"use driver cleaner"

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Slimy

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
There is always something left in the registry, or straggler files left behind that can affect stability/performance issues on either Nvidia or AMD/ATI cards.

Which is exactly why fully functional uninstallers should be a standard practice among driver developers.

Is it really so difficult to run driver cleaner?

It has nothing to do with difficulty. The fact of the matter is that most people don't know they need to do this. Most people are going to expect that an uninstaller will actually uninstall the program/driver, rather than uninstall part of that program/driver. And really, why would anyone assume that they would have to install a third-party program to compensate for poor design on the part of developers.

Is the world full of impatient people who want nothing but short cuts throughout life?

This isn't about looking for a shortcut. This is about a function of the software actually performing the job that is expected to perform, as opposed to half-assing it. When I uninstall a program, I expect it to be removed, in it's entirety, from my system. No program files, no configuration files, no registry entries, no init-file entries.

An analogy: If most word processors shipped with built-in spell-checkers that typically only caught 75% of spelling mistakes, would you suggest that people who complained were whiners, and that everyone should just download Aspell, and run their documents through that? Anyone who didn't use a third-party spell checker is just lazy, and looking for a shortcut?

Hey, that's all really insightful and everything, but instead of griping about the way things "should" be, lets use what we have??????
Your analogy is pretty bad. Why can't you check your own spelling? This is my gripe. Everyone want's everything done "for" them. Eventually that might happen, but until then, use your gray/grey matter to spellcheque. And, until we get proper uninstallers, we have been provided with a tool that helps us accomplish this.

I know, Oh my goodness, it's an extra step. So what.

And welcome to AT forums. Let's hope you don't live up to your chosen member name.

 

[imported_Slimy]

You're so quick to slam him for what you view as laziness, but you seem perfectly willing to dismiss the lazy developers for writing uninstallers that don't work.

While it's true we're stuck using third-party solutions to compensate for the shortcoming of poorly designed software, expecting the software that you paid for to actually work the way it's supposed to hardly constitutes laziness.

 

[dennilfloss]

I have Driver Genius Professional Edition and I still use Driver Cleaner. Better safe than sorry. My XP Pro install is 6 years old and I don't plan on hosing it soon (even though I image it regularly).

Might try Driver Sweeper. Thanks for the link.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Slimy
You're so quick to slam him for what you view as laziness, but you seem perfectly willing to dismiss the lazy developers for writing uninstallers that don't work.

While it's true we're stuck using third-party solutions to compensate for the shortcoming of poorly designed software, expecting the software that you paid for to actually work the way it's supposed to hardly constitutes laziness.

I don't remember the last time I paid for driver updates, do you?
You're actually talking about this as if it was something that matters. Why? There are far more important things in the world to worry about than whether or not drivers properly uninstall. Especially when we have ways of doing it. This is micro-miniscule, so don't blow it up to be something more than it is.

 

[nitromullet]

I don't remember the last time I paid for driver updates, do you?

The last time you bought a video card you paid for driver updates. Drivers are released with known bugs in them in order to get the product out the door. We accept this trade off because we want to be able to buy the product in a reasonable amount of time. However, we still expect and demand ongoing development and fixes to the drivers, and hardware manufacturers know this and add it to the cost of the item. Ongoing driver support for a product is part of the way this business model works, and you can bet we as consumers aren't getting updates for 'free'.

While it's true we're stuck using third-party solutions to compensate for the shortcoming of poorly designed software, expecting the software that you paid for to actually work the way it's supposed to hardly constitutes laziness.

What is your basis for your claim? There is simply no evidence that supports the claim that after un-installation either current ATI or NVIDIA drivers leave behind some 'remnants' that adversely affect the performance of your PC, and certainly nothing to support the notion that running Driver Cleaner would fix this issue if it existed.

 

[jonmcc33]

Since drivers are universal there's no need to use something like that. I never have.

 

[Canterwood]

I used Driver cleaner in the past, but didtched it when I found it made no difference to my perfomance whatsoever.

Now I just use add/remove and have happily switched between manufacturers without issue.

 

[Griswold]

On several occassions Driver Sweeper solved problems with particular games for me, after upgrading the drivers - you know it when a problem you've had for many months suddenly disappears when you re-install the same driver you've been using for a while. So yes, I always use it. It doesnt surprise me though. If nvidia cant release proper working drivers for my 7800GT under vista, why would the uninstaller work any better?

