#walkaway

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Maxima1

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,549
761
146
No. That's your dodge.

There are only two possible reasons blacks have a 36% handicap is hiring, and the poorest economic outcome in America as a group.

Even if we give benefit of the doubt in those studies, it was concentrated towards dead-end low paying customer service jobs that don't have a robust HR department. But hey, based on percentage, blacks get more welfare aid. Other than that, companies bend over backward to try to give blacks an edge even if it means reliability and validity of the selection process goes down slightly. I also don't know of any studies suggesting blacks do so much better in performance reviews as would be implied if only better black candidates (relative to other applicants) get the jobs.

Oh, and Jews are (for the most part) whites.

Yes, but you still have to explain why the subgroup performs so well. For some, that is explained by their tight-knit communities. So see? A different explanation! It's far more nuanced than this simplistic genetic vs. racism drivel.

‘Asian people have higher income than whites therefore black people aren’t the victims of racism’ is one of the dumber arguments I have heard.

That's distorting what I said. Racism happens, but how much of an impact does it have? I think someone having a crossed eyed with all else equaled except skin tone probably has a worse outcome frankly. We could look at different many other things that would incrementally change groups such as parenting, ebonics, or prospects of a partner in adult life (e.g. black women are the least desirable).
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,078
18,541
146
Even if we give benefit of the doubt in those studies, it was concentrated towards dead-end low paying customer service jobs that don't have a robust HR department. But hey, based on percentage, blacks get more welfare aid. Other than that, companies bend over backward to try to give blacks an edge even if it means reliability and validity of the selection process goes down slightly. I also don't know of any studies suggesting blacks do so much better in performance reviews as would be implied if only better black candidates (relative to other applicants) get the jobs.



Yes, but you still have to explain why the subgroup performs so well. For some, that is explained by their tight-knit communities. So see? A different explanation! It's far more nuanced than this simplistic genetic vs. racism drivel.



That's distorting what I said. Racism happens, but how much of an impact does it have? I think someone having a crossed eyed with all else equaled except skin tone probably has a worse outcome frankly. We could look at different many other things that would incrementally change groups such as parenting, ebonics, or prospects of a partner in adult life (e.g. black women are the least desirable).

This isn't a sub group or distinct cultural group. This is blacks as a whole. Your point is an irrelevant dodge from the true dichotomy of the issue.

Either blacks as a whole do significantly worse economically in America because of (the scientifically proven) systemic racism that leads to a (proven) 36% hiring handicap, or because they are inherently inferior and thus unable to compete in the job market. Denying systemic racism exists is not only science denialism, it is a sign of your own racist beliefs that blacks are inherently inferior. And I don't give a fuck how much you try to pseudo-intellectually talk your way around it.

Just so you understand: Comparing entire racial groups to cultural subgroups is irrelevant.

And a scientific consensus on systemic racism in hiring is not "drivel." But keep telling yourself that to preserve your feeling of superiority., Blood and soil, amirite?
 
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m8d

Senior member
Nov 5, 2012
654
1,055
136
Im not impressed. In 2016 it was horribly obvious the guy was evil and full of shit. 62 million Americans simply could not see it.
That a handful of people are slowly starting to open their eyes after two years and hundreds of scandals and thousands of lies doesnt really inspire confidence in me.
I'd move to England but those people seem to be even better sheep for their overlords.
America has a lot of dumb fucking people. They elected the most ignorant person on the plant to be president.
 

Maxima1

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,549
761
146
This isn't a sub group or distinct cultural group. This is blacks as a whole. Your point is an irrelevant dodge from the true dichotomy of the issue.
Conveniently ignoring Asians…

Do you really believe things such as parenting would be uniform between racial groups? Why do you insist it either has to be racism or genetic?

Either blacks as a whole do significantly worse economically in America because of (the scientifically proven) systemic racism that leads to a (proven) 36% hiring handicap, or because they are inherently inferior and thus unable to compete in the job market. Denying systemic racism exists is not only science denialism, it is a sign of your own racist beliefs that blacks are inherently inferior. And I don't give a fuck how much you try to pseudo-intellectually talk your way around it.
How are we defining “systemic racism”? For a lot of people, it nonsensically means if a group has an unequal negative outcome relative to another, the explanation must be “racism” by Bad People.

