Vick indicted

[Turin39789]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
Animal shelters have also been reporting a large amount of donations of his jersy.

We can always use more rags.

 

[paulxcook]

Originally posted by: moshquerade
site must be getting hammered

It loads pretty fast for me...

 

[paulxcook]

Text

No article, but the picture says it all.

 

[Deeko]

*yawn* saw it coming before I clicked on it

 

[Aharami]

hah

 

[KLin]

The Onion rocks. :laugh:

 

[silverpig]

I have my halloween costume for this year

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Where I live deer overpopulation is a huge problem. Why? Well humans don't like having other dangerous predators living near them so they tend to simply kill them off and then there isn't much need to worry about them anymore if they're all dead. Like most of eastern America, this was done starting with the first colonists. None left aside from the randomly scattered and relatively harmless, mostly scavenging black bear there is nothing left as far as apex predators go - except for humans.

That is why we're actually encouraged to hunt deer in our area (bow hunting for obvious reasons), otherwise they get all over the place, such as ground to bits and pieces all over our cars and streets. Heck, I remember several years ago when a deer actually smashed through a furniture store window after crossing a street fleeing from traffic. It bled to death all over a bunch of this expensive furniture causing major problems for the store.

But I guess we should stop hunting them so that they truly expand to a population where they encounter another problem - overgrazing... Hmm a bunch of deer starving to death would be a good thing to you I guess?

 

[multiband8303]

I could see it now...

RUDOPLH VS BLITZEN IN A NO HOLD BARRED EVENT OF THE CENTURY!!!!!!!!

 

[sao123]

Originally posted by: hans007
i suppose i was just thinking about the whole wtf ness of it all.

i mean , shouldnt we outlaw hunting? i have never hunted ever, but i dont really understand how its ok if dog fighting is illegal.

like its varying levels of 'bad' really. people seem like they are shocked, when really they shouldnt be. sure vick did a bad and horrible thing, but its like... just the next step past hunting. or dog racing, or boxing or mixed martial arts. its not like you couldnt see what the next step in the progression was. people are entertained by ... using animals to entertain and watching things beat the crap out of each other.

then again i also dont own a dog so i suppose i dont get the sentiment as much as someone who has a dog.

anyone who thinks we should outlaw hunting...does not know why we hunt...
It isnt for fun, sport, trophy, or food. Those are all side benefits...for most people.
The officially sanctioned reason for hunting is herd management, or population control.
If there are too many deer... there is not enough food, habital land, etc...
which leads to...
property destruction, forest destruction, eventually a large die-off due to disease & famine...


Would you rather a hunter shoot a deer in the woods? Or hit one with your car?
Would you rather a hunter shoot a deer in the woods? Or eat all the farmers crops?
Would you rather a hunter shoot a deer in the woods? Or have no woods, because the deer ate all the green vegetation?

This same principle is true of nearly all big game species which we hunt...

 

[Casawi]

I don't think anyone ever should go to jail for a dog. America is full of insanity, we forget that we live a sophisticated jungle ..lol

I never really thought you can go to jail for killing a dog ... now I know.

So what is illegal about it, the killing or the gambling? or the moral concept ???

 

[Casawi]

And who wrote this law ?

 

[WisMan]

Originally posted by: AMCRambler

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Deeko
People will hypocritically try to tell you why you're wrong, but the real reason is in America people hold dogs to be little humans, whether that's right or not is up to you.

You're wrong. Cockfighting is illegal too (except in Louisiana and maybe one other state?) Animal cruelty laws don't just apply to cute animals. If you don't understand the difference between killing an animal as quickly as possible and putting two animals in a ring and forcing them to fight, then I can't help you.

Hunters do not kill an animal as quickly as possible. If this was true then hunters would be required by law to use the most efficient weapons for killing a deer. Instead they hunt with compound bows and shotguns many times. I've even heard that people hunt deer with pistols. A rifle with a scope is a much more efficient way to kill a deer due to it's accuracy. Compound bows while pretty accurate fire a much larger projectile that will be susceptible to wind and the chance of missing the kill shot goes up. Shotguns doubly so using slugs.

