[VC] GTX780 Ti Performance

[Nomanor]

You think that Ti price is expensive? LOL

Watch how many are available at launch. They are going to be sold out everywhere for the next 3 months.

 

[hawtdawg]

You think that Ti price is expensive? LOL

Watch how many are available at launch. They are going to be sold out everywhere for the next 3 months.

The 780 and Titan werent, why would the Ti be?

 

[wand3r3r]

Nice to see a guaranteed base clock!

Interesting change of tone, at least it's apparently not too little too late etc.

 

[Saylick]

I suppose NV doesn't have to since they know they'll sell all of them for people who just want the bragging rights for the fastest gaming GPU. Can't help but think that $700 is way too much though in light of 20nm GPUs launching within 12 months I presume and R9 290s in XF beating this thing handily. Also the pricing gap between cards like MSI Lightning and Galaxy HOF seems too much for what is likely just a 15% difference in performance.

I, too, think that $700 is priced too high, but you and I both know that nVidia has their pricing figured out; they've most likely taken account of 20-nm class GPUs arriving within a year and still have the utmost confidence that the 780 Ti will still sell like hotcakes at $700.

Here's what I can say about the 780 Ti, however. In parody of JHH's introduction of the 780 Ti, i.e. "the performance is high, and the power is low", the price will be high, and the supply will be low.

 

[RussianSensation]

You think that Ti price is expensive? LOL

Watch how many are available at launch. They are going to be sold out everywhere for the next 3 months.

Yes. This card will end up what 18-20% faster than R9 290 for 75% more cost?

Option 1: MSI Lightning 780 for $515. 780Ti might be 15-18% faster once both are max overclocked but cost 35% more.

Option 2: This is more killer to 780Ti. Dual R9 290s in after-market form will lay waste to it by at least 50% for less than $150 extra.

Context: $700 GPU with 20nm GPUs slated to drop next year is just poor timing. Just because a GPU sells well, doesn't mean it's a rational purchase. Just look at $1000 GTX690 crippled that will become a paperweight really soon due to just 2GB of VRAM and $1000 Titan that is barely faster than a $400 R9 290 8 months later. Both of those cards were terrible buys for gaming.

BF4 performance: R9 290X is beating GTX780 by 28% at 1920x1200. With Mantle, even R9 290 should beat 780Ti without problems for $300 less.

I, too, think that $700 is priced too high, but you and I both know that nVidia has their pricing figured out

This is NV's strategy to make up for lost profit margins on GTX780s. NV continues to be arrogant with their prices even after R9 290's launch. It's pretty unbelievable actually that after AMD tried to bring price/performance back down to earth in the marketplace, NV still continues to push these $700 single GPU prices on us. It's going to be funny when a $449 20nm GPU beats this card in less than 12 months.

 

[ShintaiDK]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...=ATVPDKIKX0DER

780Ti for sale, I guess reviews later today?

 

[Erenhardt]

In 4 hours. Maybe sooner if someone will post too early.
Bring it in!

 

[Saylick]

This is NV's strategy to make up for lost profit margins on GTX780s. NV continues to be arrogant with their prices even after R9 290's launch. It's pretty unbelievable actually that after AMD tried to bring price/performance back down to earth in the marketplace, NV still continues to push these $700 single GPU prices on us. It's going to be funny when a $449 20nm GPU beats this card in less than 12 months.

As much as I'd hate to admit it, so long as nVidia maintains their branding and loyal fanbase, I don't think even $449 20-nm GTX 780 Ti-beating GPUs will save us from their pricing scheme.

I wouldn't be surprised if it pans out this way:

1) 780 Ti goes on sale. Sells like hotcakes.
2) We all wait until Mantle comes out, resulting in more lengthy jib-jab and banter on various forums. nVidia prices stay the same unless Mantle kicks the snot out of AMD cards.
3) We wait until 20nm GPUs are released.
4) AMD comes out with a 20nm sub-400mm^2 GPU for $550, perhaps the 390X. The reference cooler sucks, but it still sells because it's the fastest (and maybe "loudest", depending on who you ask) thing on the block.
5) nVidia loyalists wait for nVidia's offering.
6) GTX 880 rolls out. Costs $650 and is another nVidia big-die GPU: > 500 mm^2. It sells like hotcakes due to loyalists.
.
.
.
Rinse and repeat.

 

[ShintaiDK]

As much as I'd hate to admit it, so long as nVidia maintains their branding and loyal fanbase, I don't think even $449 20-nm GTX 780 Ti-beating GPUs will save us from their pricing scheme.

