If you can think about that statement for a second, you will come to one of two conclusions:

1. I'm a wacko, in which case it is pointless for you to persuade me and thus you might as well leave...

2. I'm right, and if there exists the God of the Bible, I need to do what I am discussing here.

right?

I would say the only conclusion you can draw is that he would disagree with what you believe. Anything more than that would make him hypocrite. He, just like you, doesnt know which religion/belief is right or wrong. One thing i would point out though, Red (as well as me) has kept his objectivity, because neither one of us (you included) knows whether there is god or not. You chose to believe it, we didnt. Thats all theres to it

 

[XZeroII]

Forget about the flaming. This person wanted an honest answer for those who actually believed, not people who don't. If you don't have anything to say related to the actual topic, don't say anything at all.

Buddy, I say to just be with your uncle. I wouldn't care if my family came and started chanting something, as long as they were there with me.

 

[amcdonald]

I don't think you are a whacko and I don't think you are right. How about looking at it from your dying Uncles perspective though?

Of course he's looked at it from his uncle's perspective... he's already mentioned that he doesn't intend to offend him and alienate himself.
And you still manage to be patronizing. He never said you can't post if you aren't a christian (IIRC), he only said (more or less) don't be a condescending jerk.

 

[Cuda1447]

Originally posted by: Corn

Considering what he is going through, please respect his situation and feelings and post these remarks outside of this post in another post.

Busmaster is going through nothing compared to what his uncle is going through. My opinion was simply a mirror of yours, for him to please respect his Uncle's situation and feelings. Its fine for him to want to give his testimony to his uncle, but my question is why wait until he's near death to do so?

The answer to that question is obvious.....he didn't, I'm sure his uncle has had to endure many "testimonials" from Busmaster and his family already. But now with death looming, a new approach presents itself: "you've got nothing to lose and everything to gain!" Just makes me want to gag.

Here's my advice to Busmaster: If your Uncle is receptive to a discussion regarding your faith, go ahead and relate it to him, if he's not interested, drop it.

To answer you question, why wait until he's near death?



Its his last opportunity to be saved, thats why. There are no other chances. Judging from Busmasters original post it doesn't sound like his uncle has been given much exposure to God. His family is all Buddhist it seems.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: amcdonald

I don't think you are a whacko and I don't think you are right. How about looking at it from your dying Uncles perspective though?

Of course he's looked at it from his uncle's perspective... he's already mentioned that he doesn't intend to offend him and alienate himself.
And you still manage to be patronizing. He never said you can't post if you aren't a christian (IIRC), he only said (more or less) don't be a condescending jerk.

I wasn't addressing you so why the flame?

 

[Cuda1447]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: amcdonald

I don't think you are a whacko and I don't think you are right. How about looking at it from your dying Uncles perspective though?

Of course he's looked at it from his uncle's perspective... he's already mentioned that he doesn't intend to offend him and alienate himself.
And you still manage to be patronizing. He never said you can't post if you aren't a christian (IIRC), he only said (more or less) don't be a condescending jerk.

I wasn't addressing you so why the flame?

He didn't flame. Unless you are admitting that you are being a condescending jerk, and in that case it would appear to be a flame aimed at you?


I don't think he was flaming though

 

[Corn]

To answer you question, why wait until he's near death?



Its his last opportunity to be saved, thats why. There are no other chances. Judging from Busmasters original post it doesn't sound like his uncle has been given much exposure to God. His family is all Buddhist it seems.

Well lookie here, Captain Obvious to the rescue.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Cuda1447

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: amcdonald

I don't think you are a whacko and I don't think you are right. How about looking at it from your dying Uncles perspective though?

Of course he's looked at it from his uncle's perspective... he's already mentioned that he doesn't intend to offend him and alienate himself.
And you still manage to be patronizing. He never said you can't post if you aren't a christian (IIRC), he only said (more or less) don't be a condescending jerk.

I wasn't addressing you so why the flame?

He didn't flame. Unless you are admitting that you are being a condescending jerk, and in that case it would appear to be a flame aimed at you?


I don't think he was flaming though

Again I was just responding to Busmaster, not you. What's the purpose of trying to provoke me? Let's try to stay on the subject.

 

[Cuda1447]

Originally posted by: Corn

To answer you question, why wait until he's near death?



Its his last opportunity to be saved, thats why. There are no other chances. Judging from Busmasters original post it doesn't sound like his uncle has been given much exposure to God. His family is all Buddhist it seems.

Well lookie here, Captain Obvious to the rescue.

Obviously it wasn't that obvious if he had to ask.