Inside 100 yards a shotgun with a slug is every bit as effective as any rifle.

Edit: Alot of places (In wisconsin atleast) they require you to use a shotgun over rifles during the gun season.

 

[mwmorph]

Originally posted by: torpid
Here's another thought that only a genius like myself and the OP could ponder... why is it legal for people to promote and stage boxing but not to promote and stage dog fights? It seems ridiculous. I mean Emanuel Stewart is no better than Mike Vick. Both trained animals to fight other animals. Yeah, so we don't electrocute boxers, we just leave them crippled with pugilistic parkinson's. We are such hypocrites.

Also, why do we allow sperm to fight each other for which one gets to fertilize the egg? It seems like we should be concerned for the other sperm.

Uh, because we choose to fight and we enjoy the sport. No one is forcing me to box and no one will kill me for losing a match. Also boxing is much less dangerous than most people think. If you really want to go after a sport, go for Horse racing, boxing has a fatality rate lower than college football.[http://www.usaboxing.org/100.htm]

How does amateur boxing safety rank with other contact sports?
Amateur boxing ranks as the safest sport among contact sports such as football and wrestling and among other events such as equestrian events and motorcyle racing.

Jesus christ, where do people get the idea Boxing is a blood sport?

 

[AMCRambler]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Deeko
People will hypocritically try to tell you why you're wrong, but the real reason is in America people hold dogs to be little humans, whether that's right or not is up to you.

You're wrong. Cockfighting is illegal too (except in Louisiana and maybe one other state?) Animal cruelty laws don't just apply to cute animals. If you don't understand the difference between killing an animal as quickly as possible and putting two animals in a ring and forcing them to fight, then I can't help you.

Hunters do not kill an animal as quickly as possible. If this was true then hunters would be required by law to use the most efficient weapons for killing a deer. Instead they hunt with compound bows and shotguns many times. I've even heard that people hunt deer with pistols. A rifle with a scope is a much more efficient way to kill a deer due to it's accuracy. Compound bows while pretty accurate fire a much larger projectile that will be susceptible to wind and the chance of missing the kill shot goes up. Shotguns doubly so using slugs.

 

[Phoenix15]

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: Phoenix15
Here's a random thought: What about the miners that you hear about every so often that are buried alive? Same basic comcept: they are trained and paid to do a dangerous job and sometimes they are injured or even killed doing it.

Obviously they failed at their job. We should electrocute them.

I was simply pointing out that what humans do, they choose to do. They know the consequences for there actions, while animals that are forced have no choice.

 

[Mr Pickles]

Originally posted by: RyanW2050
There's also the Quality of Life to look at. If you shoot a deer it spends maybe 3 minutes dying, whereas these dogs were likely kept in terrible conditions their entire lives.

You have a valid point but check your facts. If a deer is shot it does not fall immediately. Half of the excitement of deer hunting is tracking it afterwards. The shot itself is intended to hit sections of the deer that will cause him to die as fast as possible, but that accuracy relies on the shooter. If he misses that critical area the deer can run for miles bleeding out and leaving a trail that the hunter will have to follow for hours. Sometimes the deer might never be found, leaving it to eventually die without the hunter ever finding his kill.

As for Vick he needs to get off my SportsCenter and get on CourtTV. Regarding his gambling, as a athelete in a professional league such gambling is against the rules of the league and because of the extent of his gambling he should be barred from playing in the NFL ever again. And as for the dogs...

No one cares about the dogs. They only care about Vick's incident with the dogs. Have you seen stats yet? Have you turned on the TV and seen how much estimated dog fighting goes on in the US? In the South? In the World? Dog fighting is big but for some reason this case that Vick has is bigger. No one will contribute to the fight against dog fighting. No one will care when this fades away.

The soccer moms turned puppy advocates with pickets and signs behind the ropes surrounding the courthouse enterance won't contribute one dollar to stop dog fighting in America. But they'd cash in their 401k and their kid's college fund to watch Vick go down.

