VERY DISTURBING: Chimeric Experiments

UzairH

Senior member
Dec 12, 2004
315
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Obviously I can't claim the complete accuracy of this article, as I am not a medical doctor or researcher. But this research raises very serious ethical, social and religiuos issues:

FROM http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1437701,00.html

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Are you a man or a mouse?

Chimeric experimentation is producing animal-human hybrids. This time, science really has gone too far

Jeremy Rifkin
Tuesday March 15, 2005
The Guardian

What happens when you cross a human and a mouse? Sounds like the beginning of a bad joke but, in fact, it's a serious experiment recently carried out by a team headed by a distinguished molecular biologist, Irving Weissman, at Stanford University.

Scientists injected human brain cells into mouse foetuses, creating a strain of mice that were approximately 1% human. Weissman is considering a follow-up that would produce mice whose brains are 100% human.

What if the mice escaped the lab and began to proliferate? What might be the ecological consequences of mice who think like human beings, let loose in nature? Weissman says that he would keep a tight rein on the mice, and if they showed any signs of humanness he would kill them. Hardly reassuring.

Experiments like the one that produced a partially humanised mouse stretch the limits of human tinkering with nature to the realm of the pathological.

The new research field at the cutting edge of the biotech revolution is called chimeric experimentation. Researchers around the world are combining human and animal cells and creating chimeric creatures that are part-human, part-animal.

The first chimeric experiment occurred many years ago when scientists in Edinburgh fused a sheep and goat embryo - two unrelated animal species that are incapable of mating and producing a hybrid offspring. The resulting creature, called a geep, was born with the head of a goat and the body of a sheep.

Now, scientists have their sights trained on breaking the final taboo in the natural world - crossing humans and animals to create new human-animal hybrids. Already, aside from the humanised mouse, scientists have created pigs with human blood and sheep with livers and hearts that are mostly human.

The experiments are designed to advance medical research. Indeed, a growing number of genetic engineers argue that human-animal hybrids will usher in a golden era of medicine. Researchers say that the more humanised they can make research animals, the better able they will be to model the progression of human diseases, test new drugs, and harvest tissues and organs for transplantation. What they fail to mention is that there are equally promising and less invasive alternatives to these bizarre experiments, including computer modeling, in vitro tissue culture, nanotechnology, and prostheses to substitute for human tissue and organs.

Some researchers are speculating about human-chimpanzee chimeras - creating a humanzee. This would be the ideal laboratory research animal because chimpanzees are so closely related to us. Chimps share 98% of the human genome, and a fully mature chimp has the equivalent mental abilities and consciousness of a four-year-old human.

Fusing a human and chimpanzee embryo - which researchers say is feasible - could produce a creature so human that questions regarding its moral and legal status would throw 4,000 years of ethics into chaos. Would such a creature enjoy human rights? Would it have to pass some kind of "humanness" test to win its freedom? Would it be forced into doing menial labour or be used to perform dangerous activities?

The possibilities are mind-boggling. For example, what if human stem cells - the primordial cells that turn into the body's 200 or so cell types - were to be injected into an animal embryo and spread throughout the animal's body into every organ? Some human cells could migrate to the testes and ovaries where they could grow into human sperm and eggs. If two of the chimeric mice were to mate, they could potentially conceive a human embryo. If the human embryo were to be removed and implanted in a human womb, the resulting human baby's biological parents would have been mice.

Please understand that none of this is science fiction. The National Academy of Sciences, America's most august scientific body, is expected to issue guidelines for chimeric research some time next month, anticipating a flurry of new experiments in the burgeoning field of human-animal chimeric experimentation.

Bioethicists are already clearing the moral path for human-animal chimeric experiments, arguing that once society gets past the revulsion factor, the prospect of new, partially human creatures has much to offer the human race. And, of course, this is exactly the kind of reasoning that has been put forth to justify what is fast becoming a journey into a brave new world in which all of nature can be ruthlessly manipulated. But now, with human-animal chimeric experiments, we risk even undermining our own species' biological integrity in the name of human progress.

With chimeric technology, scientists have the power to rewrite the evolutionary saga - to sprinkle parts of our species into the rest of the animal kingdom as well as fuse parts of other species with our own genome and even to create new human sub-species and super-species. Are we on the cusp of a biological renaissance, or sowing the seeds of our destruction?

· Jeremy Rifkin is the author of The Biotech Century

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Mice giving birth to a human? Ipossible? Maybe not. Who knows where this science is heading. Certainly some scientists have no moral compunctions whatsoever.:Q
 

Horus

Platinum Member
Dec 27, 2003
2,838
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I'm all about the advancement of science. Considering my dad's an Engineer, and my mom's in pharmaceuticals, that's easy to know.

But there are some frontiers that are not meant to be crossed. Creating a chimera is, IMHO, THE taboo left in human society. Thou shalt not fvck with our genetic code.
 

So

Lifer
Jul 2, 2001
25,923
17
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Originally posted by: Horus
I'm all about the advancement of science. Considering my dad's an Engineer, and my mom's in pharmaceuticals, that's easy to know.

But there are some frontiers that are not meant to be crossed. Creating a chimera is, IMHO, THE taboo left in human society. Thou shalt not fvck with our genetic code.

I really see no problem, except that people are scared. I mean, give human brain cells to a mouse, and it will still have a mouse sized brain. We're not talking BAM -- and you've got Ralph, the motorcycle mouse.
 
Dec 28, 2001
11,391
3
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Originally posted by: Horus
I'm all about the advancement of science. Considering my dad's an Engineer, and my mom's in pharmaceuticals, that's easy to know.

But there are some frontiers that are not meant to be crossed. Creating a chimera is, IMHO, THE taboo left in human society. Thou shalt not fvck with our genetic code.

Cloning is more taboo than chimeras, IMO.
 

So

Lifer
Jul 2, 2001
25,923
17
81
Originally posted by: Jehovah
Originally posted by: Horus
I'm all about the advancement of science. Considering my dad's an Engineer, and my mom's in pharmaceuticals, that's easy to know.

But there are some frontiers that are not meant to be crossed. Creating a chimera is, IMHO, THE taboo left in human society. Thou shalt not fvck with our genetic code.

Cloning is more taboo than chimeras, IMO.

Again, why? As long as we treat clones like individuals (i.e, don't take some guy, clone him, and at age 21 harvest his organs) -- they will not have the memory of their ancestor, so...who cares? It'd be like having a younger identical twin.
 

jagec

Lifer
Apr 30, 2004
24,442
6
81
What was that quote from the previous thread about chimeras?

"We would be fools to forgo any scientific research which could bring us the Thundercats"
 

t3hmuffinman

Senior member
Sep 10, 2004
536
0
0
Originally posted by: Horus
I'm all about the advancement of science. Considering my dad's an Engineer, and my mom's in pharmaceuticals, that's easy to know.

But there are some frontiers that are not meant to be crossed. Creating a chimera is, IMHO, THE taboo left in human society. Thou shalt not fvck with our genetic code.

I agree 100% with you. I think cloning (within boundaries) and stem cell research will greatly advance mankind, but this is a bit too much.

Also: did anyone else think immediately of Fullmetal Alchemist when they saw "chimera"?
 

bigalt

Golden Member
Oct 12, 2000
1,525
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I had this luddite professor back in college who patented a bunch of chimera breeds, I wonder if he's finally going to collect some royalties!
 

Wadded Beef

Banned
Dec 15, 2004
1,482
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Originally posted by: r6ashih
ralph the motorcycle mouse... where is that from!??

i vaguely remember, it was this show from the 80's where a mouse rode a little motorcycle around the house with a cut out ping pong ball for a helmet. then he almost got sucked up by a vacuum cleaner. oh noes!!
 

silverpig

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
27,703
12
81
Originally posted by: So
Originally posted by: Jehovah
Originally posted by: Horus
I'm all about the advancement of science. Considering my dad's an Engineer, and my mom's in pharmaceuticals, that's easy to know.

But there are some frontiers that are not meant to be crossed. Creating a chimera is, IMHO, THE taboo left in human society. Thou shalt not fvck with our genetic code.

Cloning is more taboo than chimeras, IMO.

Again, why? As long as we treat clones like individuals (i.e, don't take some guy, clone him, and at age 21 harvest his organs) -- they will not have the memory of their ancestor, so...who cares? It'd be like having a younger identical twin.

Exactly. Identical twins are really just natural clones.

What would you get if you crossed a teenager with a ninja with a turtle?

Oh, and they can finally make muppets. 1/2 puppet, 1/2 mop.
 

t3hmuffinman

Senior member
Sep 10, 2004
536
0
0
Originally posted by: Wadded Beef
Originally posted by: r6ashih
ralph the motorcycle mouse... where is that from!??

i vaguely remember, it was this show from the 80's where a mouse rode a little motorcycle around the house with a cut out ping pong ball for a helmet. then he almost got sucked up by a vacuum cleaner. oh noes!!

I know for sure that there were 3 books about him that I read during the 90's (elementary school days)
 

SportSC4

Golden Member
Aug 29, 2002
1,152
0
0
and?
where do you think they do immune research? on mice with a mouse immune system? their immune systems are genetically altered to be more human in some respect. we've had bacteria spewing out human growth hormone for years now. all these people dying of heart disease are clamoring for the day when pig hearts express the patient's own Class I HLA so that organ rejection doesn't occur.

now the whole "geep" thing is pretty weird... i'm guessing they did some type of hybridization with ethylene glycol on a couple eggs.

sorry if i seem a little scattered... had a few drinks tonight
 
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