If you check the logfile after the cleanup, you'd be surprised how much garbage it finds both in the registry and system folder that is left behind by the uninstaller...

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: nitromullet

I don't remember the last time I paid for driver updates, do you?

The last time you bought a video card you paid for driver updates. Drivers are released with known bugs in them in order to get the product out the door. We accept this trade off because we want to be able to buy the product in a reasonable amount of time. However, we still expect and demand ongoing development and fixes to the drivers, and hardware manufacturers know this and add it to the cost of the item. Ongoing driver support for a product is part of the way this business model works, and you can bet we as consumers aren't getting updates for 'free'.

Yes, drivers and all updates are inclusive in the price of the card, I know. But it's kind of transparent and not a continuing pay policy when new drivers are released. When I buy a vid card, I don't think about how much the drivers are going to cost me. I Just think about how much the card costs. Business model or not, I don't feel the burden of paying for driver improvements/updates.

While it's true we're stuck using third-party solutions to compensate for the shortcoming of poorly designed software, expecting the software that you paid for to actually work the way it's supposed to hardly constitutes laziness.

What is your basis for your claim? There is simply no evidence that supports the claim that after un-installation either current ATI or NVIDIA drivers leave behind some 'remnants' that adversely affect the performance of your PC, and certainly nothing to support the notion that running Driver Cleaner would fix this issue if it existed.

The very fact that we have utilities such as driver cleaner is evidence enough. Some users report unexplainable poor performance when installing new drivers, especially when switching from Nvidia to ATI and vice-versa. Usually, running driver cleaner remedies these issues. Sometimes not. Every computer on the planet is different "software wise" in that a difference of a single file "version" could make a difference.
Ex. nvldr.dll ver 1234.567 or nvldr.dll ver 1234.568.

 

[nullpointerus]

Originally posted by: nitromullet

While it's true we're stuck using third-party solutions to compensate for the shortcoming of poorly designed software, expecting the software that you paid for to actually work the way it's supposed to hardly constitutes laziness.

What is your basis for your claim? There is simply no evidence that supports the claim that after un-installation either current ATI or NVIDIA drivers leave behind some 'remnants' that adversely affect the performance of your PC, and certainly nothing to support the notion that running Driver Cleaner would fix this issue if it existed.

What about the recent 2900XT discussions in which people resolved driver setup problems by strange combinations of reverting to/from older drivers and back again?

What about the 8800GTX/S problems some months ago where people would score very low on 3DMark and have poor fps in games until they played around with driver setup?

What about the safe mode driver installation recommendation?

These posts exist; they were written by real people; if you do not read enough to see them, that's your problem. I certainly have no intention of looking them up for people.

My advice is to use a driver cleaner when there's a problem--mostly because I'm lazy.

But if using a driver cleaner for every driver change would have no ill effect and yet prevent some of these obscure problems in the future, what is the problem?

 

[nitromullet]

Looks like we're back to where we were on page one of this thread... The question posed by the OP is whether there is any real need for Driver Cleaner or is it just internet lore? Simply re-stating the lore doesn't prove it to be true.

 

[imported_Slimy]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
I don't remember the last time I paid for driver updates, do you?

I paid for continued support when I bought my card. Further, the original drivers that shipped with my video card also suffer the same problem.

You're actually talking about this as if it was something that matters. Why?

Because this is a serious problem that affects nearly every piece of Windows software I've installed in the last decade. And it's not just a problem with drivers. Most applications and games have the same problems.

There are far more important things in the world to worry about than whether or not drivers properly uninstall. Especially when we have ways of doing it. This is micro-miniscule, so don't blow it up to be something more than it is.

It's actually a substantial problem for people who install/remove a lot of software. The fact that there's little discussion about this problem is likely the reason it's been going on so long.

Yes, drivers and all updates are inclusive in the price of the card, I know. But it's kind of transparent and not a continuing pay policy when new drivers are released. When I buy a vid card, I don't think about how much the drivers are going to cost me. I Just think about how much the card costs. Business model or not, I don't feel the burden of paying for driver improvements/updates.

Just because you don't think about the cost of the drivers, or feel the burden of paying for them, doesn't mean you aren't paying for them. They are as much a part of the product as the hardware, itself. You didn't buy a card. you bought a card, a warranty, documentation, software, and support. Whether you care about any of those things beyond the card doesn't change the fact that you paid for them all.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: nitromullet

I don't remember the last time I paid for driver updates, do you?

