Vick indicted

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: waggy
ulp nope. heh just said since he is suspended they don't have to pay him.

Yes, but Falcons already paid him $22 million up front.

Bet they won't see a penny back.

They'll get some back. The question is, how much (or how little). Mortenson said that the Falcon's likely won't see more than $5mil.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Originally posted by: senseamp
Stupid is what you are stuck on.
I am saying that things that happens in black communities is either criminalized or treated harsher than similar activity that happens in white communities. Noone ever puts people in jail for hunting animals for entertainment. That's cruel too, to take an animal's life for your own entertainment. But fighting dogs for entertainment is all of the sudden a big crime to be stamped out by the federal government, and it just so happens that it's popular in African American communities. Typical double standard. Remember crack vs powder cocaine in the 80s. Same stuff, much harsher penalties for the one popular in African American communities. Of course you think these things only happen by coincidence.

Complete, unadulterated nonsense here.

Where to start refuting this stupidity......ok, Crack vs. Cocaine....you SERIOUSLY are saying there's no difference? Wrong. Stupid to say otherwise.

Dogfighting vs. Hunting.....you are SERIOUSLY saying that the torture and mistreatment of dogs, before any actual fights even take place, is the same as killing a deer with either an arrow or a bullet? Wrong. Stupid to say otherwise.

Blacks are treated harsher? You are SERIOUSLY saying that if the NFL QB that was involved in this was Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, or even Ben Worthlessberger the outrage would be any different? Wrong, and as always, stupid to say otherwise.

The only difference I can foresee is if Tom Brady was in Vick's place, there would be none, as in ZERO other players or celebrities anywhere defending him.

I have known people who attended dogfights in my life. Not blacks. Whites. There are plenty of them. And in every single case, they were/are lowlife, loser-ass, white trash ingrates.

I suggest that Vick, his friends, and whomever supports them are exactly the same, other than the "white trash" part.
Only difference is, Vick can run really fast, and makes lots of money as a result.

THAT, and ONLY that, is why this case is getting a lot of attention.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: hans007
i mean being killed by another deer probably isnt much different than just getting shot and slowly bleeding to death right?

The object of hunting is to kill the animal as fast as possible.

Originally posted by: RyanW2050
If you shoot a deer it spends maybe 3 minutes dying, whereas these dogs were likely kept in terrible conditions their entire lives.

3 minutes? The time is generally measured in seconds. 100 yards through the brush for a deer is seconds. Someone mentioned tracking - tracking a deer 100 yards through the brush can take minutes, or it can take hours.

Originally posted by: AMCRambler
Hunters do not kill an animal as quickly as possible. If this was true then hunters would be required by law to use the most efficient weapons for killing a deer. Instead they hunt with compound bows and shotguns many times. I've even heard that people hunt deer with pistols. A rifle with a scope is a much more efficient way to kill a deer due to it's accuracy. Compound bows while pretty accurate fire a much larger projectile that will be susceptible to wind and the chance of missing the kill shot goes up. Shotguns doubly so using slugs.

A scoped rifle merely increases the range from which a hunter can kill an animal. A compound bow isn't going to be able to shoot a deer 250 yards away and kill it. However, within the ranges for which each is used, all are very lethal. In fact, it can probably be argued that an arrow is more lethal. Given your last sentence, I'm guessing you don't have any first hand experience with hunting implements. For your information, bows (and slugs) are just as accurate as rifles within the ranges they're used. There's an added element of safety because neither has the range of a bullet, thus they hit the ground sooner, rather than traveling for miles. All three will pass through an animal. Yes, an arrow goes in one side, and generally out the other unless it strikes a major bone, despite what you see on the westerns where the arrow barely penetrates a man's chest. As far as their accuracy being affected by wind, no, not enough to matter, unless you're talking about very high winds. here are some pictures of broadheads used in hunting. Broadheads are razor sharp - in fact, mine are sharper than the razors I shave with. However, you are correct, hunters ARE required by law to use the most efficient weapons for killing a deer. Thus, there are legal requirements for the types of broadheads that can be used, as well as minimum sizes for bullets and slugs, etc. Weapons that can't efficiently take down deer are generally prohibited from that use.

 

[SSSnail]

I once flushed a beta fish because it lost in a fight. Lynch me.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: SSSnail
I once flushed a beta fish because it lost in a fight. Lynch me.

/me gets the rope..

