Upgrade to X1950XT?

[sputkin]

Here are my system specs:

Pentium 4, socket 478 2.8 GHz
1.5 GB RAM (DDR333 i think)
Abit IC7 Max3 mobo
old card Radeon 9800XT....dead
Good brand psu...around 500-600w (so this shouldn't be a problem)

I'm thinking about a Radeon X1950XT. But... I'm also thinking this may be overkill. I'm afraid that my cpu will bottleneck this seemingly monster video card too much to make it worth while. Some bottlenecking isn't bad, but you know what i mean.

I don't have the time to change the MoBo and then deal with everything that follows but I could easliy add another 512 of ram and/or upgrade my cpu to 3.2 (3.4 if i'm lucky). Would this sort of upgrade help much when dealing with vid cards of this caliber? And if not, what vid card do you guys recommend that would really take advantage of 1st) my current system or 2nd) the proposed upgraded version Is there really that much difference from 2.8 to 3.2?

Anyway, this board has the best people to deal with this sort of thing and I'd really appreciate any comments/suggestions! Thx guys.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: sputkin
Here are my system specs:

Pentium 4, socket 478 2.8 GHz
1.5 GB RAM (DDR333 i think)
Abit IC7 Max3 mobo
old card Radeon 9800XT....dead
Good brand psu...around 500-600w (so this shouldn't be a problem)

I'm thinking about a Radeon X1950XT. But... I'm also thinking this may be overkill. I'm afraid that my cpu will bottleneck this seemingly monster video card too much to make it worth while. Some bottlenecking isn't bad, but you know what i mean.

I don't have the time to change the MoBo and then deal with everything that follows but I could easliy add another 512 of ram and/or upgrade my cpu to 3.2 (3.4 if i'm lucky). Would this sort of upgrade help much when dealing with vid cards of this caliber? And if not, what vid card do you guys recommend that would really take advantage of 1st) my current system or 2nd) the proposed upgraded version Is there really that much difference from 2.8 to 3.2?

Anyway, this board has the best people to deal with this sort of thing and I'd really appreciate any comments/suggestions! Thx guys.

Don't worry about the bottleneck, in single card configuration you're fine.

As this is AGP, I think ATi X1950XT is your best bet. Better speed and AF than NVIDIA 7 series FTW.

 

[Extelleron]

In my opinion, upgrading to an X1950XT AGP would not be ideal for you; your P4 2.8GHz will bottleneck it in modern games.At this time, it's best to simply upgrade to a modern, PCI-E system.

If you're worried about cost, then it's not going to be a problem. You can put together a modern PCI-E system that is leaps and bounds above your current system for very cheap, and also PCI-E GPUs will be cheaper, saving you money. You can also probably sell that DDR RAM for a decent price, because DDR costs more now days than DDR2.

[CPU] Pentium E2160 - 1.8GHz - $74.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819116036
[Mobo] ABIT IP35-E LGA 775 - $59.99 AR
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813127031
[Mem] Corsair XMS2 2GB (1GBx2) DDR2-800 4-4-4-12 - $34.00 AR
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820145034
TOTAL: $169.98

You could substitute the E1200 CPU to save about $16 if you wanted.

You could sell what you have now and probably get $30~ for CPU + mobo, $20-30 for memory.... $50-60 bring your total cost down to just around $100 for a vastly improved computer. If you try to upgrade you current setup, you will pay high prices for DDR RAM and also a hefty price for a high end S478 CPU - fastest is 3.4GHz EE which is high priced and impossible to find.

As for the video card, you can buy an HD 3850 PCI-E for around $150 which will be way faster than the X1950XT you're looking at and maybe even cheaper. You also have many more choices w/ PCI-E; you can spend $50 more and get much better performance from an 8800GT or wait and see how the 9600GT is in the same price range.

Bottom line is, you're not going to get anywhere upgrading your current setup - it's like putting thousands of dollars into a 20 year old used car. It just isn't worth it - there's a time when buying a new one ends up being cheaper and a much, much better option. A P4 2.8GHz barely meets the minimum requirements of many games today and it is going to bottleneck any modern GPU. If you buy an X1950XT AGP now, a year later you're going to be in the same situation and need to buy everything over again. If you upgrade to a C2D system + HD 3850, you'll be set for a while and be much happier.

 

[nRollo]

A 2.8 isn't a great CPU for sure, but a X1950XT is pretty far down the list of GPUs as well. I think he'll get benefit upgrading to it.

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: nRollo
A 2.8 isn't a great CPU for sure, but a X1950XT is pretty far down the list of GPUs as well. I think he'll get benefit upgrading to it.

If he had an Athlon X2 or a fast Athlon 64 setup, I'd be right with you. But, a Pentium 4 2.8 is so slow that in certain games the performance is going to be horrible. The absolute minimum CPU requirement for Crysis is a 2.8GHz Pentium 4 (under Vista the requirement is a 3.2GHz P4). What will he do next year when games begin moving on an requiring even more? Assassin's Creed seems to require a dual-core CPU, Alan Wake (if it ever comes out) will require DC and certainly not work on an old P4... then he'll be stuck again and in need of an upgrade.