I wouldn't be surprised if it pans out this way:

1) 780 Ti goes on sale. Sells like hotcakes.
2) We all wait until Mantle comes out, resulting in more lengthy jib-jab and banter on various forums. nVidia prices stay the same unless Mantle kicks the snot out of AMD cards.
3) We wait until 20nm GPUs are released.
4) AMD comes out with a 20nm sub-400mm^2 GPU for $550, perhaps the 390X. The reference cooler sucks, but it still sells because it's the fastest (and maybe "loudest", depending on who you ask) thing on the block.
5) nVidia loyalists wait for nVidia's offering.
6) GTX 880 rolls out. Costs $650 and is another nVidia big-die GPU: > 500 mm^2. It sells like hotcakes due to loyalists.
.
.
.
Rinse and repeat.

Oh the sheep argument again, its already gotten this low?

 

[RussianSensation]

As much as I'd hate to admit it, so long as nVidia maintains their branding and loyal fanbase, I don't think even $449 20-nm GTX 780 Ti-beating GPUs will save us from their pricing scheme.

I wouldn't be surprised if it pans out this way:
.
.
.
Rinse and repeat.

Yup. The market seems to be split between 2 major groups: those who value price/performance and those who only buy NV. I've said it for years that the 2nd group will only switch if an AMD card is 2x faster for 50% of the cost. Even if NV is behind (aka 5870 vs. 280), the 2nd group will wait 6-12 months for NV's response. The reason the first group waits is to get a more reasonable price/performance. The reason the 2nd group waits is because they only buy NV. It doesn't matter to them if AMD is 6 months ahead and is 35-40% faster (5870).

Oh the sheep argument again, its already gotten this low?

Care to explain why 780Ti should cost $699 in light of this:

1) It is going to beat R9 290 by ~ 20% for a 75% price increase.
2) It is going to lose miserably to dual R9 290s that will cost just $100 more.
3) It is going to be playing catch up to R9 290X in crossfire in multi-monitor gaming that cost $300 less.
4) It is going to have trouble beating R9 290 in BF4, before Mantle.

Waiting for you to justify yet another overpriced NV card.

 

[Saylick]

Oh the sheep argument again, its already gotten this low?

There's a reason why I refer to them as loyalists. Sheep implies they are misled or brainwashed to believe something is true. A loyalist knows why they are loyal, and chooses to remain loyal for those reasons. Big difference.

If someone is fan of nVidia becsue they like their combination of performance and features, knows that they are paying a premium for it, and still chooses to do so, that's a loyalist.

Sheep would pay even if nVidia released a completely crappy product, overcharged the heck out of it, only because they heard nVidia was the bomb.

 

[RussianSensation]

Sheep would pay even if nVidia released a completely crappy product, overcharged the heck out of it, only because they heard nVidia was the bomb.

Oh there are plenty of those too. GeForce 5 and GeForce 7 come to mind. Poor image quality and performance. What's ironic is when the loyalists are throwing $700-1000 for NV's GPUs, they are sending a signal to the firm that the previous flagship GPU level of $499-549 is history. In turn, NV realizes it is OK to raises prices 50-100% from historical levels of single flagships. AMD is the only thing keeping the price/performance curve in check right now. I wouldn't be surprised if NV did a repeat of GK104 next generation and released a mid-range card for $499. You bet they are trying very hard to do a repeat because with Tegra failing to take off as expected and sub-$100 GPU market is getting wiped out by APUs and Intel's IRIS. NV's ability to grow cash flows quickly is a difficult path compared to an easy solution which is raising ASPs on its loyalists to prop up profit margins.

 

[Saylick]

Oh there are plenty of those too. GeForce 5 and GeForce 7 come to mind. Poor image quality and performance.

I actually used to own a 5200, PCI version, for that matter. This was a long time ago when I didn't know any better and the guy who sold me the PC told me it was the fastest card they offered. Needless to say, I was clearly ripped off. Learned my lesson the hard way.

 

[Jaydip]

RS by your own logic 290X is a horrible value @ $549.

 

[wand3r3r]

RS by your own logic 290X is a horrible value @ $549.

Clearly it's not a great value. Simply better than the NV alternatives is all. The 780 ti is looking to be worse still anyway.

 

[GaiaHunter]

RS by your own logic 290X is a horrible value @ $549.

With that cooler a single 290X is a horrible value compared to a 290.

A pair of them for high resolutions or triple monitor, not so much.

With a better cooler it most likely end with a small premium over the 290.

 

[JoeRambo]

RS by your own logic 290X is a horrible value @ $549.

And it is. It is in fact disastrous price/perf value. AMD is acting like if they don't want to sell any of them. Custom cooled 290 will be very close to custom cooled 290x performance ( due to the cards beeing near in specs and clock beeing same), but for ~$120 less.

