VA Tech shooter was laughed at

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070419/ap_on_re_us/virginia_tech_shooting_285

Va. Tech shooter was laughed at By MATT APUZZO, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 2 minutes ago

BLACKSBURG, Va. - Long before he boiled over, Virginia Tech gunman Cho Seung-Hui was picked on, pushed around and laughed at over his shyness and the strange way he talked when he was a schoolboy in the Washington suburbs, former classmates say.

Chris Davids, a Virginia Tech senior who graduated from Westfield High School in Chantilly, Va., with Cho in 2003, recalled that the South Korean immigrant almost never opened his mouth and would ignore attempts to strike up a conversation.

Once, in English class, the teacher had the students read aloud, and when it was Cho's turn, he just looked down in silence, Davids recalled. Finally, after the teacher threatened him with an F for participation, Cho started to read in a strange, deep voice that sounded "like he had something in his mouth," Davids said.

"As soon as he started reading, the whole class started laughing and pointing and saying, `Go back to China,'" Davids said.

Cho shot 32 people to death and committed suicide Monday in the deadliest one-man shooting rampage in modern U.S. history. The high school classmates' accounts add to the psychological portrait that is beginning to take shape, and could shed light on Cho's state of mind in the video rant he mailed to NBC in the middle of his rampage at Virginia Tech.

In the often-incoherent video, the 23-year-old Cho portrays himself as persecuted and rants about rich kids.

"Your Mercedes wasn't enough, you brats," says Cho, who came to the U.S. in 1992 and whose parents work at a dry cleaners in suburban Washington. "Your golden necklaces weren't enough, you snobs. Your trust funds wasn't enough. Your vodka and cognac wasn't enough. All your debaucheries weren't enough. Those weren't enough to fulfill your hedonistic needs. You had everything."

Among the victims of the massacre were two other Westfield High graduates: Reema Samaha and Erin Peterson. Both young women graduated from the high school last year. Police said it is not clear whether Cho singled them out.

Stephanie Roberts, 22, a fellow member of Cho's graduating class at Westfield High, said she never witnessed anyone picking on Cho in high school.

"I just remember he was a shy kid who didn't really want to talk to anybody," she said. "I guess a lot of people felt like maybe there was a language barrier."

But she said friends of hers who went to middle school with Cho told her they recalled him getting picked on there.

"There were just some people who were really mean to him and they would push him down and laugh at him," Roberts said Wednesday. "He didn't speak English really well and they would really make fun of him."

Virginia Tech student Alison Heck said a suitemate of hers on campus ? Christina Lilick ? found a mysterious question mark scrawled on the dry erase board on her door. Lilick went to the same high school as Cho, according to Lilick's Facebook page. Cho once scrawled a question mark on the sign-in sheet on the first day of a literature class, and other students came to know him as "the question mark kid."

"I don't know if she knew that it was him for sure," Heck said. "I do remember that that fall that she was being stalked and she had mentioned the question mark. And there was a question mark on her door."

Heck added: "She just let us know about it just in case there was a strange person walking around our suite."

Lilick could not immediately be located for comment, via e-mail or telephone.

Regan Wilder, 21, who attended Virginia Tech, high school and middle school with Cho, said she was in several classes with Cho in high school, including advanced-placement calculus and Spanish. She said he walked around with his head down, and almost never spoke. And when he did, it was "a real low mutter, like a whisper."

As part of an exam in Spanish class, students had to answer questions in Spanish on tape, and other students were so curious to know what Cho sounded like that they waited eagerly for the teacher to play his recording, she said. She said that on the tape, he did not speak confidently but did seem to know Spanish.

Wilder recalled high school teachers trying to get him to participate, but "he would only shrug his shoulders or he'd give like two-word responses, and I think it just got to the point where teachers just gave up because they realized he wasn't going to come out of the shell he was in, so they just kind of passed him over for the most part as time went on."

She said she was sure Cho probably was picked on in middle school, but so was everyone else. And it didn't seem as if English was the problem for him, she said. If he didn't speak English well, there were several other Korean students he could have reached out to for friendship, but he didn't, she said.

Wilder said Cho wasn't any friendlier in college, where "he always had that same damn blank stare, like glare, on his face. And I'd always try to make eye contact with him because I recognized the kid because I'd seen him for six years, but he'd always just look right past you like you weren't there."

