Volari Duo CHEATING!!!!

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: batmang
heh, isnt 3dfx/s3/sis known for having really bad image quality compared to nvidia/ati? thats how they get fps, increase the pipelines, and you got more fps. and didnt nvidia do this same thing with a set of drivers before? to make their cards look faster compared to ati. in this case, its much much worse.

3dfx wasn't known for bad image quality, quite the opposite. They were slow on adopting 32bit colour.

 

[TerryMathews]

Originally posted by: sandorski
3dfx wasn't known for bad image quality, quite the opposite. They were slow on adopting 32bit colour.

You could argue that those two statements are the same. Although for at least part of the V2/V3s life, 32 bit color wasn't really feasible. Once the TNT2 rolled onto the scene, things changed a bit.

 

[VIAN]

Where are all the nvidiots who should be defending XGI.

You know those people that said they would much rather have the speed than image quality.

What speed? Do you see this thing pulling ahead of anything?

 

[MDE]

Seems that Xbit's site is down...

 

[Corporate Thug]

fatal error

MySQL: Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/tmp/mysql4.sock'

 

[BFG10K]

Well since nVidia can cheat and seemingly get away with it (amazingly there are people even to this day who claim nVidia have done nothing wrong) then I guess it's only natural that XGI decide to follow in their footsteps. Welcome, nVidia junior.

I sure bet Nvidia & ATI are shaking in there boots about now...

Ironically these cheats make nVidia look better because they're no longer the only ones taking the flak for cheating.

Where are all the nvidiots who should be defending XGI.

Specifically, I want to see if the ones who think application detection is acceptable still feel that XGI's actions are valid optimizations. After all, nVidia did exactly the same thing with U2003.exe when it was renamed to something else.

I don't see either as cheats,

:Q

Wow.

 

[InlineFive]

Don't start the cheating issues again!

Now we'll have ATI vs. nVidia vs. Volari!

-Por

 

[BFG10K]

Don't start the cheating issues again!

nVidia started it and XGI is continuing the trend.

 

[Corporate Thug]

Originally posted by: PorBleemo
Don't start the cheating issues again!

Now we'll have ATI vs. nVidia vs. Volari!

-Por

i really dont understand why people slways say dont start this cheating thing again, i personally like to know when something like this happens so i know what kinda of company i am dealing with. seeing as that i dont really visit xbitlabs site, i wouldnt know about this if it were never posted here...

 

[yak8998]

I really don't see nvidia as having 'cheated' per say, an optimization is different from something like this. Futuremark didn't lose any quality, correct? This is just rediculous tho, LOL

DISCLAIMER: I'm no fanboy, I just buy w/e is fastest. I have AMD and Intel systems, ATI and nVidia systems.

 

[BFG10K]

Futuremark didn't lose any quality, correct?

The substituted shaders did lose some IQ. And then there was the whole problem of going off the benchmark rails...

This is just rediculous tho, LOL

nVidia does exactly the same and worse.

For example, when they detected UT2003.exe they used brilinear AF but if the executable was renamed it used correct trilinear AF. Now you can't even rename the app as nVidia uses brilinear AF in all Direct3D applications.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: yak8998
I really don't see nvidia as having 'cheated' per say, an optimization is different from something like this. Futuremark didn't lose any quality, correct? This is just rediculous tho, LOL

DISCLAIMER: I'm no fanboy, I just buy w/e is fastest. I have AMD and Intel systems, ATI and nVidia systems.

FutureMark did lose quality with Nvidia's "optomizations", but not as much as XGI's "optomizations".

 

[nRollo]

nVidia does exactly the same and worse.

For example, when they detected UT2003.exe they used brilinear AF but if the executable was renamed it used correct trilinear AF. Now you can't even rename the app as nVidia uses brilinear AF in all Direct3D applications.

Err BFG, not to split hairs, but I don't think nVidia not telling us their Trilinear filtering is really a mix of tri and bilinear filtering is quite on par with XGI not doing AF or AA at all.
I don't see ATI noting in my drivers that their AF only filters half as many angles as nVidia cards?