Race? That's the stupidest argument I've ever heard. If Favre did the same thing he'd be in the same boat.

And where's Barry Bonds? WTF HAPPENED TO THE STORY ABOUT BARRY BONDS! HE'S GOING TO SLIDE GUYS! HE'S GOING TO HIT CRAZY HOMERS AND BREAK RECORDS JUICING AND HE'S GOING TO SLIDE BY BECAUSE WE ARE ALL WATCHING VICK. That alsmot wasn't caps worthy, I could care less about that too. In fact if they would both just stay off my SportsCenter and let me watch sports instead of Drama and CourtTV then I'd be solid.

\rant

 

[piasabird]

I dont see much difference between say boxing and dog fighting. In boxing people try to knock each other senseless. It is about the same thing. There is even full contact fighting now in some states. Pretty soon we will just start training gladiators to feed into our blood lust. Well Maybe not.

Football is the same thing. The idea in football is to injure players on the other team so you can win the game. Be honest, if you can injure their quarterback or their running backs or their tight ends, then the game is easier to win.

If Vic had only been fighting the dogs and not brutally killing them himself maybe he would get more sympathy.

 

[slsmnaz]

Originally posted by: piasabird
I dont see much difference between say boxing and dog fighting. In boxing people try to knock each other senseless. It is about the same thing. There is even full contact fighting now in some states. Pretty soon we will just start training gladiators to feed into our blood lust. Well Maybe not.

Football is the same thing. The idea in football is to injure players on the other team so you can win the game. Be honest, if you can injure their quarterback or their running backs or their tight ends, then the game is easier to win.

If Vic had only been fighting the dogs and not brutally killing them himself maybe he would get more sympathy.

How do you miss the point of sports so badly? The point is to injure people?

You can only compare dog fighting to boxing when 1 of the fighters is forced into the ring with both hands tied behind his back and killed if he loses.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: digiram
What about dog racing or even horse racing?? There's the possibility of injury ocurring from these events, and do these animals have a choice in what they are doing???

Dog racing often has a rotten underbelly too. Greyhounds are quite frequently slaughtered when they can no longer race. There are entire organizations devoted to rescuing them. Fortunately, unlike a fighting dog, they make really good pets. With dogs bred for fighting, the only possible outcome for the dog is tragic.

 

[slsmnaz]

Originally posted by: MrLee

Originally posted by: RyanW2050
There's also the Quality of Life to look at. If you shoot a deer it spends maybe 3 minutes dying, whereas these dogs were likely kept in terrible conditions their entire lives.

You have a valid point but check your facts. If a deer is shot it does not fall immediately. Half of the excitement of deer hunting is tracking it afterwards. The shot itself is intended to hit sections of the deer that will cause him to die as fast as possible, but that accuracy relies on the shooter. If he misses that critical area the deer can run for miles bleeding out and leaving a trail that the hunter will have to follow for hours. Sometimes the deer might never be found, leaving it to eventually die without the hunter ever finding his kill.

You are so far off that I don't know where to start. A good shot will cause a deer to fall in its tracks. Most do fall immediately if the hunter has practiced at all. There is no "excitement" in tracking a deer. I have never had a deer run more than 50 yds and have only helped a friend track once and that was in deep brush. If you can't hit where you're aiming then you shouldn't be in the woods. No one in our group of hunters has ever lost a deer. Quit talking about things you don't understand.

 

[slsmnaz]

Originally posted by: AMCRambler

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Deeko
People will hypocritically try to tell you why you're wrong, but the real reason is in America people hold dogs to be little humans, whether that's right or not is up to you.

You're wrong. Cockfighting is illegal too (except in Louisiana and maybe one other state?) Animal cruelty laws don't just apply to cute animals. If you don't understand the difference between killing an animal as quickly as possible and putting two animals in a ring and forcing them to fight, then I can't help you.