 

[Cuda1447]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Cuda1447

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: amcdonald

I don't think you are a whacko and I don't think you are right. How about looking at it from your dying Uncles perspective though?

Of course he's looked at it from his uncle's perspective... he's already mentioned that he doesn't intend to offend him and alienate himself.
And you still manage to be patronizing. He never said you can't post if you aren't a christian (IIRC), he only said (more or less) don't be a condescending jerk.

I wasn't addressing you so why the flame?

He didn't flame. Unless you are admitting that you are being a condescending jerk, and in that case it would appear to be a flame aimed at you?


I don't think he was flaming though

Again I was just responding to Busmaster, not you. What's the purpose of trying to provoke me? Let's try to stay on the subject.

Actually, you were responding to amcdonald who responded to you when you responded to busmaster. Now I am responding to you to defend my friend amcdonald. Also to clear things up for you, since you seem to be somewhat confused. No provocation attempt. Oh, and if we want to stay on topic then why are you claiming people are flaming you? Why not STAY ON TOPIC?

 

[Greyd]

Hey guys,

I think this flame war kinda needs to stop. Both sides. Take it to PM's or something else. There's no usefulness in this.

 

[amcdonald]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: amcdonald

I don't think you are a whacko and I don't think you are right. How about looking at it from your dying Uncles perspective though?

Of course he's looked at it from his uncle's perspective... he's already mentioned that he doesn't intend to offend him and alienate himself.
And you still manage to be patronizing. He never said you can't post if you aren't a christian (IIRC), he only said (more or less) don't be a condescending jerk.

I wasn't addressing you so why the flame?

I'm sticking up for people who may not reason as well as you.
This guy is asking for help and you give him a bunch of crap. Now you are trying to make him feel bad because he asked you to stop. Thats ridiculous. If someone was at your public park (for example) trying to convert you (to borrow an overused phrase), and you asked him to leave POLITELY, what you are doing is the equivalent of the park evangelist getting pissy and saying "Oh I'm sorry, I'll just not exist to make you happy."
You have to look at what you are saying objectively.
I realize its fun to argue, but there has to be a line when it becomes mean. You may believe you have an agenda of 'enlightenment' for the poor christians who haven't yet realized how dumb they are, but when have you crossed the line YOU drew? when are you partaking in the very acts which make christians annoying to you?
All I'm asking is that you try to look at things with an open mind and quit harrassing where its not needed.
I don't recall seeing busmaster in the general hardware forum telling you jesus loves you.
Maybe I'm mistaken though

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: amcdonald

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: amcdonald

I don't think you are a whacko and I don't think you are right. How about looking at it from your dying Uncles perspective though?

Of course he's looked at it from his uncle's perspective... he's already mentioned that he doesn't intend to offend him and alienate himself.
And you still manage to be patronizing. He never said you can't post if you aren't a christian (IIRC), he only said (more or less) don't be a condescending jerk.

I wasn't addressing you so why the flame?

I'm sticking up for people who may not reason as well as you.
This guy is asking for help and you give him a bunch of crap. Now you are trying to make him feel bad because he asked you to stop. Thats ridiculous. If someone was at your public park (for example) trying to convert you (to borrow an overused phrase), and you asked him to leave POLITELY, what you are doing is the equivalent of the park evangelist getting pissy and saying "Oh I'm sorry, I'll just not exist to make you happy."
You have to look at what you are saying objectively.
I realize its fun to argue, but there has to be a line when it becomes mean. You may believe you have an agenda of 'enlightenment' for the poor christians who haven't yet realized how dumb they are, but when have you crossed the line YOU drew? when are you partaking in the very acts which make christians annoying to you?
All I'm asking is that you try to look at things with an open mind and quit harrassing where its not needed.
I don't recall seeing busmaster in the general hardware forum telling you jesus loves you.
Maybe I'm mistaken though

Start another thread if you want to debate this.

 

[Greyd]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: amcdonald

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: amcdonald

I don't think you are a whacko and I don't think you are right. How about looking at it from your dying Uncles perspective though?

Of course he's looked at it from his uncle's perspective... he's already mentioned that he doesn't intend to offend him and alienate himself.
And you still manage to be patronizing. He never said you can't post if you aren't a christian (IIRC), he only said (more or less) don't be a condescending jerk.

I wasn't addressing you so why the flame?