Ex. Black men get longer sentences, so racism.... Actual reason: Because it’s correlated with the rate of crime. Would you tell me the justice system is sexist because men are sentenced longer than women?



And a scientific consensus on systemic racism in hiring is not "drivel." But keep telling yourself that to preserve your feeling of superiority., Blood and soil, amirite?

I don’t know how much of the IQ gap is genetic, but I would be floored if it was 0%. I can tell you that even some progressives are acknowledging now that genetics determine a lot of life’s outcome in stark contrast to the usual 100% environmental BS. Some already accept 60-70% of the outcome from K-12 in developed countries is determined by genetic factors. Paige Harden is one of them, and she doesn’t have a racist bone in her body.



I will close by noting that not even the three of us are completely in agreement about it: I (Turkheimer) am convinced that the question is irredeemably unscientific; Nisbett accepts it as a legitimate scientific question, and thinks evidence points fairly strongly in the direction of the black-white gap being entirely environmental in origin; while Harden questions the quality of the existing evidence, but thinks more determinative data may be found in future genetic knowledge.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
25,401
14,921
136
Blacks are this, whites are that and dont forget the Asians.
While these observations may be clinically correct right now, every single firing neuron in my brain is telling me that it is a loosing strategy to think of it in those terms. The second you are thinking blacks are .. something, you are stereotyping the issue at hand, say it out loud and you are concensus stereotyping it with a group of people, sooner rather than later you have "Blacks cant stand gay people" .. and even some black people will pick it up and make take it to heart. Self fulfilling prophecies and all that. We should really stop doing this kind of stuff to ourselves.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,078
18,541
146
Conveniently ignoring Asians…

Do you really believe things such as parenting would be uniform between racial groups? Why do you insist it either has to be racism or genetic?


How are we defining “systemic racism”? For a lot of people, it nonsensically means if a group has an unequal negative outcome relative to another, the explanation must be “racism” by Bad People.

Ex. Black men get longer sentences, so racism.... Actual reason: Because it’s correlated with the rate of crime. Would you tell me the justice system is sexist because men are sentenced longer than women?





I don’t know how much of the IQ gap is genetic, but I would be floored if it was 0%. I can tell you that even some progressives are acknowledging now that genetics determine a lot of life’s outcome in stark contrast to the usual 100% environmental BS. Some already accept 60-70% of the outcome from K-12 in developed countries is determined by genetic factors. Paige Harden is one of them, and she doesn’t have a racist bone in her body.



I will close by noting that not even the three of us are completely in agreement about it: I (Turkheimer) am convinced that the question is irredeemably unscientific; Nisbett accepts it as a legitimate scientific question, and thinks evidence points fairly strongly in the direction of the black-white gap being entirely environmental in origin; while Harden questions the quality of the existing evidence, but thinks more determinative data may be found in future genetic knowledge.

All I will address is the fact that you use people talking about genetic IQ differences among individuals and ignorantly think it applies along racial lines.

The crayon lines between points on your racist Glenn Beck whiteboard have no basis in reality and your white supremacy is contrary to scientific consensus, and basic morality.

White supremacists deserve to be shunned, privately banned, deplatformed and stigmatized.
 
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Maxima1

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,549
761
146
All I will address

If you're going to bother, why not address the post without cherry-picking (funnily enough, one of your go-to arguments)? Some of these just involved really nothing more than a "yes" or "no", yet they were ignored.

is the fact that you use people talking about genetic IQ differences among individuals and ignorantly think it applies along racial lines.

You can't use a polygenic score to predict an individual's outcome yet. GWAS is about populations. I thought I made it clear as well that this wasn't proof of racial differences, though I think we both can see where this is heading as seen with the hedging by Harden in the Vox article.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,613
11,254
136
Yea, I get what the "last straw" situation means. I just find it very humorous what the "last straw" can be for people. Like people didn't know about Trump's fragile ego before now? Lol...
Sharpiegate is completely blatant to anyone not completely blinded by hatred of liberals (i.e. dyed in the wool Trump supporters). And it is insanely petty. I could see it being a wake up call to some people just because of how obvious it is and it can't really be spun. Some times it is the comically stupid things that really let you see someone's true character.
 
