Video Editing Hard Drive Question

[blum]

Hi, I am brand new to posting on the forum but have been reading it for months and all the excellent information helped me configure my new PC that I just purchased. I use my PC for two main purposes 1) Web Surfing, bill pay, etc which obviously could be done with any 'ole pc and 2) HDV video editing (Sony HDR-HC1 HDV Camcorder) which is what really taxes my system.

I have just purchased and am in the process of building my new rig. These are the specs:

New Components
CPU - C2D E6420
CPU Cooler - Scythe Ninja Rev B
MB - Gigabyte P965-DQ6 Rev 3.3
RAM - OCZ Plat Rev 2 (2x1GB) DDR2-800
Video - eVGA 8800GTS 320MB (I wanted to future proof for Vista, currently running XP Pro)
PSU - Corsair 620HX
Case - Antec P180B

Reused
HDD - 2x80GB WD Caviar SE SATAII && 2x200GB Maxtor DiamondMax10 SATAI
DVD-ROMs - Sony DVD+/-RW && HP DVD+/-RW w/ Lightscribe

The question comes down to the hard drives. I am reusing 2x200GB Maxtor Diamond Max 10 SATAI 1.5GB/s hard drives and also 2x80GB WD Caviar SE SATAII 3.0GB/s drives. I am looking to purchase a few more drives but am trying to figure out how to configure them so I know what to buy and was wondering if I could ask for some assistance.

I plan to overclock my C2D to 3.2-3.4GHZ which is why I bought higher performance components and I came up my idea for hard drive arrangement based on my current hardware.

Use 2x80GB drives in RAID0 for OS/Scratch drive (not worried about data loss, store data elsewhere/backup regularly)
Use 2x200GB drives + buy 1 or 2 more and set up RAID5 Array for storage

I have two issues with this:

1) My current 200GB drives are SATAI, if I buy 2 more SATAII 200GB drives will it hurt anything to run 2 of them at 1.5GB/s and 2 at 3.0GB/s. I realize that the real throughput of the drives is no where near the interface speed, the only big effect would be the difference in loading the cache for the different speed drives. For the HDV editing, the files are all well above the 8MBx4 cache size so once it fills up I would think it should not matter. I know the SATAII drives can also be set to run at SATAI speed by changing the jumper setting but the new drives don't have the jumpers with them and I cannot find any. Not sure about other differences such as NCQ and other SATAII enhancements.

2) Is the rendering more CPU bound than hard-drive bound? My current system is a 2.6GHZ P4 with 512MB ram so the whole system is bound, thus the reason for the upgrade. I just want to make sure I get it right this time and I want to try to avoid unassembling everything once I put it together this time. I realize in an ideal world a quad core would be better but I didn't want to drop all the extra money on one right now, maybe in the future.

Would it be better to have 3 different partions, 1 for OS/Programs, 1 for Scratch, and 1 for Storage? I plan to use RAID5 for sure on the storage drive as I do not want to lose all my data. I have no issue using RAID0 for the others because I make regular disk images and plan to save all important data to the RAID5 array. A disk failure will just be an inconvience to have to replace it and reinstall the OS/programs. With using RAID0 I just did not know if it was still advantageous to use seperate read/write drives or if I will be mostly CPU bound anyway.

If I made 3 seperate partion just curious on any suggestion with regard to reusing what I have for hard drives and I would obviously still need to buy a few more. Trying to keep the additional cost down but redundant storage is definitely key to me, losing my daighter first steps or words is something I do not want to happen. One thing I thought of was:

Partion1 - OS/Programs, use my 2x80GB WD drives in RAID0
Partion2 - Scratch drives, use my 2x200GB Maxtor drives in RAID0
Partion3 - Storage, buy 3x320GB or 500GB WD Caviar SE16 drives and run them in RAID5

But I just don't know if this will buy me much performancewise over my previous suggestion. Obviuosly it will increase the amount of storage but at a cost of 3x.

Any advice would be appreciated on the best approach and performance differences.

Thanks...
Scott

 

[Ruptga]

As far as I know, raid 0 honestly only helps with benchmarking and servers, there's no real point to putting it in a rig unless money really is no object.

 

[MichaelD]

Hi Scott and welcome to the AT Forums.

Nice rig you built there! You've got a good plan and great components; should be an easy, stable overclock. Start with 400 x 8 = 3.2GHz.

As for your HD questions. When it comes to HD performance and data integrity, what matters more than separate partitions is physically separate drives.

Sure; it's a great idea to have your OS and Programs, Scratch and Storage on separate partitions. Very good idea. For optimum performance and data integrity though, it's better to have them all on separate drives.

Scenario A. You have 3 partitions on one drive. Hard drive dies, you lose it all. OS/Progams, Raw DV you copied as well as your final project(s).

Scenario B. Three separate drives. One dies (let's say it's the OS). You still have all your data and projects on the other drives.

From the performance viewpoint, if you have your source (Raw DV) and destination ("render the project to HERE") partitions on the same drive, the system must read the data from the drive, process it and write it back to the same drive but different partitions. That's a lot of drive thrashing going on.

I've done quite a bit of experimentation on my own system and have found the best scenario for me (almost the same rig as yours, and I use Sony Vegas Movie Studio)

HD1, partition I - OS and programs
HD1, partition II - MP3s and videos
HD1, partition III - Ghost images

HD2, partition I - Raw DV

HD3, partition I - Render To/Final Videos
HD3, partition II - backup of email/my documents/mp3s

I also have an external USB HD that I back up to AND I have a few DVD-RWs that I will backup to one a month or so.

I am currently using 320GB Seagate 7200.10 drives, but with your storage needs, you could move up to 500 or 750GB drives.

I wouldn't worry about RAID...though if you really wanted to, you could run a RAID1 mirror for your final videos/projects. One drive dies, you lose nothing. Though motherboard-based RAID implementations can be dicey sometimes.

Hope this helps.

 

[IlllI]

option 3: get a huge ass external hd to backup your work? Text

and yes, rendering is more CPU bound than hard-drive bound.

 

[blum]

Thanks for the feedback everyone, looks like I may just forgo the raid effort except for perhaps the RAID5/RAID1 backup of my final work.

MichaelD, thanks for the detailed information. I was only planning to have 3 total drives (or drive clusters if using RAID) with one partition on each but perhaps I will go with more along the lines of what you put down since I also use Sony Vegas Movie Studio...

I am still debating on what extra to purchase and the external hard drive is defintely another option I will be looking into as well. I need one regardless for file/video transfer from my PC to my PS3 running Linux but that is a whole other can of worms to get into.

Thanks again for the feedback so far.

 

[MichaelD]

You're welcome. As clandren said an external HD would be great for backup. ESPECIALLY since you have E-SATA on that motherboard. E-SATA devices run at the same speed as the onboard devices. I.E. really fast.

An E-sata HD enclosure will be more expensive than a USB one, but very much worth it in the long run.

I can see by your choice of components that you believe in "you get what you pay for" so I'm sure you can see my logic.

 

[ribbon13]

Indeed, you get what you pay for.

Thats why a single RAID6 will always be my choice. The entry cost is high, but STR and I/O only scale up with cache and more drives.

And yes, omg, so very much yes, e-SATA is an external backup godsend!

 

[blum]

What I am leaning towards now is using my one of my 80 GB drives for the OS and the other for a scratch drive. I will then use the 2 200GB drives in RAID 1 for redundant document / video storage and get a couple external drives. I completely agree that you get what you pay for. I plan to get an eSATA/USB2.0 external enclosure because I will use eSATA for my PC but unfortunately my PS3 only has USB inputs so I need to have that support too. I have seen several like this so it should not be an issue. Thanks again...

 

[gsellis]

The only change I would make to your partition scenario (which is really a logical drive configuration with a single partition on each...), is to make "partition 1" Raid 1. You will have an 80GB partition with some protection. Considering you are using "reused" drives, it makes more sense.

What R0 gets you is a bigger drive. I do both SD and HD editing and just bought 3 500GBs ($510!). Space goes quick if you edit alot.

Important note - If you are using Pinnacle Studio 10/11, you may want to reconsider your video card. Look at the Pinnacle forum for any updates, but currently Avid Liquid users are having issues with the 8800. Studio 10 is built on the Liquid base.

 

[blum]

Thanks for the info. I am using Sony Vegas which from what I read on the web doesn't use GPU based acceleration, it said that the video card didn't matter for this particular software.

As far as the drive setup, did u mean to use both 80GB as a RAID 1 setup so I had redundency? One thing I should clear up s the reusing of drives. The 2x200GB hard drives I have had and been using for about 1.5 years. The 2x80GB drives are new, I bought them several months ago and they have just been sitting in a box. I should have probably put them with the new list even though I did not just get them now.

 

[bob4432]

i too would add to get as much space as possible. currrently i am still dealing w/ sd video and still use a lot of space for projects that you wold think shouldn't take that much. i would go either 3-4 500GB or even 3-4 750GB drives, or possibly wait for the 1TB drives to come out and hopefully drop the prices of the current models .

 

[MichaelD]

I wish I had bought bigger drives. 320GB sounds like a lot, but a few hours of DV later and it shrinks mighty quick. I'm paranoid about not having ALL info in at least two places. I don't overwrite any of my DV tapes (I waste a lot of tape ) so I have the original data...but it's such a PITA copying it to the HD since you have to do it in real time.

 

[idiotekniQues]

always have all your data on 2 different physical drives at a minimum.

id also use an external and keep it somewhere offsite because if two drives are in one physical location, that does you no good in case of a fire/flood/theft etc.

i have all my data on two different drives, completely different from my os drive. but im either going to hook up my old p4 rig as a file server at a friends house with high speed internet access, or get an e-sata drive and back it up once every couple of weeks and keept it at a friends place.

 

[idiotekniQues]

also, if you have the money, grab a raptor and use it solely as your scratch drive.

that gives you a pretty decent performance boost if i am not mistaken.

 

[blum]

idiotekniQues, since you have the identical system as what I am building (except the sound card), I have a question for you. I put my 4 hard drives in the bottom cage on in my P180b and when I connect the SATA cables that came with the DQ6, they are so rigid that they stick into the fan inlet that is between the hard drives and the PSU. Same thing with the PSU cables that are plugged into the drives. How do u keep them away from the fan since the cables are so rigid?

 

[idiotekniQues]

i had red sata cables from a previous mobo, maybe they are more flexible than the yellow ones that come with the dq6? there are also sata cables where one end is a right angle plug, that would be great to use on the hard drive connector. fyi be careful sliding that hard drive cage in and out, sata connectors on hard drives are so stupidly designed so weak, that anyh tension can snap that brittle plastic part off. its not antec's fault the HD speicifications for sata connectors just plain sucks.

sometimes when i fiddle around my case, a sata cable will shift down there and i can hear it in the fan, and i just have to stick my hand in and move it back and move the case back to under my desk slowly.

the hx620 power cables i just ran them right up where they are supposed to go and never had an issue. not sure why those are giving you problems.

if this case were 2" longer it would be so easy to build in.

ill take pics later and post them.

 

[Balhirath]

Originally posted by: MichaelD
I wish I had bought bigger drives. 320GB sounds like a lot, but a few hours of DV later and it shrinks mighty quick. I'm paranoid about not having ALL info in at least two places. I don't overwrite any of my DV tapes (I waste a lot of tape ) so I have the original data...but it's such a PITA copying it to the HD since you have to do it in real time.

I AGREE!! Once you have tried to lose an entire project (Happened to me more than once during the last 8 years) you tend to get paranoid about those tapes

I use a USB HD for backup, but it takes some time so I'm planning on using a eSATA when I get the new system.

 

[gsellis]

Just for the record, my old system had two raptors and the new has a Seagate 500 doing the same thing. The new one boots faster. That is also part of the processor and FSB. So, a Raptor is money spent that could have bought a 500.

 

[xfile]

Of my 4 drives, one is strictly for video capture, one to receive/store the processed video, and one for backup. I also backup to an external hard drive (typically disconnected for safety) and backup to DVD-R.