 

[fallenangel99]

There is no federal law regarding the humane treatment of chickens.. why? The chicken I had today was from a chicken that probably had its head cut off while it was alive.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: fallenangel99
There is no federal law regarding the humane treatment of chickens.. why? The chicken I had today was from a chicken that probably had its head cut off while it was alive.

Why do people want to keep bringing up that sorry argument?

Pigs, cows, chickens, have been domesticated by us for FOOD. Dogs have been domesticated for the purpose of being man's best friend, as pets, as watch dogs, as seeing eye dogs. Can you see the difference?

And before you say that dog is on the menu in other countries, most likely those countries that treat dogs as food don't have the laws we do governing them either. It's not the same there as here.

Dog fighting shouldn't be compared to killing a domesticated animal for meat products.

You can compare dog fighting to cock fighting. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't both illegal in this country?

 

[fallenangel99]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: fallenangel99
There is no federal law regarding the humane treatment of chickens.. why? The chicken I had today was from a chicken that probably had its head cut off while it was alive.

Why do people want to keep bringing up that sorry argument?

Pigs, cows, chickens, have been domesticated by us for FOOD. Dogs have been domesticated for the purpose of being man's best friend, as pets, as watch dogs, as seeing eye dogs. Can you see the difference?

And before you say that dog is on the menu in other countries, most likely those countries that treat dogs as food don't have the laws we do governing them either. It's not the same there as here.

Dog fighting shouldn't be compared to killing a domesticated animal for meat products.

You can compare dog fighting to cock fighting. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't both illegal in this country?

Who said it was an argument? I just wanted to say it. I wasn't defending Vick nor did I attempt to defend him by saying that statement.

On that note, you wouldn't care whether the chicken you eat (if you eat chicken) came from a chicken that was humanely treated?

2 things here - dog fighting and killing of dogs inhumanely.

I think people would have a different (less subdued/ less media attention) if Vick was found to be in charge of a cat-fighting or killer rabbit operation.

 

[josh0099]

Originally posted by: fallenangel99

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: fallenangel99
There is no federal law regarding the humane treatment of chickens.. why? The chicken I had today was from a chicken that probably had its head cut off while it was alive.

Why do people want to keep bringing up that sorry argument?

Pigs, cows, chickens, have been domesticated by us for FOOD. Dogs have been domesticated for the purpose of being man's best friend, as pets, as watch dogs, as seeing eye dogs. Can you see the difference?

And before you say that dog is on the menu in other countries, most likely those countries that treat dogs as food don't have the laws we do governing them either. It's not the same there as here.

Dog fighting shouldn't be compared to killing a domesticated animal for meat products.

You can compare dog fighting to cock fighting. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't both illegal in this country?

I think people would have a different (less subdued/ less media attention) if Vick was found to be in charge of a cat-fighting or killer rabbit operation.

I really don't think it matters what animals he was abusing with the position Vick is in he can't abuse animals period. That is why it has reach the media attention it has, look at the Paris Hilton it was prime time news over her violating probation. Once you hit a certain level of fame you can't f**k up period. Just add to the fact he is abusing animals which is a no no in anyway you look at it. I really can't see why anyone has even attempted to justify his actions.

 

[SSSnail]

Wait, isn't federal supersede states??? So if he's charged with one thing federally, can the states charge him again? IANAL, so I'm just asking questions.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: SSSnail
Wait, isn't federal supersede states??? So if he's charged with one thing federally, can the states charge him again? IANAL, so I'm just asking questions.

yes, but not for the same thing. feds are charging him with crossing state lines for certain things. according to what i have heard, there are a few things the state of virginia could charge him with.

 

[KLin]

Originally posted by: SSSnail
Wait, isn't federal supersede states??? So if he's charged with one thing federally, can the states charge him again? IANAL, so I'm just asking questions.

He plead guilty to federal conspiracy charges. The state of virginia has laws against dogfighting and animal cruelty.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories...line/main3192285.shtml

So technically he would be charged with different felonies compared to the federal charge.

 

[chuckywang]

Just saw the interview on ESPN.com.

I found it funny how he always referred to himself in the third person. Not too smart. Kobe's rape apology was better.

 

[MichaelD]

10 years ago my brother bought a pit bull puppy and raised it with love. Sure; he played rough with it. "Throwing the dog around" takes on a different meaning when said dog can dislocate your shoulder without trying.

3 years later, the dog was one of the biggest pits I've ever seen. 90-something pounds, IIRC. Solid as a rock. Head the size of a bowling ball. :Q

Said dog was the sweetest thing ever. It would lick you to death. Sure; if you were playing tug of war with it's favorite rope toy (you could tie a battleship with this rope) you could get accidentally bitten. I did, and I asked for it by rough housing with the dog. But it let go and didn't rip my arm off.