The last time you bought a video card you paid for driver updates. Drivers are released with known bugs in them in order to get the product out the door. We accept this trade off because we want to be able to buy the product in a reasonable amount of time. However, we still expect and demand ongoing development and fixes to the drivers, and hardware manufacturers know this and add it to the cost of the item. Ongoing driver support for a product is part of the way this business model works, and you can bet we as consumers aren't getting updates for 'free'.

While it's true we're stuck using third-party solutions to compensate for the shortcoming of poorly designed software, expecting the software that you paid for to actually work the way it's supposed to hardly constitutes laziness.

What is your basis for your claim? There is simply no evidence that supports the claim that after un-installation either current ATI or NVIDIA drivers leave behind some 'remnants' that adversely affect the performance of your PC, and certainly nothing to support the notion that running Driver Cleaner would fix this issue if it existed.

So you think that Nvidia charged people $450 for a 8800GTS at release because they knew it would take a year for a working driver in Vista? Seriously!? That's what you said above. " hardware manufacturers know this and add it to the cost of the item. " Think about this for a minute. In most cases drivers are tested on clean systems with fresh windows installs without hundreds of random drivers and leftovers installed. It is not uncommon for users to have issues with drivers once it's all installed on their system. They can never account for random drivers that conflict and new games that are released 9+ months after a card's release. That reason, and that reason alone, is why there are driver updates. They want their prodct to function for their users. No manufacturer really wants their hardware to never work properly. Sometimes the team working on the driver just isn't good at getting things done. Typically there is a hardware team and then a driver team. You can never really blame the hardware side when the issue is n the software which comes from a seperate team. Like I said, sometimes the team can't get it right...I dare you to write a driver and see if your un-installer works.

 

[nullpointerus]

Originally posted by: nitromullet
Looks like we're back to where we were on page one of this thread... The question posed by the OP is whether there is any real need for Driver Cleaner or is it just internet lore? Simply re-stating the lore doesn't prove it to be true.

That would be why I did not "simply [restate] the lore." I asserted that specific threads exist that answer your question; therefore, if you wish to draw conclusions about the usefulness of driver cleaners, you are reponsible for finding the relevant threads. The nature of these forums is such that even minor contributions are still meaningful.

But you can go back to square one if you wish.

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: nullpointerus

Originally posted by: nitromullet
Looks like we're back to where we were on page one of this thread... The question posed by the OP is whether there is any real need for Driver Cleaner or is it just internet lore? Simply re-stating the lore doesn't prove it to be true.

That would be why I did not "simply [restate] the lore." I asserted that specific threads exist that answer your question; therefore, if you wish to draw conclusions about the usefulness of driver cleaners, you are reponsible for finding the relevant threads. The nature of these forums is such that even minor contributions are still meaningful.

But you can go back to square one if you wish.

I am drawing a conclusion about DC's usefulness, and thus far no one has been able to provide any factual evidence that it helps. Sorry, some threads written by some people somewhere don't exactly count as factual data in my book.

If it really helps, it should be a simple matter to prove... DC removes (or claims to remove) a specific set of files related to various manufacturers' drivers. If there is some evidence that shows that the driver un-installer leaves a specific file or files on your PC that has an adverse affect on the operation of the PC/video card, and these files are successfully removed by Driver Cleaner then you would have some proof. More people talking about how they think it helped or it's probably a good idea to use, however, it not evidence that DC is at all useful.

So you think that Nvidia charged people $450 for a 8800GTS at release because they knew it would take a year for a working driver in Vista? Seriously!?

They knew that even after the cards and initial drivers (with known issues) were released that they would have to support the hardware with bug fixes and additional support for future games, and this ongoing development is factored into the prices of all their products. I imagine that the higher margin cards like the 8800GTS/GTX and early adoptors probably end up paying for a large portion of the development that mid-range cards and more budget minded consumers benefit from.

 

[ronnn]

pretty easy to see. Run driver cleaner in normal mode and see what it finds and delete. Some files are still there. Run it in safe mode and those files are deleted for good, but registry entries do remain behind. I do think it has helped with stability issues, but can't prove it.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Slimy

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
I don't remember the last time I paid for driver updates, do you?

I paid for continued support when I bought my card. Further, the original drivers that shipped with my video card also suffer the same problem.

Well, you'll be delighted to know, there are a whole barnyard of drivers to choose from on the manufacturers web site.

You're actually talking about this as if it was something that matters. Why?

Because this is a serious problem that affects nearly every piece of Windows software I've installed in the last decade. And it's not just a problem with drivers. Most applications and games have the same problems.

I'm sorry, did you just say this was a serious problem? Please get some perspective on this subject. Yikes. The last decade? You are seriously doing things wrong my friend. And apparently time doesn't have a learning effect on you.

There are far more important things in the world to worry about than whether or not drivers properly uninstall. Especially when we have ways of doing it. This is micro-miniscule, so don't blow it up to be something more than it is.

It's actually a substantial problem for people who install/remove a lot of software. The fact that there's little discussion about this problem is likely the reason it's been going on so long.

It's only a problem when there aren't "any" solutions for it. And there are. Just because it's not exactly the way you'd like it to be, doesn't mean it's a serious problem. And just so you know, it's going to go on for a lot longer. New hardware and new drivers constantly being pumped out at breakneck speed isn't going to make things any easier on devs. I'm not excusing any of this by the way, and I understand that there are folks who rings bells about things that almost everyone else can deal with but themselves.

Yes, drivers and all updates are inclusive in the price of the card, I know. But it's kind of transparent and not a continuing pay policy when new drivers are released. When I buy a vid card, I don't think about how much the drivers are going to cost me. I Just think about how much the card costs. Business model or not, I don't feel the burden of paying for driver improvements/updates.

Just because you don't think about the cost of the drivers, or feel the burden of paying for them, doesn't mean you aren't paying for them. They are as much a part of the product as the hardware, itself. You didn't buy a card. you bought a card, a warranty, documentation, software, and support. Whether you care about any of those things beyond the card doesn't change the fact that you paid for them all.

And just because you do think this is a serious problem, doesn't mean it is a serious problem. You seek perfection in an imperfect world my friend. Your in for an ocean of disappointment. You buy a card, warranty, documentation, software and support. It's very pleasant when all work the way they were intended. But, the card could be DOA, or have a defect. You can use your warranty, and you'd think it would go as smooth as silk, but wait, you get the wrong tech at the wrong time on the phone and screws something up. Hmmm, oh yes, a page missing from the manual that should have been there, or you accidentally get the manual in another language. Software has bugs, you must deal with this as we all do. Nothing is perfect. nor can be. Support falls under driver improvements, bug fixes, tech support and the rest. All can have a smooth operation or fail miserably.

Imperfect world has to be dealt with using other measures that are they themselves, imperfect. We do the best we can, and I suspect others do as well, like a driver team, or developers. The sooner you realize this, the better. Don't take another decade to get there.

 

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: nitromullet

I don't remember the last time I paid for driver updates, do you?

The last time you bought a video card you paid for driver updates. Drivers are released with known bugs in them in order to get the product out the door. We accept this trade off because we want to be able to buy the product in a reasonable amount of time. However, we still expect and demand ongoing development and fixes to the drivers, and hardware manufacturers know this and add it to the cost of the item. Ongoing driver support for a product is part of the way this business model works, and you can bet we as consumers aren't getting updates for 'free'.

While it's true we're stuck using third-party solutions to compensate for the shortcoming of poorly designed software, expecting the software that you paid for to actually work the way it's supposed to hardly constitutes laziness.

What is your basis for your claim? There is simply no evidence that supports the claim that after un-installation either current ATI or NVIDIA drivers leave behind some 'remnants' that adversely affect the performance of your PC, and certainly nothing to support the notion that running Driver Cleaner would fix this issue if it existed.

So you think that Nvidia charged people $450 for a 8800GTS at release because they knew it would take a year for a working driver in Vista? Seriously!? That's what you said above. " hardware manufacturers know this and add it to the cost of the item. " Think about this for a minute. In most cases drivers are tested on clean systems with fresh windows installs without hundreds of random drivers and leftovers installed. It is not uncommon for users to have issues with drivers once it's all installed on their system. They can never account for random drivers that conflict and new games that are released 9+ months after a card's release. That reason, and that reason alone, is why there are driver updates. They want their prodct to function for their users. No manufacturer really wants their hardware to never work properly. Sometimes the team working on the driver just isn't good at getting things done. Typically there is a hardware team and then a driver team. You can never really blame the hardware side when the issue is n the software which comes from a seperate team. Like I said, sometimes the team can't get it right...I dare you to write a driver and see if your un-installer works.