On Wednesday, NBC received a package containing a rambling and often incoherent 23-page written statement from Cho, 28 video clips and 43 photos ? many of them showing Cho, in a military-style vest and backward baseball cap, brandishing handguns. A Postal Service time stamp reads 9:01 a.m. ? between the two attacks on campus.

The package helped explain one mystery: where the gunman was and what he did during that two-hour window between the first burst of gunfire, at a high-rise dorm, and the second attack, at a classroom building.

"You had a hundred billion chances and ways to have avoided today," a snarling Cho says on video. "But you decided to spill my blood. You forced me into a corner and gave me only one option. The decision was yours. Now you have blood on your hands that will never wash off."

Col. Steve Flaherty, superintendent of the Virginia State Police, said Thursday that the material contained little they did not already know. Flaherty said he was disappointed that NBC decided to broadcast parts of it.

"I just hate that a lot of people not used to seeing that type of image had to see it," he said.

On NBC's "Today" show Thursday, host Meredith Vieira said the decision to air the information "was not taken lightly." Some victims' relatives canceled their plans to speak with NBC because they were upset over the airing of the images, she said.

"I saw his picture on TV, and when I did I just got chills," said Kristy Venning, a junior from Franklin County, Va. "There's really no words. It shows he put so much thought into this and I think it's sick."

There has been some speculation, especially among online forums, that Cho may have been inspired by the South Korean movie "Oldboy." One of the killer's mailed photos shows him brandishing a hammer ? the signature weapon of the protagonist ? and in a pose similar to one from the film.

The film won the Grand Prix prize at the Cannes Film Festival in 2004. It is about a man unjustly imprisoned for 15 years. After escaping, he goes on a rampage against his captor.

Authorities on Thursday disclosed that more than a year before the massacre, Cho had been accused of sending unwanted messages to two women and was taken to a psychiatric hospital on a magistrate's orders and was pronounced a danger to himself. But he was released with orders to undergo outpatient treatment.

Also, Cho's twisted, violence-filled writings and menacing, uncommunicative demeanor had disturbed professors and students so much that he was removed from one English class and was repeatedly urged to get counseling.

Just like in Paducah, Springfield, and Columbine, we have a situation where a mentally disturbed loner was picked on until he snapped. And yet, amidst all the knee-jerker cries for gun control, no one is arguing for an end to the bullying. WHY?

Are you looking for a "culture of death" in America? Find it here, in the horrible way in which we treat each other. In the way those who can't or won't conform to the group are ostracized and humiliated. How many more need to die before we learn to respect each other, even those who are different from the rest?
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
I called for a law against bullying in another thread.

Let's call it hate speech, that way the Democrats will vote for it.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
I'm not interested in partisanship or partisan remarks. Read my post and then look at yourselves. Your gangs of thugs are the problem. God forbid anyone decide not to join one of your little cliques. How could any individual be so "selfish" as to deny your little collective, right?
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
0
0
I agree with the general theme of the OP but let's not get to far ahead of ourselves. This kid needed better parents, better teachers, etc . . . but you are going a bit far.

1) The cries for better gun control is from the perspective of a state with relatively lax gun laws (or maybe better stated as less stringent).

2) Nobody knew the kid was bullied 24hrs ago. So maybe the left wingnut pundits you've been hearing would have talked more about bullying if they knew it might have played a role in his actions.

3) His actions are no less deplorable just b/c he was teased. In my estimation, dozens upon dozens of people TRIED to talk to this guy over the years. The adults FAILED him but once you become an adult you are responsible for your actions.

#3 is NOT a suggestion that you are making excuses for him or excusing his actions. I certainly agree that we've got a pretty lame superficial society that basically teaches even the youngest child to categorize based on 'us' versus 'them'.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
Originally posted by: Vic
I'm not interested in partisanship or partisan remarks. Read my post and then look at yourselves. Your gangs of thugs are the problem. God forbid anyone decide not to join one of your little cliques. How could any individual be so "selfish" as to deny your little collective, right?


No, we need to join yours, right?

The system clearyly failed this individual, but what gives you the right to sit back in judgment and blame it all on someone else. We're all responsible, yourself included.
 

blackllotus

Golden Member
May 30, 2005
1,875
0
0
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I called for a law against bullying in another thread.

Let's call it hate speech, that way the Democrats will vote for it.