7 years ago, my brother got married. Since then, he's had FIVE (5) children. The pit has been in the house the entire time. I have watched 4 different 2 year olds jump on the dogs head, poke it in the eyes, yank on it's ears. The poor dogs howls in pain and runs away. It's never so much as nipped one of the kids.

IN FACT, said pit will sit in the unfenced front yard and WATCH the kids. Said pit makes a hell of a racket should any of the kids get anywhere near the street OR if ANYONE comes near the house. My brother (who is a cop, BTW) will let the dog watch his kids while he's inside watching TV. Having this dog bark at you (and bear its' teeth) will make a grown man soil his shorts.

I will admit that the dog HAS had a go at another dog (I think it was a Rot) that had escaped it's owner and wandered into the neighborhood. Luckily, my brother got them separated with no major damage to either dog. But for the most part, the pit is well-tempered and wont' chase other dogs. Especially if the kids are outside.

Sorry for the epic discourse; I just wanted to say that it's not the BREED. It's the breeding and the upbringing that determines a dog's behavior.

Oh, and Michael Vick is a POS. I'm SO GLAD he got burned. He won't do more than a year in jail, but his career is over. The Message to pro athletes has begun. Next Up: Roid Ragers And The People Who Cover For Them.

 

[skywhr]

Sound familiar? DMX house raided, found drugs and dead dogs...

12 Neglected Dogs Seized; Others Found Buried. Guns and Drug Paraphernalia also seized in the raid on DMX's home.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: skywhr
Sound familiar? DMX house raided, found drugs and dead dogs...

12 Neglected Dogs Seized; Others Found Buried. Guns and Drug Paraphernalia also seized in the raid on DMX's home.

that sounds more like a care taker not doing the job. Reports has DMX not even being at the house for something like 2-3 months. he was paying someone to take care of them.

 

[TheNinja]

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: waggy
ulp nope. heh just said since he is suspended they don't have to pay him.

Yes, but Falcons already paid him $22 million up front.

Bet they won't see a penny back.

They'll get some back. The question is, how much (or how little). Mortenson said that the Falcon's likely won't see more than $5mil.

I was reading Peter King's MMQB and he claims that because of the way Vick's contract is worded, his $22 million bonuses were "roster bonuses" for certain years. Since he was in fact on the roster for the past couple of years, they really can't go after it like they could if it was some sort of prorated signing bonus. He says he'll have to pay back around $3-$4million.

I saw another column that put it nicely when it added up money lost and sponsers lost and said it was about a $143 million mistake.....ouch.

 

[Barfo]

Originally posted by: MichaelD
10 years ago my brother bought a pit bull puppy and raised it with love. Sure; he played rough with it. "Throwing the dog around" takes on a different meaning when said dog can dislocate your shoulder without trying.

3 years later, the dog was one of the biggest pits I've ever seen. 90-something pounds, IIRC. Solid as a rock. Head the size of a bowling ball. :Q

Said dog was the sweetest thing ever. It would lick you to death. Sure; if you were playing tug of war with it's favorite rope toy (you could tie a battleship with this rope) you could get accidentally bitten. I did, and I asked for it by rough housing with the dog. But it let go and didn't rip my arm off.

7 years ago, my brother got married. Since then, he's had FIVE (5) children. The pit has been in the house the entire time. I have watched 4 different 2 year olds jump on the dogs head, poke it in the eyes, yank on it's ears. The poor dogs howls in pain and runs away. It's never so much as nipped one of the kids.

IN FACT, said pit will sit in the unfenced front yard and WATCH the kids. Said pit makes a hell of a racket should any of the kids get anywhere near the street OR if ANYONE comes near the house. My brother (who is a cop, BTW) will let the dog watch his kids while he's inside watching TV. Having this dog bark at you (and bear its' teeth) will make a grown man soil his shorts.

I will admit that the dog HAS had a go at another dog (I think it was a Rot) that had escaped it's owner and wandered into the neighborhood. Luckily, my brother got them separated with no major damage to either dog. But for the most part, the pit is well-tempered and wont' chase other dogs. Especially if the kids are outside.

Sorry for the epic discourse; I just wanted to say that it's not the BREED. It's the breeding and the upbringing that determines a dog's behavior.