I'm sticking up for people who may not reason as well as you.
This guy is asking for help and you give him a bunch of crap. Now you are trying to make him feel bad because he asked you to stop. Thats ridiculous. If someone was at your public park (for example) trying to convert you (to borrow an overused phrase), and you asked him to leave POLITELY, what you are doing is the equivalent of the park evangelist getting pissy and saying "Oh I'm sorry, I'll just not exist to make you happy."
You have to look at what you are saying objectively.
I realize its fun to argue, but there has to be a line when it becomes mean. You may believe you have an agenda of 'enlightenment' for the poor christians who haven't yet realized how dumb they are, but when have you crossed the line YOU drew? when are you partaking in the very acts which make christians annoying to you?
All I'm asking is that you try to look at things with an open mind and quit harrassing where its not needed.
I don't recall seeing busmaster in the general hardware forum telling you jesus loves you.
Maybe I'm mistaken though

Start another thread if you want to debate this.

EXACTLY. Thank you

 

[Cuda1447]

Can't start another thread It gets locked.


It seems to me that you are the only ojne who is interested in continuing the flames. Keep it up and you can find yourself another forum to post at.

 

[Corn]

Obviously it wasn't that obvious if he had to ask.

He? Don't you mean "you", as in me? You didn't even answer the question anyway, the question was "why wait" not "why now?"

 

[Ausm]

Stop with the flaming in this thread please.

 

[Cuda1447]

Originally posted by: Corn

Obviously it wasn't that obvious if he had to ask.

He? Don't you me "you", as in me? You didn't even answer the question anyway, the question was "why wait?" not "why now?"

Maybe busmaster just recently become a devout Christian. Maybe he never thought about it before. Maybe alot of things. Regardless now is as good a time as any. Many of you will probably disagree with me on that point though.

 

[Kev]

Originally posted by: Corn

Obviously it wasn't that obvious if he had to ask.

He? Don't you me "you", as in me? You didn't even answer the question anyway, the question was "why wait" not "why now?"

I'll get the expert cryptographers working on this immediately....

 

[Cuda1447]

Last warning Cuda1447. I suggest you sit the rest of this thread out

 

[amcdonald]

I don't 'want' to debate this... I feel obligated because you are using entirely flawed logic to skew this thread in a different direction.
You are doing exactly what I did in high school to people who weren't as smart as me. I used to pick apart even my friend's different faiths/logics ad nauseam. Its a childish thing to do and to see it now is disturbing. I don't believe half of the things people tell me, but when my friend gets a tattoo of some indian elephant god, I don't tell them they are a moron.
If you have read the original intent of this thread and respected busmaster's wishes you should have approached it with the slightest respect for his situation, or at least left it alone.

 

[Geekbabe]

Originally posted by: busmaster11

Originally posted by: KC5AV
You should do whatever you can to help your uncle accept Christ. Don't tell him that if he accepts Christ that his cancer will be healed.

I know, but that was going to be the one reason that I have to see him. I have no idea how my relatives will take it but unfortunately I do have to go through them to get to my uncle - and that includes his wide, also a practicing Buddhist. The point is, its all frivolity to them, unless I can make a convincing case of why I need to waste his last days with this stuff.

It might, but it might not. Let your uncle know that you love him, and that you wish he would accept the truth about Jesus. Do what you can to witness to him, but don't forget about the rest of your family. You mentioned that most of them are non-Christians. While it might be very hard for you, a death in the family is often one of the best opportunities to evanglize other members who are lost. The death of a family or close friend brings out feelings of uncertainty in most of us. Let your family know that death doesn't have to hold uncertainty for them. Let them know that you have the certainty that when you die, you will be in Heaven, and that you will live forever. Let them know that you can show them how to have that same certainty. It is very important thing to remember to be compassionate. Do what you can for your uncle while there is still time. It may already be too late for him, but there is still time for the rest of your family. The most important thing you can do at this point is pray that God will help you and that He will make them receptive to His message. Keep us posted on the situation.

Thanks for the encouragement... I will read over all these posts tonight.

It would seem to me that a better demonstration of your God's love would have been for you to have an ongoing relationship with your Uncle while he was strong and healthy.That said,I have several Buddist friends,very cool,laid back people for the most part,the type of people who would simply mediate till you went away rather than have a scene occur on their death bed.

Why not call your Uncle and ask him if he'd be open to seeing you and hearing what you have to say? offer it as an option but don't show up unannounced, if you do how would it be possible to hear your message as anything but an intrusion?

Your family will be in my thoughts

 

[Pastore]

You are all like a big woman. You can switch around the argument as to where you can always make the man the one to blame. It'd be like a dude walking in on his gf screwing some other guy, and her flipping out and being like well if you were here and not at work making money to support our family I wouldn't have been screwing him. LOL