Even if the OP isn't a hardcore gamer, he will see a huge benefit moving from his current setup to a new dual-core, C2D setup. By upgrading just his GPU, he will see a benefit only in games... but by upgrading his whole system, he should see a benefit in everything he does.

If nothing else was on the table, yes, an X1950XT would be an upgrade. But IMO upgrading such an old system is throwing money away in the long term considering how cheap a fast system is today.

 

[Denithor]

Extelleron +1

Throwing money into a P4 dinosaur just doesn't make sense these days. With the lower end C2D chips in the $70-80 range there is no reason not to just buy one of them and OC. Heck, even not overclocked it will run circles around that 2.8GHz P4 chip you've got now.

With an HD3850 your total price should be less than $350 for a full system upgrade that will totally destroy the performance you would see with spending probably more money on a 3.2/3.4GHz P4 (probably well over $100 if you can find one) and the x1950xt card ($200+ if you can find one, especially in the ultra-rare AGP version).

 

[bob4432]

the op stated he didn't have the time to do a full upgrade. if he doesn't have the time and wants a bit more mileage out of his current setup there are few choices, and he has asked about them. if the op claimed he had all the time in the world then going pci-e is a no brainer, but when you take into consideration how much time a whole system makeover is, i can understand where the op is coming from.

op - first, what game/s and what resolutions? i wouldn't want to give advice knowing it will not work from the beginning.

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: bob4432
the op stated he didn't have the time to do a full upgrade. if he doesn't have the time and wants a bit more mileage out of his current setup there are few choices, and he has asked about them. if the op claimed he had all the time in the world then going pci-e is a no brainer, but when you take into consideration how much time a whole system makeover is, i can understand where the op is coming from.

op - first, what game/s and what resolutions? i wouldn't want to give advice knowing it will not work from the beginning.

A full system build isn't going to take much longer than replacing the CPU, adding additional memory, and putting in a new GPU, all of which the OP stated he was willing to do.

If he doesn't want to upgrade to a new setup, I would recommend buying a cheap AGP card just to hold off until he is ready (maybe a used 6600GT or X800 card).

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: Extelleron

Originally posted by: bob4432
the op stated he didn't have the time to do a full upgrade. if he doesn't have the time and wants a bit more mileage out of his current setup there are few choices, and he has asked about them. if the op claimed he had all the time in the world then going pci-e is a no brainer, but when you take into consideration how much time a whole system makeover is, i can understand where the op is coming from.

op - first, what game/s and what resolutions? i wouldn't want to give advice knowing it will not work from the beginning.

A full system build isn't going to take much longer than replacing the CPU, adding additional memory, and putting in a new GPU, all of which the OP stated he was willing to do.

If he doesn't want to upgrade to a new setup, I would recommend buying a cheap AGP card just to hold off until he is ready (maybe a used 6600GT or X800 card).

when saying a new build, you need to take into account the time for all the tweaks and software installation that goes along w/ it. changing a cpu, ram and gpu will take at most an hour? re-installing the whole os and all of your programs and then tweaking everything the way it was will take much more...not to mention the time needed for a decent stability testing

 

[Gikaseixas]

get the Video card but also consider buying a second hand P4 3.2 and overclock a bit to 3.6 , the extra 800mhz sure will help

 

[BassBomb]

Ext is more than right,

I have a P4 3.0GHZ with a 7900GS and its severly bottlenecked

 

[sputkin]

OK, my needs are not that great. Games like neverwinter nights 2 (maxed out and with shadows) and fear are as demanding as I can go right now. I"m in school and i just don't have time for the full pci-e upgrade. I barely have time for gaming It sucks because I want to build a new system, but, like i said, my needs are not cyrsis caliber and won't be for quite some time (maybe when i get the hell out of school).

btw, I looked at the cpu upgrade for the 478 socket and its not worth the prices i'm seeing. Its flat out rediculous actually. Anyway, thx for your response and I hope to hear from ya.

 

[Extelleron]

If you're not concerned about the latest and greatest games, then you can salvage your current setup for a while longer. However, NWN2 is never going to run well on anything less than a high-end 8800 card.

Is that CPU a Northwood core or a Prescott? Download CPU-Z (http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php) if you're not sure. It's probably a Northwood as most Prescotts use Socket 775.

I'm not sure how that motherboard is or whether it can overclock well. You may be able to OC that CPU to 3.0-3.2GHz fairly easily for a small boost in performance. Stock settings are probably 14*200 or maybe 21*133 if it is an earlier Northwood w/ 533MHz FSB. if you have a 14x multiplier, you could raise the FSB frequency from 200 to 215 for 3.0GHz. You do have to be careful because this raises the frequency of other components as well (Memory and puts more strain on motherboard) but it should be possible. Once you overclock, download and run Orthos for several hours to check for stability (Blend test is best for overall system check).