A law is not a good idea because it is difficult to precisely define bullying and it would probably not be enforced. The main problem is that schools generally don't interfere with bullying unless theres a fight. Some people will claim that bullying helps toughen kids up and they may be right in general however bullying can also severely damage a kid emotionally. Schools should have a system set up where kids who are bullied or antisocial can be counseled starting from a young age (high school is too late).
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,333
9,539
136
I?ll propose a law, everyone must join a new religion with a single commandment ?Love thyself and thy neighbor?, and heathens shall be burned alive at the stake.

Realistically, people are going to treat each other with malice, it?s just a fact of life which most of us handle just fine. Others have a weakness; it eats at us, and causes mental illness. From that point on we failed to treat him properly, but to propose that we change human behavior in our entire society is one hell of a charge. I do not see it happening.
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,060
1
0
I bore the brunt of bullying in middleschool too, and in some ways i'm still dealing with it, almost a decade later. That said, i don't think there is much you can do about it.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Vic
I'm not interested in partisanship or partisan remarks. Read my post and then look at yourselves. Your gangs of thugs are the problem. God forbid anyone decide not to join one of your little cliques. How could any individual be so "selfish" as to deny your little collective, right?


No, we need to join yours, right?

The system clearyly failed this individual, but what gives you the right to sit back in judgment and blame it all on someone else. We're all responsible, yourself included.

I don't belong to one, so there's nothing for you to join. And none of us are responsible. Only one person is responsible, and he shot himself.

This response from you does not surprise me though. In a way, it's exactly what I'm talking about.

I certainly agree that we've got a pretty lame superficial society that basically teaches even the youngest child to categorize based on 'us' versus 'them'.
And THIS is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. I'm glad someone got it. Thanks, Doc!
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Bullying will always exist. All we can do is punish it more uniformly.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
This turns out to be somewhat of a testable hypothesis and not a chicken and the egg problem.

But the chicken and the egg problem boils down to a self-fulfilling prophecy---if you act weird---people don't like you---so you can act less weird and hope people like you better.
Or act weirder and people still won't like you.

But once incident sticks in my mind---the Prof decided it was expel Cho or lose the rest of the class---so she expelled Cho but did do some one on one counseling and tutoring.
And Cho still acted weird. Some people grow out of it---the real nuts grow into it.
 

imported_Shivetya

Platinum Member
Jul 7, 2005
2,978
1
0
Originally posted by: Vic
I'm not interested in partisanship or partisan remarks. Read my post and then look at yourselves. Your gangs of thugs are the problem. God forbid anyone decide not to join one of your little cliques. How could any individual be so "selfish" as to deny your little collective, right?


It still does not excuse his actions. He was a dangerous person, medically decided, who was still allowed to operate in the real world. That is like having a ticking time bomb in your possession or playing Russian roulette.

Do not try to justify or excuse his actions, they aren't. What you are doing is nothing more original than rapist saying her ways of dressing made them rape her or "she asked for it" .

Pure idiocy.

Face it, there are some people not fit to be in society and its a crime if we identify them and don't do anything about it
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
I propose more simple solution sweeping generalizations!

And uh... more labels too. Definitely we need more labels. Can't have too much dehumanization for sure.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: Shivetya
It still does not excuse his actions. He was a dangerous person, medically decided, who was still allowed to operate in the real world. That is like having a ticking time bomb in your possession or playing Russian roulette.

Do not try to justify or excuse his actions, they aren't. What you are doing is nothing more original than rapist saying her ways of dressing made them rape her or "she asked for it" .

Pure idiocy.

Face it, there are some people not fit to be in society and its a crime if we identify them and don't do anything about it

Ah, yes... the "kill them before they kill us" mentality, wrapped up in accusations that to think otherwise is to try to excuse/justify a murderer's actions.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: senseamp
This kid should have had psychiatric therapy long long time ago.
"An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."
 

glutenberg

Golden Member
Sep 2, 2004
1,941
0
0
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Shivetya
It still does not excuse his actions. He was a dangerous person, medically decided, who was still allowed to operate in the real world. That is like having a ticking time bomb in your possession or playing Russian roulette.

Do not try to justify or excuse his actions, they aren't. What you are doing is nothing more original than rapist saying her ways of dressing made them rape her or "she asked for it" .

Pure idiocy.

Face it, there are some people not fit to be in society and its a crime if we identify them and don't do anything about it

Ah, yes... the "kill them before they kill us" mentality, wrapped up in accusations that to think otherwise is to try to excuse/justify a murderer's actions.