Still, comparing to Nvidia cards it is a bit different, cause you have to CROSS brands. I know quite a few that were burned by AMD "drivers" over years and would not touch their cards unless price/perf is insane or Nvidia does something incredibly stupid. AMD jet like card cooling experience compared to Nvidia quality build and cooling just reinforces their feelings.

So 780 cards will continue to fly off the shelves no matter what. Titan will keep it's DP perf niche ( but of course informed users will no longer buy them for gaming ).

 

[Saylick]

What's ironic is when the loyalists are throwing $700-1000 for NV's GPUs, they are sending a signal to the firm that the previous flagship GPU level of $499-549 is history. In turn, NV realizes it is OK to raises prices 50-100% from historical levels of single flagships. AMD is the only thing keeping the price/performance curve in check right now. I wouldn't be surprised if NV did a repeat of GK104 next generation and released a mid-range card for $499. You bet they are trying very hard to do a repeat because with Tegra failing to take off as expected and sub-$100 GPU market is getting wiped out by APUs and Intel's IRIS. NV's ability to grow cash flows quickly is a difficult path compared to an easy solution which is raising ASPs on its loyalists to prop up profit margins.

It is ironic how it plays out this way. It is ironic that we complain about AMD releasing Tahiti for $550 when more times than not, it has been nVidia who has been driving up the price of flagship GPUs, and yet we still support this trend with our wallet.

I honestly think it's best to let things play out how they will play out. If the loyalists want to spend an extra buck to buy nVidia cards, let them. It's not my money, anyways. If they like what they are getting, then kudos to them. So long as no one forces me to buy something I don't want to buy and that AMD keeps offering reasonably priced products, I'll be satisfied. If AMD starts jacking up their prices because nVidia does, then my respect for them drops.

The best I can hope for is for AMD to do what Blackened keeps mentioning on these forums, i.e. for AMD to get their non-FPS related characteristics up to par, e.g. acoustics. That way, nVidia's largest advantages, which are the big reasons why nVidia loyalists buy nVidia, becomes non-unique to one vendor. Building a brand will take time; AMD still has a long way to go. Until that occurs, I fully expect nVidia to keep selling cards which are more expensive than their competition.

 

[Jaydip]

Clearly it's not a great value. Simply better than the NV alternatives is all. The 780 ti is looking to be worse still anyway.

My point is the fastest cards ate not about value.

 

[GaiaHunter]

The best I can hope for is for AMD to do what Blackened keeps mentioning on these forums, i.e. for AMD to get their non-FPS related characteristics up to par, e.g. acoustics. That way, nVidia's largest advantages, which are the big reasons why nVidia loyalists buy nVidia, becomes non-unique to one vendor. Building a brand will take time; AMD still has a long way to go. Until that occurs, I fully expect nVidia to keep selling cards which are more expensive than their competition.

A single card does not make a full line of products.

290/290X and the 7970 might be a bit too high on power and noise compared to NVIDIA equivalents, but that is not the case of the rest of AMD line up.

It is interesting that AMD high end cards take the brute approach while NVIDIA cards seem more streamlined but on the mid range and low end it is the other way around.

 

[el etro]

Unlike in processors, the market share race in GPUs is thing that we will se tied in a few years.

Russian, are you not curious to see the battle of 1000Mhz Locked 290X versus GTX 780Ti ???

 

[Erenhardt]

A single card does not make a full line of products.

290/290X and the 7970 might be a bit too high on power and noise compared to NVIDIA equivalents, but that is not the case of the rest of AMD line up.

True, but the same is true for nvidia pricing. There are cards (ok one card) that have better perf/$ than its competitor:

 

[Jaydip]

With that cooler a single 290X is a horrible value compared to a 290.

A pair of them for high resolutions or triple monitor, not so much.

With a better cooler it most likely end with a small premium over the 290.

I don't know man because from the benches it seems sometimes the 290 edges out the 290X as well.

 

[Erenhardt]

Unlike in processors, the market share race in GPUs is thing that we will se tied in a few years.

Russian, are you not curious to see the battle of 1000Mhz Locked 290X versus GTX 780Ti ???

Looks like it is tie:

Originally Posted by pgi947 View Post
What speed would say a 780 need to be at to match that 1300mhz [780ti]?

A Classified [780] at 1375MHz core and 7400 ram failed, would need 1450-1500 at a guess and an R290X at about 1300MHz and 6600 ram to match. It's fast!

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=25259632&postcount=809

 

[el etro]

Looks like it is tie:


http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=25259632&postcount=809

Aham!!! Will be good to see this battle...


As well, for overclockers it seems 780Ti will be the better choice...