Virtual currencies recovering!

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Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
13,306
3
0
I had a lot of fun with bitcoin, got 2 new video cards and came out about $500 ahead. I also learned a good bit about finance/economics and currency speculation. I would not endorse it as a sound investment vehicle, but I think it is awesome, even in the face of people who say it is a scam (usually while demonstrating a lack of understanding of its nature or purpose).
If you wouldn't endorse it as an investment vehicle I sure as hell cannot imagine you'd endorse it as a currency, and so what would you endorse it as, if anything?

BTC crashed again today. I think it has crashed too many times to count now. Goes up, goes down massively all the time, it is just people day trading and trying to make a few bucks now for lols.
 

MaxPayne63

Senior member
Dec 19, 2011
682
0
0
CFTC is 'exploring' bitcoin regulations, according to FT. Translation: Bitcoin fought the fiat and the fiat won.
 

Juddog

Diamond Member
Dec 11, 2006
7,851
6
81
CFTC is 'exploring' bitcoin regulations, according to FT. Translation: Bitcoin fought the fiat and the fiat won.

As soon as it gets regulated expected the price to crash. The government isn't going to just sit by while a new currency forms that they can't get their grubby hands on.
 

Chiropteran

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2003
9,811
110
106
As soon as it gets regulated expected the price to crash. The government isn't going to just sit by while a new currency forms that they can't get their grubby hands on.

Define "regulated".

If you mean taxed, it already is.

If you mean requiring the exchanges to get money handling licenses, this is already the case. It's a hurdle, but it's certainly not killing bitcoin.

If you mean controlled, how could the government even begin to really control bitcoin? They can't, not anymore than they could control bit-torrent or file-sharing, or drugs. And what happened when the government started controlling drugs? Did the price of drugs crash?

Nope.

On the contrary, I think any official US government regulation of bitcoin could only be a good thing, as it gives bitcoin immediate legitimacy.
 
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Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
13,306
3
0
Oh dear.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323582904578485391717441224.html

U.S. officials dealt a blow to the fledgling digital currency called Bitcoin, freezing an account tied to the largest Bitcoin exchange just months after regulators warned such entities should follow traditional anti-money laundering rules.

I recall reading this a month back:
http://www.market-ticker.org/akcs-www?singlepost=3171400
Those who are using Bitcoin as a means to try to foil currency controls or state prohibitions on certain transactions are asking for a criminal indictment not only for the original evasion act itself but also the possibility of a money-laundering indictment on top of it, and the proof necessary to hang you in a court of law is inherently present in the design of the currency system!

Kids can get in over their heads when they play at being grown-up traders.

Don't miss what he said about capital gains in there, too. You made a profit, you gotta report it. I am betting a whoooole lot of bitcoin kiddies don't know about that, nor care about it. Doesn't make it any less illegal, and records have a tendency to hang around.
 
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Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,644
10
81
Doesn't make it any less illegal, and records have a tendency to hang around.
Like one of your articles said, the proof is in the audit trail built into the coins. The records of who bought and sold what is right there. Forever.
 

Crusty

Lifer
Sep 30, 2001
12,684
2
81
Just like any ponzi scheme rejections, these are the hates of our life.

You should really educate yourself. Bitcoins are NOT an investment.
Khan Academy links

I would suggest watching all of those videos. Then when you are done, you can watch this interview with the lead programmer of Bitcoins.

Just because your small brain doesn't understand something doesn't mean the ideas are without merit. Bitcoins are a real thing, and they aren't going away unless something drastic happens(like the Earth blowing up).

Even if the US government were to make owning, selling, and using Bitcoins illegal, that would only affect people inside the USA. Bitcoins are global and it would take a massive cooperation of worldwide governments to silence it.

The fact is that Bitcoins allow people all over the world to transact and transfer wealth amongst themselves without having to rely on any sort of central agency to provide regulation and oversight. That's how the protocol is designed, that's the whole entire point. A safe, secure, and reliable method of transferring money.

Every argument anyone brings up about Bitcoins being anonymous and therefore must be used for illicit things like money laundering or tax evasion are completely misleading. Cash can be used for all those same purposes and is just as "anonymous" as Bitcoins are.
 

Crusty

Lifer
Sep 30, 2001
12,684
2
81
Oh dear.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323582904578485391717441224.html



I recall reading this a month back:
http://www.market-ticker.org/akcs-www?singlepost=3171400


Kids can get in over their heads when they play at being grown-up traders.

Don't miss what he said about capital gains in there, too. You made a profit, you gotta report it. I am betting a whoooole lot of bitcoin kiddies don't know about that, nor care about it. Doesn't make it any less illegal, and records have a tendency to hang around.

This is a link to the warrant that was issued.

They are targeting mtgox because they operate a US subsidiary that receives money on behalf of people in the US and sends it to the mtgox Japanese company. When mtgox opened up their US bank accounts they did not register as a money service business or a money transmitter. Both of which are required by US law per the business they are doing with US citizens.

So the feds are seizing their money. That's what happens when you break the law.
 

Chiropteran

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2003
9,811
110
106
It's interesting how the US is "cracking down on bitcoin" yet the price is unchanged. Sure, it dropped a few dollars when the news broke, but it recovered quickly and it's been fluctuating same as usual since then. I honestly hope this pushes a lot of people to other exchanges, MtGox has done more harm than good and we could use a new guy.
 

