Volvo Used Car Buying Advice

[trpvdc]

Hello,

I'm looking at a used 2001 Volvo S80 T6 Executive Sedan Twin-Turbo with 112k miles on Craigslist for $2500 -- http://stlouis.craigslist.org/cto/4720219281.html

I've only bought one car in my life and that was when I was 16. I have a total lack of knowledge regarding cars, and have relied on a couple of friends that are able to do some basic repairs up to this point. I saw a volvo post on this forum before and thought I would see what everyone thinks.

More Details
The seller started at $3500 but quickly went to $2500 saying he was moving soon. The car was his father-in-laws. Seller told me tires would need replacing, timing belt still needs to be done, tranny was dealer replaced at 90,000. He mentioned it's leaking coolant and that he tops it off every 3 weeks, says there's no sign of external leak on engine components or onto driveway.
Carfax report is full of dealer servicings -
At 33k -- front strut bearings replaced, stabilizer bar links replaced, rear shock absorbers replaced
At 46k -- oxygen sensor replaced, radiator fan replaced
At 49k -- oxygen sensor replaced, PCV system serviced
At 63k -- engine mount replaced, ball joints replaced
At 70k -- ABS computer/module replaced
At 80k -- sway bar links replaced
At 90k -- sunroof replaced/repaired, transmission replaced
Most recent safety and emissions inspections were on 9/2013 at 109k.

Haven't seen or test driven the car yet but the coolant leak and the bad reputation for multiple expensive repairs this car has make me nervous. What is your advice for this car? Thank you for the help

 

[kitatech]

In 2004 I saw a 2000 V70 wagon's repair history @ 108k miles...32 pages long!

 

[Hail The Brain Slug]

Internal coolant leak could likely mean there's a head gasket failure, which would need replacing and is generally expensive. If you go to look at it, watch the exhaust on ignition and idle, maybe have him rev it a little. If there's white smoke coming from the exhaust, it's burning coolant.

 

[jessieqwert]

don't

 

[Billb2]

Great car. My wife just sold hers with close to 200K miles.
The leak is the coolant overflow bottle. It only leaks while the engine is warming up. It will get worse.

Now, what you need to know:
Any $2500 used car is going to need repairs. Choose a car that is inexpensive to repair. I've owned 4 Volvos and they are not cheap to repair. For example the turbo exhaust manifold on that Volvo is about at the end of it's life - $1,200 - a Chevy - $100. Volvo, Mercedes, Jaguar, BMW, etc. do not make good beaters.

 

[Insomniator]

I remember S80's being one of the least reliable cars volvo ever made.

 

[JCH13]

Those look like most of the typical S80 T6 repairs (my Dad had one he ran up to around 180k).

Coolant leak sounds like something in the recovery tank or the pressure cap - generally easy to fix.

Not sure what a timing belt would run you. Ask if the turbo oil line seals have been replaced.

With luxo cars like this you'll pay or you'll pay: depreciation and car payments or repairs, take your pick. The big difference here is that you can go to Volvo dealer and pay a lot, or go to an independent mechanic and pay less. That's not a lot of miles on a Volvo, even an S80, so it has usable life left. All the big defects seem to be addressed already (ABS computer, transmission). Might be worth a pre-buy inspection at a dealer or mechanic.

As other's said: for $2500 anything is going to need money put into it. What it really comes down to is if you consider the luxury qualities to be worth the premium.

 

[Billb2]

if you consider the luxury qualities to be worth the premium.

And worth the price you'll have to pay for repairing them when the break.

GM/Ford/Honda/Toyota/Mazda, manual trans, crank windows, etc.

 

[Kaido]

I saw a volvo post on this forum before and thought I would see what everyone thinks.

That was probably me me:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2310758

I had the exact same car but in a beige color. Traded it in for a Kia Soul, but miss it a lot! In a nutshell:

1. Talk to phucheneh here, he's the man in terms of Volvo knowledge. Warning: he will tell you to run far, far away from it
2. Most comfortable seats ever
3. LOVE the power. That twin-turbo six is loads of fun!
4. Annual cost of maintenance (done right) is $3,000 (that's per year)
5. Most expensive year the previous owner had was $6,000 in maintenance bills (mostly just replacing stuff per the maintenance schedule)
6. Can work on regular or premium fuel. Regular = drives like a regular car, Premium = LOTS of guts, plenty of oomph! The extra cost was annoying ($85 per fillup from empty), but the power was sooooo worth it when you punched the gas. I averaged 20 MPG mixed city/highway, but if you're doing exclusively highway, you can get 26 MPG.
7. Surprisingly good in the snow (thanks to the weight - very heavy car). The traction control system is a bit dated, but worked decently, even with just the performance tires on it. Which, btw, were amazing - zero hydroplaning in the rain EVER.

I got rid of it because the transmission started slipping, and I also had trouble getting it into reverse sometimes. I didn't want to dump any more money into it so I traded her in for an econobox. The guy I bought it from kept meticulous records and it averaged a few grand a year in maintenance, so be warned that it is VERY expensive to maintain. I started looking at getting the transmission fixed or replaced, coupled with doing long-term maintenance, and decided to go with a cheap little Kia with a 10-year warranty instead.

My only real advice is be aware that it may be a deal up front, but the long-term maintenance costs are not small (oil changes are expensive, parts & labor is expensive, gas is expensive - even with regular fuel, you still have a 21-gallon tank!). If you can handle the maintenance costs, it is an amazing car. Roomy, comfortable, powerful, just really enjoyable. More stuff will break since it's a 13-year-old car with over 100k miles on it, so keep in mind that the costs will just keep on coming. That's not a bad thing, if you love the car & have the budget to deal with it, but don't think that you'll get the car for a song & then have a super low-maintenance machine!

Speaking of the Kia, I get 30 MPG in it (+10 over what I got in the Volvo), it only costs me $45 to fill up (a $40 weekly savings over the Volvo), lots of nice new features (Bluetooth etc.), pretty much zero maintenance outside of oil changes since it's brand new, ridiculously long warranty, amazing in the snow due to electronic stability control (plus traction control), and my car payment is less than I was paying in gas for the Volvo every month. Do I miss the comfort & power of the Volvo? Oh heck yes. Do I miss the associated bills with the Volvo? Nope! So that's my two cents...great car if you love it & don't mind paying the maintenance costs. It's a beast of a machine!

 

[Kaido]

And worth the price you'll have to pay for repairing them when the break.

GM/Ford/Honda/Toyota/Mazda, manual trans, crank windows, etc.

Funny story...I leased a Saturn ION sedan about 10 years ago (great car btw). I had had so many electrical issues with my previous vehicles that I specifically bought one with crank windows. After about a year or so of driving it, I was rolling down the window when it fell of the track onto the door lock mechanism and broke both the manual window crank & manual door lock. Murphy is alive & well :biggrin:

 

[Kaido]

Great car. My wife just sold hers with close to 200K miles.

Yeah, I traded mine in at 200k miles as well. Great car if you don't mind the reality of what maintenance costs :biggrin:

Would absolutely LOVE to get a new XC90. The interior is bananas:

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/05/27/next-generation-volvo-xc90-interior-revealed/

Not to mention the 400 HP supercharged, turbocharged, electric hybrid powertrain system:

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/08/27/2015-volvo-xc90-deep-dive-live-reveal-official/

And the Tesla-style screen in the middle of the dashboard:

http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2015-volvo-xc90-live-reveal/full/#photo-2875653

:thumbsup:

 

[JCH13]

That was probably me me:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2310758

I had the exact same car but in a beige color. Traded it in for a Kia Soul, but miss it a lot! In a nutshell:

1. Talk to phucheneh here, he's the man in terms of Volvo knowledge. Warning: he will tell you to run far, far away from it
2. Most comfortable seats ever
3. LOVE the power. That twin-turbo six is loads of fun!
4. Annual cost of maintenance (done right) is $3,000 (that's per year)
5. Most expensive year the previous owner had was $6,000 in maintenance bills (mostly just replacing stuff per the maintenance schedule)
6. Can work on regular or premium fuel. Regular = drives like a regular car, Premium = LOTS of guts, plenty of oomph! The extra cost was annoying ($85 per fillup from empty), but the power was sooooo worth it when you punched the gas. I averaged 20 MPG mixed city/highway, but if you're doing exclusively highway, you can get 26 MPG.
7. Surprisingly good in the snow (thanks to the weight - very heavy car). The traction control system is a bit dated, but worked decently, even with just the performance tires on it. Which, btw, were amazing - zero hydroplaning in the rain EVER.

I got rid of it because the transmission started slipping, and I also had trouble getting it into reverse sometimes. I didn't want to dump any more money into it so I traded her in for an econobox. The guy I bought it from kept meticulous records and it averaged a few grand a year in maintenance, so be warned that it is VERY expensive to maintain. I started looking at getting the transmission fixed or replaced, coupled with doing long-term maintenance, and decided to go with a cheap little Kia with a 10-year warranty instead.

My only real advice is be aware that it may be a deal up front, but the long-term maintenance costs are not small (oil changes are expensive, parts & labor is expensive, gas is expensive - even with regular fuel, you still have a 21-gallon tank!). If you can handle the maintenance costs, it is an amazing car. Roomy, comfortable, powerful, just really enjoyable. More stuff will break since it's a 13-year-old car with over 100k miles on it, so keep in mind that the costs will just keep on coming. That's not a bad thing, if you love the car & have the budget to deal with it, but don't think that you'll get the car for a song & then have a super low-maintenance machine!