I think that we all pay for driver updates. Think about it, does anybody know how many full time software devs nvidia or AMD employ just to keep drivers updated? A few of us might guess "none", but realistically, they are spending many millions of dollars per year on them. It's a cost of doing business, and just like all their other costs, they must pass it on to their customer or risk going out of business.

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: ronnn
pretty easy to see. Run driver cleaner in normal mode and see what it finds and delete. Some files are still there. Run it in safe mode and those files are deleted for good, but registry entries do remain behind. I do think it has helped with stability issues, but can't prove it.

Sure, it's pretty easy to see, but what are you actually seeing that would indicate that DC is helping your video card perform?

In normal mode the driver files are in use, so they can not be deleted. When you boot into safe mode Windows loads some basic VGA drivers that it ships with (that's what your display is low res and 16-bit color), so the NV/ATI driver files can be erased. You can erase them yourself if you want to in safe mode, and you would be doing the same thing as DC. That however, doesn't really answer the question of whether deleting these files has any (positive) affect on system performance.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Originally posted by: ronnn
pretty easy to see. Run driver cleaner in normal mode and see what it finds and delete. Some files are still there. Run it in safe mode and those files are deleted for good, but registry entries do remain behind. I do think it has helped with stability issues, but can't prove it.

Sure, it's pretty easy to see, but what are you actually seeing that would indicate that DC is helping your video card perform?

In normal mode the driver files are in use, so they can not be deleted. When you boot into safe mode Windows loads some basic VGA drivers that it ships with (that's what your display is low res and 16-bit color), so the NV/ATI driver files can be erased. You can erase them yourself if you want to in safe mode, and you would be doing the same thing as DC. That however, doesn't really answer the question of whether deleting these files has any (positive) affect on system performance.

So does this mean that you do agree that DC "does" do something? The (positive) effect is when it removes file that can cause (negative) effects. Something that you said we can go in and delete ourselves. I really don't know how, or why, you picked this particular battle.

You should think about starting a poll and ask if when people ran into problems, such as poorer than usual performance when updating drivers, or switching from ATI to NV or reversed, did they have good results, worse results, or unchanged when using driver cleaner.

I can count on one hand the times I used DC, and that was when I went from an Nvidia card to an ATI card, and also when I went from an ATI card to an Nvidia card. I didn't have any performance problems because I didn't give myself a chance to have them. I ran DC right from the start before switching cards. I saw plenty of files removed on both counts. Files that were found after the uninstallers were run.

This link is to DH, where the creator of DC "lives".
Link
There are pretty extensive discussions about DC there. Maybe you should check them out if you are seeking proof of DC's right to exist. You use Vista don't you? If so, this is right up your alley.

 

[nullpointerus]

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Originally posted by: nullpointerus

Originally posted by: nitromullet
Looks like we're back to where we were on page one of this thread... The question posed by the OP is whether there is any real need for Driver Cleaner or is it just internet lore? Simply re-stating the lore doesn't prove it to be true.

That would be why I did not "simply [restate] the lore." I asserted that specific threads exist that answer your question; therefore, if you wish to draw conclusions about the usefulness of driver cleaners, you are reponsible for finding the relevant threads. The nature of these forums is such that even minor contributions are still meaningful.

But you can go back to square one if you wish.

I am drawing a conclusion about DC's usefulness, and thus far no one has been able to provide any factual evidence that it helps. Sorry, some threads written by some people somewhere don't exactly count as factual data in my book.

If it really helps, it should be a simple matter to prove... DC removes (or claims to remove) a specific set of files related to various manufacturers' drivers. If there is some evidence that shows that the driver un-installer leaves a specific file or files on your PC that has an adverse affect on the operation of the PC/video card, and these files are successfully removed by Driver Cleaner then you would have some proof. More people talking about how they think it helped or it's probably a good idea to use, however, it not evidence that DC is at all useful.

True, but irrelevant. Clearly, my posts were not intended as evidence of anything:

I asserted that specific threads exist that answer your question; therefore, if you wish to draw conclusions about the usefulness of driver cleaners, you are reponsible for finding the relevant threads.