Anyway, I'd recommend you buy a cheaper video card, probably used, such as a 6600GT or an X800 Pro... whatever you can get a good deal on (of course making sure it is AGP version).

 

[sputkin]

Extelleron:

I was figuring on the x1950xt being a bit much for my system. Its too bad. I rather enjoyed the idea of teh higher end agp card. Still, if you can think of any other way to make it worth while, then I am all ears. I believe this mobo is good for some OC'ing but I've never tried it and I'm not sure I would like too....after all, this system does have to last me for a while longer. Stretching its lifetime is preferable.

To anyone:

Last question. EXtelleron has suggested 6600GT or an X800 Pro and I would like to know if anyone else (or even you EXtelleron ) has any other suggestion. I don't mind my cpu bottle necking my vid card somewhat....I would accept a 10-15% decrease in full potential of my graphics card but no more. Of course, this accompanied by the idea that I don't want to OC my system if i can help it.

In a nutshell, I want to push my graphics capability on this dinosaur as far as it will go..agp style of course. I REALLY appreciate you guys helping me on this. This forum came highly recommended and it was worth it. Thx again.

 

[sputkin]

hehe, actually....is the X1650 XT still too much?

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: sputkin

hehe, actually....is the X1650 XT still too much?

If you can get an X1650XT then that will be fine. Just make sure you're not paying a huge price because the prices on AGP cards can get pretty excessive at times.

The X1650XT is faster than the 7600GT and it isn't too far behind the 8600GT (in fact at times it is faster). It's not going to break any speed records but it'll do fine for what you're looking for.

 

[sputkin]

Extelleron:

LOL...you're not kidding about this pricing....I'll keep looking. If anyone just happens to come across and has time...i'll be checking this thread for the next few days. I'm not going to make any rash decisions just yet (unless an awesome deal appears) so if anyone wishes to share..plz feel free.

 

[sputkin]

Alright, I'm almost done asking questions I promise. I'm deciding between these two items. However, the Radeon X1650 GT is half in price and has double the memory than the Radeon X1650 XT one. These things look almost identical in specs, seems like a no-brainer, but.....makes me think I'm missing the "catch."

HIS Radeon X1650 GT specs: HALF the price with double the memory it seems!!

http://www.tigerdirect.com/app...ER&CMP=OTC-PRICERUNNER


PowerColor Radeon X1650XT specs:

http://www.eaglebit.com/Produc...2D570%2D00359&CartID=1

Like i said, I might be missing something here. This will be the last question and THANK YOU...can't say it enough

 

[Extelleron]

My suggestion is to check the used market on eBay and FS/T forums to see if you can get a good deal on an older generation card. I've looked at newegg and the best things I can find are X1650 Pro's for $60-70 which aren't too bad of a deal, but the X1650 Pro isn't the best card either.

Just find something that will suit you for now and save your money for a new setup.

 

[sputkin]

rgr that Extelleron. I'll take a look into it. Thx so much for your time. Like I said, I'll check back for the next few days on this thread so feel free to post up.

 

[will889]

You could get the AGP 7600 GT 512 superclocked @ tigerdirect for $99.00AR then save for a new PCIe MB/cpu and use eVGA's step-up later for an 8800GT

 

[Extelleron]

The difference between a normal X1650GT and X1650XT is the clockspeed; XT is 575/1350 and GT is supposedly 400/800. It looks like that HIS card is factory overclocked so the stock speed is similar to that of an XT.

Looking @ newegg, they have the HIS X1650GT AGP (looks like the same) for $99.99 AR, says clock speeds are 540/1360.

http://www.newegg.com/product/...205&CMP=AFC-C8Junction

So it should be around the speed of the X1650XT.

Whether or not you can justify spending $100 on that card is another story. I realize you don't want to upgrade to a new system, but IMO spending $100 now for an old generation card for an old system is not a good idea. For PCI-E, you can buy an 8600GTS for as low as $85 or an HD 3850 for $150. It's up to you and it's your money, but I'd think carefully before buying.

 

[will889]

^good points above -- my recommendation is really *only* if the OP knows that a new system (better PCIe system) will be done for sure within a 90 day period of buying the 7600GT, and in that case you're really not buying just a 7600GT but a potential easy upgrade path to an 8800GT (or 8800GS). If not I would probably just go with an X1650 pro and call it a day (if you're going to stick with the rig listed above for 6 months or more).

 

[nRollo]

Two things some of you don't seem to be considering with this:

1. He'll get for more gaming enjoyment out of a X1950XT than a X1650 or 6600GT.

2. High end AGP cards have higher re-sale on EBay when he does move to PCIE.

I'd still go X1950XT, and bump that processor to a 3.2 if you can. I also think doing a system rebuild from the board up takes a LOT more time than dropping in a CPU and graphics card.

(and I've built a whole lot of boxes- have some experience in this area)

 

[krnmastersgt]

Software-wise I'd say building new systems can take a while since after you get everything running you have to install the os/drivers/apps. But if you're re-using a HDD building a new system doesn't really take all too long assuming you have all the right tools on hand at the beginning.