Hunters do not kill an animal as quickly as possible. If this was true then hunters would be required by law to use the most efficient weapons for killing a deer. Instead they hunt with compound bows and shotguns many times. I've even heard that people hunt deer with pistols. A rifle with a scope is a much more efficient way to kill a deer due to it's accuracy. Compound bows while pretty accurate fire a much larger projectile that will be susceptible to wind and the chance of missing the kill shot goes up. Shotguns doubly so using slugs.

Where do you get this information? The goal of every shot a hunter takes is to kill the animal as quickly as possible, period. With any skill a bow/shotgun/pistol is just as lethal. A rifle is only more effecive based on the skill of the shooter.

Is your last sentence really saying that a slug is less accurate than an arrow?

 

[Phoenix15]

Originally posted by: hans007


so dog fighting is bad and definitely illegal.

deer hunting is generally acceptable (though i dont think i'd ever do it) , and legal and people do it.


so.... if i started a deer fighting ring of trained fighting deer would that be bad?

i mean being killed by another deer probably isnt much different than just getting shot and slowly bleeding to death right?

Have you ever hunted? Fired a gun for that matter? That is one of the DUMBEST connections I have ever seen made; and on ATOT that is saying a lot.

Hunters hunt for different reasons (sport, food, trophies, etc..) but they all serve a natural order. Animals are kept in check by predators. We are predators. PERIOD. We have done this for thousands of years. Look at our teeth for crying out loud! That being said, there is nothing natural about what that POS Vick did. Destructive and violent behavior like that has no place in a civilized world. Forcing animals to fight by torturing has NOTHING to do with hunting an animal.

As to you "slowly bleeding to death" comment I've never seen a hunter try to do anything but drop a animal outright. Sure, mistakes happen but they are rare and any hunter knows that if you don't have a good shot, you don't take it. Laws are set up to make sure we don't over hunt and in my area they are STRICTLY enforced.

 

[Gneisenau]

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: hans007
i suppose i was just thinking about the whole wtf ness of it all.

i mean , shouldnt we outlaw hunting? i have never hunted ever, but i dont really understand how its ok if dog fighting is illegal.

like its varying levels of 'bad' really. people seem like they are shocked, when really they shouldnt be. sure vick did a bad and horrible thing, but its like... just the next step past hunting. or dog racing, or boxing or mixed martial arts. its not like you couldnt see what the next step in the progression was. people are entertained by ... using animals to entertain and watching things beat the crap out of each other.

then again i also dont own a dog so i suppose i dont get the sentiment as much as someone who has a dog.

anyone who thinks we should outlaw hunting...does not know why we hunt...
It isnt for fun, sport, trophy, or food. Those are all side benefits...for most people.
The officially sanctioned reason for hunting is herd management, or population control.
If there are too many deer... there is not enough food, habital land, etc...
which leads to...
property destruction, forest destruction, eventually a large die-off due to disease & famine...


Would you rather a hunter shoot a deer in the woods? Or hit one with your car?
Would you rather a hunter shoot a deer in the woods? Or eat all the farmers crops?
Would you rather a hunter shoot a deer in the woods? Or have no woods, because the deer ate all the green vegetation?

This same principle is true of nearly all big game species which we hunt...

I agree here. The main point is hunting serves a purpose other than for our own amusement.

We don't try to make it a agonizing death. When I hunted as a kid, we didn't like to chase out after the animal. If my shot didn't drop the animal within a few sec, I got holy hell from my dad. Wounding an animal was unconscionable.

 

[slsmnaz]

Originally posted by: hans007


so dog fighting is bad and definitely illegal.

deer hunting is generally acceptable (though i dont think i'd ever do it) , and legal and people do it.


so.... if i started a deer fighting ring of trained fighting deer would that be bad?

i mean being killed by another deer probably isnt much different than just getting shot and slowly bleeding to death right?

I would feel the exact same about your "deer fighting ring" if you were torturing the animals for sport. To equal what Vick did you would have to cut off their antlers and tie their feet to the ground. Then, if they didn't perform, you would have to drown the deer in a barrel.

Now please tell me again how hunting and dog fighting are similar. :roll: