Wagons Ho!

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Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
21,823
6,229
136
I'm confused. I could see an electric blower for boost at low rpms giving way to the turbo at higher rpms but a belt driven blower would be rpm-dependent like the turbo. I guest low rpms are still pretty high when driving a fan.
Belt driven superchargers (blowers) used to be faster to spool up than turbos. Turbo lag was a real thing for a long time, that's why dragsters always used blowers.
 

ondma

Diamond Member
Mar 18, 2018
3,247
1,655
136
Belt driven superchargers (blowers) used to be faster to spool up than turbos. Turbo lag was a real thing for a long time, that's why dragsters always used blowers.
Yea, turbos have come a long way. Small displacement turbos like VW and Honda have a lot of low end torque.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,758
10,344
146
Yea, turbos have come a long way. Small displacement turbos like VW and Honda have a lot of low end torque.
Yup. The smaller the "rotor," the faster and easier it spools up. So, they have twin turbos now . . . one with a small "rotor" for initial oomph, and one with a bigger rotor to take over, with even more oomph, at speed. Plus, one of the Germans, I think it was BMW, has pioneered placing the turbo in the "valley" between the cylinder heads -- this would perforce be on V-8s -- where the air flow is hotter, which helps.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,389
8,547
126
I'm not sure why you're using the word that way instead of the industry standard common use. You literally had to add extra words to your original statement about the superchargers to clarify the difference instead of simply saying turbocharger.
won't someone think of the poor electrons?!?


I'm confused. I could see an electric blower for boost at low rpms giving way to the turbo at higher rpms but a belt driven blower would be rpm-dependent like the turbo. I guest low rpms are still pretty high when driving a fan.
i doubt it's electric because you need a higher voltage system than what cars typically use. afaik so far the only electric supercharger in a production car is on merc's M256 engine.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
21,823
6,229
136
Yup. The smaller the "rotor," the faster and easier it spools up. So, they have twin turbos now . . . one with a small "rotor" for initial oomph, and one with a bigger rotor to take over, with even more oomph, at speed. Plus, one of the Germans, I think it was BMW, has pioneered placing the turbo in the "valley" between the cylinder heads -- this would perforce be on V-8s -- where the air flow is hotter, which helps.
I'm trying to picture the plumbing for that. I assume the intake/exhaust location is reversed but it still seems like there would be a lot of bends and twists to get that air through an intercooler and to the intake, and a bunch more to get the exhaust out.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,178
1,777
126
Why do I get the impression that the OP is a surfer?

By the way -- anyone remember the old "Woodie" wagons?

"Let's go surfin' now, everybody's surfin' now -- come on go surfin' with me!"

As you all know from being active in this forum, I'm the "Trooper guy". I'd rather have my Trooper than a wagon. Rather have my Trooper than a "crossover".
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
72,156
32,515
136
My parents had a series of wagons while I was growing up: a Ford Gran Torino, a Ford LTD wagon, a Ford Pinto wagon, a Ford Escort wagon, and a Ford Fairmont wagon.

This was my first wagon, same colors, same everything. Mine died in Ranger, TX while I was moving across country with an ancient German Sheppard. I had gotten the oil changed in Fort Worth and the car dropped all its oil while climbing out of river valley east of Ranger. I sold the car to the mechanic for $50 to cut my losses and move on. The car in the pic below sold for $5000 in 2018.



 
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Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,758
10,344
146
I'm trying to picture the plumbing for that. I assume the intake/exhaust location is reversed but it still seems like there would be a lot of bends and twists to get that air through an intercooler and to the intake, and a bunch more to get the exhaust out.
Good question. If I knew what I was talking about, I could probably give you an answer.
 
Reactions: zinfamous

rstrohkirch

Platinum Member
May 31, 2005
2,434
367
126
I very much believe if you want to do a high HP wagon then it needs to be AWD. That way you can rip it up any time of the year anywhere. Not that any wagon sells well but it certainly wasn't going to sell well in northern states.
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
99,090
17,444
126
I very much believe if you want to do a high HP wagon then it needs to be AWD. That way you can rip it up any time of the year anywhere. Not that any wagon sells well but it certainly wasn't going to sell well in northern states.
NE loves Outback
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,647
30,932
146
Yea, turbos have come a long way. Small displacement turbos like VW and Honda have a lot of low end torque.

yup. My GTI hits max torque at 1500 rpm, and it is very linear through 6k

EDIT: that's with the stock IS20 turbo. IS38 (stock with Golf R) hits max torque ~2500, I believe?
 

NutBucket

Lifer
Aug 30, 2000
27,124
613
126
I very much believe if you want to do a high HP wagon then it needs to be AWD. That way you can rip it up any time of the year anywhere. Not that any wagon sells well but it certainly wasn't going to sell well in northern states.
See: MB E63 AMG estate, Audi RS-6 estate
NE loves Outback
And SoCal too. But I bet if Subaru made a FWD variant it would sell just as well (maybe better since lower price and presumably better MPGs)
 

rstrohkirch

Platinum Member
May 31, 2005
2,434
367
126
See: MB E63 AMG estate, Audi RS-6 estate

I'm pretty sure all of them are AWD. All the high performance ones and all the 350-400hp mid performance ones are as well like the 340i, c43, rs4 avant, etc. I'm not sure why Caddy would put out a high performance wagon and then make it RWD only.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,758
10,344
146
Is the Outback really a wagon anymore? I think it technically is but:


Same with the effing Forester. Aside from fuel mileage, not historically a Subie strong point, the pervious Forester was my kind of vehicle . . . a small wagon featuring the utility of a box shape with a relatively low belt line and a high greenhouse featuring plenty of glass all around to see out of.

That's always been one of the "hidden" features of the small wagons I've favored . . . superb all around rear and side visibility.

Old Forester from, I guess, two generations ago:



New, SUV-Like Forester:

 

NutBucket

Lifer
Aug 30, 2000
27,124
613
126
It's more SUV like but still has the huge greenhouse and excellent visibility. A-OK in my book.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,758
10,344
146
It's more SUV like but still has the huge greenhouse and excellent visibility. A-OK in my book.
Yeah, but it's like 50% larger than just two gens ago. I was startled when I saw one in the showroom ($50 for a test ride? Don't mind if I do!)
 
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