SSSnail

Lifer
Nov 29, 2006
17,458
83
86
You should really educate yourself. Bitcoins are NOT an investment.
Khan Academy links

I would suggest watching all of those videos. Then when you are done, you can watch this interview with the lead programmer of Bitcoins.

Just because your small brain doesn't understand something doesn't mean the ideas are without merit. Bitcoins are a real thing, and they aren't going away unless something drastic happens(like the Earth blowing up).

Even if the US government were to make owning, selling, and using Bitcoins illegal, that would only affect people inside the USA. Bitcoins are global and it would take a massive cooperation of worldwide governments to silence it.

The fact is that Bitcoins allow people all over the world to transact and transfer wealth amongst themselves without having to rely on any sort of central agency to provide regulation and oversight. That's how the protocol is designed, that's the whole entire point. A safe, secure, and reliable method of transferring money.

Every argument anyone brings up about Bitcoins being anonymous and therefore must be used for illicit things like money laundering or tax evasion are completely misleading. Cash can be used for all those same purposes and is just as "anonymous" as Bitcoins are.
Great! You want to buy some of my sssnail coins? Even better than Bitcoin . I GUARANTEE IT!
 

Chiropteran

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2003
9,811
110
106
Great! You want to buy some of my sssnail coins? Even better than Bitcoin . I GUARANTEE IT!

It's funny because that is basically what USD is. "These new dollars are even better than the old gold-backed dollars, because we guarantee it!"

Except a guarantee by a government or an individual or a corporation is basically worthless. The difference, in the case of bitcoin, is that the properties and features of the currency is guaranteed by math and physics, and there is no risk of the creator changing his mind and printing 85 billion more bitcoin each month, because it is NOT POSSIBLE.
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
30,717
2,610
126
You should really educate yourself. Bitcoins are NOT an investment.
Khan Academy links

I would suggest watching all of those videos. Then when you are done, you can watch this interview with the lead programmer of Bitcoins.

Just because your small brain doesn't understand something doesn't mean the ideas are without merit. Bitcoins are a real thing, and they aren't going away unless something drastic happens(like the Earth blowing up).

Even if the US government were to make owning, selling, and using Bitcoins illegal, that would only affect people inside the USA. Bitcoins are global and it would take a massive cooperation of worldwide governments to silence it.

The fact is that Bitcoins allow people all over the world to transact and transfer wealth amongst themselves without having to rely on any sort of central agency to provide regulation and oversight. That's how the protocol is designed, that's the whole entire point. A safe, secure, and reliable method of transferring money.

Every argument anyone brings up about Bitcoins being anonymous and therefore must be used for illicit things like money laundering or tax evasion are completely misleading. Cash can be used for all those same purposes and is just as "anonymous" as Bitcoins are.

I agree. Bitcoin is here to stay. Unfortunately however due to a mishap on Mt. Gox's part, they were unable to confirm my account. Therefore I have yet to own Bitcoin at this time.
 

Mandres

Senior member
Jun 8, 2011
944
58
91
It's funny because that is basically what USD is. "These new dollars are even better than the old gold-backed dollars, because we guarantee it!"

Except a guarantee by a government or an individual or a corporation is basically worthless.

Are you serious? The threat of force by a government is the only guarantee that means anything in this world.

The problem with BitCoins is that there is no military power enforcing its use, so there is absolutely nothing stopping imitators. Every time a new one pops up (LiteCoins, Bitcoins++, SSSnailcoins ;-) the value and credibility of the original BitCoin project is diluted. And it will keep happening over and over because the incentive for investors is to get in on the new shit early before the mining difficulty goes up.

BitCoin is already dead as a currency. It was dead on arrival because it's open-source and easily imitated.
 
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Crusty

Lifer
Sep 30, 2001
12,684
2
81
there's also amazon gold coins now. woo

Which are nothing like Bitcoins. They are issued by a central organization(Amazon), and are only worth what Amazon tells you they are worth, i.e. what you can buy with them on Amazon.

They are essentially gift cards.
 

Chiropteran

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2003
9,811
110
106
Are you serious? The threat of force by a government is the only guarantee that means anything in this world.



That guarantee sure means a lot!

The problem with the USA's "threat of force" is that a real global war with nuclear weapons would pretty much be the end of life on earth. It's something of an empty threat, and the USA can't force people to value dollars higher, even at gunpoint- it just doesn't work. The value of the dollar is decaying because it's being inflated at the tune of 85 billion a month.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...ce-of-bond-buying-as-job-market-improves.html

You can't force people to value your money by threat of war, it doesn't really work.
 

M0oG0oGaiPan

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2000
7,858
2
0
digitalgamedeals.com
Which are nothing like Bitcoins. They are issued by a central organization(Amazon), and are only worth what Amazon tells you they are worth, i.e. what you can buy with them on Amazon.

They are essentially gift cards.

Still considered online currency. In the future you might be able to use them across the amazon sites. (woot, livingsocial, myhabit). Just speculation though. I wouldn't call them gift cards because they actually sell gift cards for their site. Right now that's basically how they function but I don't think it'll stay like that forever.

Also, I could see it as a potential payment option on Mturk. http://aws.amazon.com/mturk/
Amazon Mechanical Turk is a marketplace for work that requires human intelligence. The Mechanical Turk web service enables companies to programmatically access this marketplace and a diverse, on-demand workforce. Developers can leverage this service to build human intelligence directly into their applications.
 
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