Speaking of the Kia, I get 30 MPG in it (+10 over what I got in the Volvo), it only costs me $45 to fill up (a $40 weekly savings over the Volvo), lots of nice new features (Bluetooth etc.), pretty much zero maintenance outside of oil changes since it's brand new, ridiculously long warranty, amazing in the snow due to electronic stability control (plus traction control), and my car payment is less than I was paying in gas for the Volvo every month. Do I miss the comfort & power of the Volvo? Oh heck yes. Do I miss the associated bills with the Volvo? Nope! So that's my two cents...great car if you love it & don't mind paying the maintenance costs. It's a beast of a machine!

Through independent mechanics and getting rebuilt parts my dad's car was around $2k/year to maintain, and mileage ran between 24 and 30mpg (mixed highway and city). One tank netted over 600 miles! Yeah it's a lot to fill up, but that's because it's got twice the capacity of your average econobox.

Looking at the depreciation... call it $44k value lost over 13 years, it's lost $3.4k per year in depreciation. Makes that $2-3k/year in maintenance look less terrible.

 

[Scarpozzi]

I don't have a problem with buying an older car for cheap. What scares me is the transmission replacement more than anything. For a powertrain to fail before 100k miles, that either says the car was driven hard or the manufacturer had some major defects.

I had a mid-90s Mitsubishi fail like that at 120k miles. It never drove right after having the transmission repaired.

My car has 142k miles on it...it's a 2003 Buick Regal. Consider seeking one of those out. They stopped making that car in 2004, but it and the Century are probably in a similar price point and are far more reliable, cheap to repair... There's plenty of space in the engine compartment to work and parts are readily available. The LS is powered by the GM 3800 Series II @ 200hp.

 

[Kaido]

Through independent mechanics and getting rebuilt parts my dad's car was around $2k/year to maintain, and mileage ran between 24 and 30mpg (mixed highway and city). One tank netted over 600 miles! Yeah it's a lot to fill up, but that's because it's got twice the capacity of your average econobox.

Looking at the depreciation... call it $44k value lost over 13 years, it's lost $3.4k per year in depreciation. Makes that $2-3k/year in maintenance look less terrible.

Yeah and either way, you're still going to have to pay somewhere...either for an old car for maintenance, or for a new car with a car payment. My Kia is a good $3k a year for the next 5 years, so it would have either been dumped into the Volvo or spent on brand-new budget ride - I opted to get the new one because I knew it would give me less headaches over the next five years.

Just depends on how much you love the car & what your budget allows. Mine was $40k+ new (previous owner had all of the original paperwork & details) and I got to drive it around for a year, so that was pretty fun! I'll probably never own a luxury car like that again & I really enjoyed my time with it :thumbsup:

 

[JCH13]

I don't have a problem with buying an older car for cheap. What scares me is the transmission replacement more than anything. For a powertrain to fail before 100k miles, that either says the car was driven hard or the manufacturer had some major defects.

I had a mid-90s Mitsubishi fail like that at 120k miles. It never drove right after having the transmission repaired.

My car has 142k miles on it...it's a 2003 Buick Regal. Consider seeking one of those out. They stopped making that car in 2004, but it and the Century are probably in a similar price point and are far more reliable, cheap to repair... There's plenty of space in the engine compartment to work and parts are readily available. The LS is powered by the GM 3800 Series II @ 200hp.

Like I said, it is a known issue with the transmission. Either the 1-2 shift solenoid or the adaptive shifting software, depending on who you ask, that caused issues. There was a software fix issued, I don't know if there was a mechanical fix. Easy to drive around if you use the 'tip-tronic' feature or are careful around the 1-2 shift point. Some people with more money than sense had their transmissions replaced, my Dad's S80 had 180k on the original trans when he traded it in. His 1-2 shift issue got fixed with a software update IIRC.

 

[trpvdc]

kitatech

Wow, that's crazy. This car's history was long but not even close to that, most of the other servicings I didn't mention were all of the bulbs that are notorious for going out.


XabanakFanatik

Yeah I saw that on some other forums and repair websites about that internal leak possibly meaning head gasket. I was hoping for it to be slowly leaking on the driveway when I asked the seller about it, probably would have been a cheaper repair.


Billb2

I didn't realize about the turbo exhaust manifold, thanks for that info, I've never owned a car with a turbo. Looked up the repair price on that and it seemed to be at least $1500.


JCH13

That's a good point, although I'm not really worried about depreciation. I plan on this potentially being a bridge car that I would keep 2-3 years while I save up some money to get something much newer. At around a $2500 purchase price I could handle maintenance on it, but I'm starting to rethink whether I'd want to, instead of getting something cheaper to maintain so I could save more money for a new car.


Kaido

Yes kaido that was your post I saw, lots of useful advice in that thread - especially from phucheneh as you mentioned. I appreciate your extensive post.


Sorry I wasn't able to reply directly to each of these posts, I've seen it done before but I'm not sure how to do multi replies/quotes within the same post