Oh, and Michael Vick is a POS. I'm SO GLAD he got burned. He won't do more than a year in jail, but his career is over. The Message to pro athletes has begun. Next Up: Roid Ragers And The People Who Cover For Them.

Oh so just because you know a tame pitbull then all pitbulls are naturally tame and it's the owner's fault when they attack someone.

I'm sure there are plenty of improperly raised collies, yet I haven't seen any reports of Lassie killing a little boy in the news, strange huh?

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: skywhr
Sound familiar? DMX house raided, found drugs and dead dogs...

12 Neglected Dogs Seized; Others Found Buried. Guns and Drug Paraphernalia also seized in the raid on DMX's home.

that sounds more like a care taker not doing the job. Reports has DMX not even being at the house for something like 2-3 months. he was paying someone to take care of them.

If you seriously don't believe that this guy doesn't raise dogs to fight then I have a bridge for sale. Dog fighting along with the money, the drugs, and guns involved are a big thing in inner city ghetto culture.

As for the the events themselves they are events run mostly by ex-felons most of whom are gang members or organize crime types. There is a very good reason why they are banned in the US period as often the large sums of money and/or drugs used as barter, guns used to protect the cash/dope illegally gambled there, and drugs consumed by some people involved while they watch the fights are just preludes to further crime and/or violence down the road that follow these events.

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: waggy
ulp nope. heh just said since he is suspended they don't have to pay him.

They'll wait until they see how the gambling charges pan out. Trust me if he is found to of gambled in these dog fighting events he'll be dropped like a hot potato.

Gambling in any major money making professional sport = Instant ban.

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: Darkstar757

Originally posted by: Agentbolt

if the NFL supends him for this then THEY SHOULD BAN EVERY PLAYER CAUGHT WITH WEED

You think systematically torturing and killing dogs is the same thing as smoking pot?

YES I THINK ALL DRUGS ARE BAD. I have seen more people in my life destroyed by drugs than dog fighting.

Of course the fact that drugs and gun deals that are sometimes part of the gambling are involved in these events means nothing to you right?

In the end if it's proven he has gambled in these dog fights he'll be banned and for good reason. Gambling is not tolerated in any major sport. Players who have known gambling problems breed doubts in the mind of fans and in the end effect the bottom line and credibility of any major sport.

The dog fighting charges, gun charges, etc.... are going to effect him but the gambling charges are going to end his career for sure if proven true. In the end he has no one to blame for his stupidity and bad life choices but himself. After all he is a man and not a child. He made his decision to get involve in a criminal enterprise and now he must deal the repercussions.

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: Summitdrinker
if found guilty, why should he ever be able to play in the NFL again period.

if the NFL lets play they suck

time to start getting tuff, 10 years hard time would do him good

another NFL player that needs to go

He just proves that that some pro-athletes are really just stupid lunk heads. He fails to understand how Vick's gambling in these dog fights or any players gambling habits period can adversely effect his sport and his comfy life style.

The moment the fans start to doubt the heart of a sports leagues outcomes due to past players being involved with gambling is the moment his $$$$$$ contract ends up being effected in a negative manner. Of course he's statement sounds like nothing more then bone headed reasoning.

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: michaels
Boooooo. This is ridiculous to let this to ruin him. I say let his sorry ass serve prison time for his horrible acts but damn let the man earn his living.

He ruined himself with his stupidity.

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: skywhr
Jamie Foxx defends Vick

?It?s a cultural thing, I think,? Jamie said. ?Most brothers didn?t know that, you know. I used to see dogs fighting in the neighborhood all the time. I didn?t know that was Fed time. So, mike probably just didn?t read his handbook on what not to do as a black star.?

"I know that cruelty to animals is bad, but sometimes people shoot people and kill people and don?t get time,? Jamie continued. ?I think in this situation, he really didn?t know the extent of it, so I always give him the benefit of the doubt.?

Brothers dont know that dogfighting is illegal??
Where can I get a copy of the black stars handbook?

Jammie Fox is the same guy who defended the founder of the Crips ( who murdered a family of 3 and a store clerk ) and tried painting him as a "reformed good guy". Of course this "reformed good guy" would never ever acknowledge the innocent people he murdered when he conducted interviews from his jail cell. Jamie Foxx is a dush bag. This says a lot about those who supported Vick.

 

[ValkyrieofHouston]

That is just sick, killing those dogs the way they did. Psycologists say when you you torture or kill animals like that it leads to the next step, abuse and possible homicide to a human being. People who do this have no respect or compassion for life.

Just sadistic. I hope like hell the judge gives him the full 5 years.