That sounds an awful lot like "If you want proof, find it yourself; I'm merely telling you there would be something worth the effort if you wish to try." Responding with this:

Sorry, some threads written by some people somewhere don't exactly count as factual data in my book.

...is just an attempt to slam me.

This thread exists for the benefit of people who have doubts about driver cleaners. Over time in this forum, I have seen the factual data of which you speak, so in my mind the question has already been answered. The outcome of this thread is irrelevant to me. I respond simply because you keep misrepresenting what I have written.

/interest

 

[Rhoxed]

I had to use a driver cleaner when switching from a evga 7800GT to a bfg 8600GTS OC, it kept detecting the 8600GTS as a 8600GS and would not report my clocks correctly.

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Originally posted by: ronnn
pretty easy to see. Run driver cleaner in normal mode and see what it finds and delete. Some files are still there. Run it in safe mode and those files are deleted for good, but registry entries do remain behind. I do think it has helped with stability issues, but can't prove it.

Sure, it's pretty easy to see, but what are you actually seeing that would indicate that DC is helping your video card perform?

In normal mode the driver files are in use, so they can not be deleted. When you boot into safe mode Windows loads some basic VGA drivers that it ships with (that's what your display is low res and 16-bit color), so the NV/ATI driver files can be erased. You can erase them yourself if you want to in safe mode, and you would be doing the same thing as DC. That however, doesn't really answer the question of whether deleting these files has any (positive) affect on system performance.

So does this mean that you do agree that DC "does" do something? The (positive) effect is when it removes file that can cause (negative) effects. Something that you said we can go in and delete ourselves. I really don't know how, or why, you picked this particular battle.

You should think about starting a poll and ask if when people ran into problems, such as poorer than usual performance when updating drivers, or switching from ATI to NV or reversed, did they have good results, worse results, or unchanged when using driver cleaner.

I can count on one hand the times I used DC, and that was when I went from an Nvidia card to an ATI card, and also when I went from an ATI card to an Nvidia card. I didn't have any performance problems because I didn't give myself a chance to have them. I ran DC right from the start before switching cards. I saw plenty of files removed on both counts. Files that were found after the uninstallers were run.

This link is to DH, where the creator of DC "lives".
Link
There are pretty extensive discussions about DC there. Maybe you should check them out if you are seeking proof of DC's right to exist. You use Vista don't you? If so, this is right up your alley.

Keys, at the end of all this I don't really care if you want to keep on recommending DC because you *think* it could be doing some good, and if others want to give the DC folks $10 based on your recommendation... My concern is that there seems to be a lot of people that buy the claims that this thing is actually doing some good just based on hearsay and the "better safe than sorry" concept. It is a bit disappointing to me the see such a lack of critical thinking and analysis on a tech forum.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: nitromullet


Keys, at the end of all this I don't really care if you want to keep on recommending DC because you *think* it could be doing some good, and if others want to give the DC folks $10 based on your recommendation... My concern is that there seems to be a lot of people that buy the claims that this thing is actually doing some good just based on hearsay and the "better safe than sorry" concept. It is a bit disappointing to me the see such a lack of critical thinking and analysis on a tech forum.

Derailment. Where did I say " I think it can be doing something good. "?
I gave you a link to a forum that houses EXTENSIVE discussions on driver cleaner, including participation of it's creator. If that doesn't show you that I am trying to give you what you need, I don't know what does. If you clicked on the link I provided, and then come back and say it tells you nothing, then we got problems.

By the way, DC has been Freeware up until fairly recently. I had no idea it now costs 10 bucks.
People will have a big problem paying for something they have gotten for free for years now. So I can see where your angst may be coming from.

 

[nitromullet]

Where did I say " I think it can be doing something good. "?

So, umm... you don't think Driver Cleaner does any good...? You just suggest and use it for no apparent reason?

My so called "angst" is not against DC, my issue is with how so many people will recommend its usage based on hearsay and anecdotal evidence.

I actually checked out the DC forums way before you ever posted your link. This whole acceptance of DC hook, line, and sinker by this and other tech boards has sort of intrigued me for a while now, so I have no qualms with doing a little 'research'. The link you posted is only one topic in the forum, and it appears to be a "praise DC" thread. If you actually go to the main DC forum page you will notice that there are a number of DC help request threads as well, so it looks like there a few people that like DC and some that have issues with it.