Do you have a solution for the way children treat children Vic?
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Vic
I'm not interested in partisanship or partisan remarks. Read my post and then look at yourselves. Your gangs of thugs are the problem. God forbid anyone decide not to join one of your little cliques. How could any individual be so "selfish" as to deny your little collective, right?


No, we need to join yours, right?

The system clearyly failed this individual, but what gives you the right to sit back in judgment and blame it all on someone else. We're all responsible, yourself included.

I don't belong to one, so there's nothing for you to join. And none of us are responsible. Only one person is responsible, and he shot himself.

This response from you does not surprise me though. In a way, it's exactly what I'm talking about.

I certainly agree that we've got a pretty lame superficial society that basically teaches even the youngest child to categorize based on 'us' versus 'them'.
And THIS is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. I'm glad someone got it. Thanks, Doc!

No man is an island, entire of itself, not even Vic.

 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
11,112
1,586
126
The problem with bullying is that even kids know that bullying someone is pushing them to the limit of their mental health. Hell, I was bullied ALOT in elementary, middle school, and a little in high school. Once I hit my growth spurt and ended up being larger than most of my bullies, they fell back on verbal irritation. I found out second year in college from someone a year below me in high school, that apparantly most of the school thought I was ready to snap and start killing people. I heard from people I knew that there were many who thought I had a hit list. One of my best friends signed my yearbook voting me "Most likely to be found on a bell tower with a high powered assault rifle". Yet, despite all that, they still picked on me. It's like kids were trying to push me to the point of snapping. And I admit that at points I was probably pretty close. But I never committed a single act of violence and I kept largely to myself. I think I got through it largely thanks to my LACK of religion. FYI I graduated a year before Columbine, otherwise I'd probably have been forced into some form of psychiatric evaluation.

But the simple message is it's not as much the shooters parents who failed, it's everyone else's. My parents raised me right, but you don't want to tell your parents when kids are picking on you, it's embarassing. It's even more embarassing to have parents intervene in bullying, because then it gets worse, but the kids hide it better. The people who failed at raising their kids are the parents of the bullies.

Unfortunately there's no real way to prevent bullying without a complete zero tolerance policy. Because it happened to me and happened to others, that when you try to report the bullying, nothing happens outside of a small warning to the bully. And the bullying gets 10 times worse and you literally fear for your life at times.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: glutenberg
Do you have a solution for the way children treat children Vic?
I imagine the solution lies in the way that parents treat other parents.
 

glutenberg

Golden Member
Sep 2, 2004
1,941
0
0
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: glutenberg
Do you have a solution for the way children treat children Vic?
I imagine the solution lies in the way that parents treat other parents.

It's probably more along the lines of how parents act in front of their children in regards to others. This will eventually lead to a case of are there children who are just naturally mischievous that are outside of the influences of their parents and what to do with them.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: glutenberg
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: glutenberg
Do you have a solution for the way children treat children Vic?
I imagine the solution lies in the way that parents treat other parents.

It's probably more along the lines of how parents act in front of their children in regards to others. This will eventually lead to a case of are there children who are just naturally mischievous that are outside of the influences of their parents and what to do with them.

I won't disagree but, ask yourself, how well have generalizations and impersonalizations, like you're using, worked to combat this problem thus far?
 

blackllotus

Golden Member
May 30, 2005
1,875
0
0
Originally posted by: Shivetya
Originally posted by: Vic
I'm not interested in partisanship or partisan remarks. Read my post and then look at yourselves. Your gangs of thugs are the problem. God forbid anyone decide not to join one of your little cliques. How could any individual be so "selfish" as to deny your little collective, right?


It still does not excuse his actions. He was a dangerous person, medically decided, who was still allowed to operate in the real world. That is like having a ticking time bomb in your possession or playing Russian roulette.

Do not try to justify or excuse his actions, they aren't. What you are doing is nothing more original than rapist saying her ways of dressing made them rape her or "she asked for it" .

Pure idiocy.

I think Vic is trying to explain the shooters actions not excuse them. The shooter may very well be a bad person but its still important to understand what motivated him. People, even weird ones, don't just randomly decide to murder a bunch of other people and then commit suicide. From listening to the video clips that NBC has published its clear that the shooter felt abandoned by society.
 
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