 

[BFG10K]

Err BFG, not to split hairs, but I don't think nVidia not telling us their Trilinear filtering is really a mix of tri and bilinear filtering is quite on par with XGI not doing AF or AA at all.

Purposefully reduced IQ solely on the basis of app name or API is a cheat. You can't exclude one or the other just because one has a larger IQ impact than the other does.

I don't see ATI noting in my drivers that their AF only filters half as many angles as nVidia cards?

That's completely different as the AF method is defined at the hardware level and works off hard-coded hardware design decisions.

For example, I wouldn't class Matrox's 2x maximum AF as cheating. I'd class that as a hardware design limitation. I would class ATi's trilinear + bilinear AF mix on applications that don't request AF as cheating too since ATi should really be honouring the control panel request. However the counter-point to this is that applications who do request trilinear AF get it, unlike nVidia's who don't, so this nullifies ATi's cheat to some degree since it's valid to argue that the app isn't even requesting AF.

 

[nRollo]

Purposefully reduced IQ solely on the basis of app name or API is a cheat. You can't exclude one or the other just because one has a larger IQ impact than the other does.

I agree that nVidia's current state of AF is a cheat, although I don't know how much it matters as many say nVidia's AF is slightly better.

That's completely different as the AF method is defined at the hardware level and works off hard-coded hardware design decisions.

I suppose you have a point.

 

[nemesismk2]

Atleast S3 havn't been caught cheating like xgi, nvidia and ati yet. They don't even need to cheat with af because it's free with the deltachrome like tf was free with their earlier video cards!

 

[McArra]

Originally posted by: nemesismk2
Atleast S3 havn't been caught cheating like xgi, nvidia and ati yet. They don't even need to cheat with af because it's free with the deltachrome like tf was free with their earlier video cards!

Do you mean performance free?

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: SilentRunning
Where are all the nvidiots who should be defending XGI.

You know those people that said they would much rather have the speed than image quality.


As you sow so shall you reap.


Seems kind of a fitting phrase right now.

NVIDIAs IQ didnt reduce in the 3dmark fiasco, it was optimised occlusion culling, and a bunch of dorks arguing semantics while the scenes looked the same.

 

[McArra]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: SilentRunning
Where are all the nvidiots who should be defending XGI.

You know those people that said they would much rather have the speed than image quality.


As you sow so shall you reap.


Seems kind of a fitting phrase right now.

NVIDIAs IQ didnt reduce in the 3dmark fiasco, it was optimised occlusion culling, and a bunch of dorks arguing semantics while the scenes looked the same.

It didn't look the same but very similar. They were different shader operations which worked similar but not the same as it was intended to.

 

[Acanthus]

For example, when they detected UT2003.exe they used brilinear AF but if the executable was renamed it used correct trilinear AF. Now you can't even rename the app as nVidia uses brilinear AF in all Direct3D applications.

But yet it still somehow looks better than ATis AF .

 

[nemesismk2]

Originally posted by: McArra

Originally posted by: nemesismk2
Atleast S3 havn't been caught cheating like xgi, nvidia and ati yet. They don't even need to cheat with af because it's free with the deltachrome like tf was free with their earlier video cards!

Do you mean performance free?

How dare you say that, do I have to get out my old Savage4 to knock some sense into you?

Being serious for a second, the previews featuring the deltachrome are using old drivers so it's not fair to judge it by it's current performance. Anyway just look at how long it took nvidia to release decent drivers for their geforce fx range!

I used to own a geforce fx 5600 ultra but it's performance was poor with the early drivers, it's only recently that it's started to perform like it should.

 

[McArra]

hhehehe. I was joking, to be fair I know we have to wait till S3 is working as it should with drivers etc. But I had to say it....

 

[otispunkmeyer]

that is simply craptacular

theyre gonna lose big time..........400+ bucks for something a GF3 could probably beat hahaha they should quit now

 

[nemesismk2]

Originally posted by: McArra
hhehehe. I was joking, to be fair I know we have to wait till S3 is working as it should with drivers etc. But I had to say it....

Okay false alarm, I'll put away the Savage4!

 

[McArra]

LOL !!!!