Last edited:
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,413
54,102
136
Cool. I walked away in 2007.

If that’s true that’s kind of amazing. Remember, 2007 was a time where years of unified Republican rule had gotten the US into two ruinous wars and after years of poor regulation of the financial industry the rumblings of the largest economic calamities of our lifetimes were happening. Imagine looking at that legacy of failure and deciding ‘that’s the place for me!’

Back to the broader topic though it is encouraging to see more and more Republicans walking away, and lifelong Republicans at that. In the case of my friend in PA they haven’t changed their personal ideology, they didn’t suddenly become liberal, they just know the Republican Party has become a cancer on the country. Pro life, super Christian conservatives are now voting straight Democratic ticket until the danger to the country has passed.

I hope you’re able to see the danger too and join them. There will be a time in the future to vote for the Republican Party or whatever emerges from its rubble after this, but right now there is a national emergency and your country needs you to protect it.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,989
32,259
136
Conveniently ignoring Asians…

Do you really believe things such as parenting would be uniform between racial groups? Why do you insist it either has to be racism or genetic?


How are we defining “systemic racism”? For a lot of people, it nonsensically means if a group has an unequal negative outcome relative to another, the explanation must be “racism” by Bad People.

Ex. Black men get longer sentences, so racism.... Actual reason: Because it’s correlated with the rate of crime. Would you tell me the justice system is sexist because men are sentenced longer than women?





I don’t know how much of the IQ gap is genetic, but I would be floored if it was 0%. I can tell you that even some progressives are acknowledging now that genetics determine a lot of life’s outcome in stark contrast to the usual 100% environmental BS. Some already accept 60-70% of the outcome from K-12 in developed countries is determined by genetic factors. Paige Harden is one of them, and she doesn’t have a racist bone in her body.



I will close by noting that not even the three of us are completely in agreement about it: I (Turkheimer) am convinced that the question is irredeemably unscientific; Nisbett accepts it as a legitimate scientific question, and thinks evidence points fairly strongly in the direction of the black-white gap being entirely environmental in origin; while Harden questions the quality of the existing evidence, but thinks more determinative data may be found in future genetic knowledge.
Were all asians denied access to quality education until roughly 50-60 years ago? How many generations do you think it would have taken asians or caucasians to overcome something like that?
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
25,401
14,921
136
Were all asians denied access to quality education until roughly 50-60 years ago? How many generations do you think it would have taken asians or caucasians to overcome something like that?

That is not asians. That is a select subset of a demographic with societal preconditions that warrants an intervention on the federal level. The second it becomes "asians" you will have slow types popping up with "reverse racsism" bullshit narratives. We all stereotype, its in our genes, not everything our genes tells us is productive in the right here and now.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,199
9,379
136
I wonder when the Republicans Leaving the Party (#walkaway) topic was co-opted by race talk. The former is much more interesting than the latter.

Case in point, how many will flee in the shame of SharpieGate? Leaves us with a tough pickle. Appeal through moderation, or use this unprecedented Republican dissatisfaction / weakness to forge ahead for a better future? There can be appeal / voter turn out based on promising real, and meaningful change. Elections don't have to be all about making independents (blue dogs / conservatives) feel comfortable. We don't have to settle for less, when we can reach for more.

Why blunt trickle down when you can smother it?

Make no mistake that these #walkaway Republicans are still largely worshipers at the altar of greed, and are still bought into the propaganda that tax cuts are effective. Evidence to the contrary hasn't reached their ears, despite their apparent ability to condemn Trump and his sycophants. Question is... what path do we forge ahead?

I would remind you of the Affordable Care Act. That is what compromised policy gets us. False hope, broken promises, and smeared all the same.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
If that’s true that’s kind of amazing. Remember, 2007 was a time where years of unified Republican rule had gotten the US into two ruinous wars and after years of poor regulation of the financial industry the rumblings of the largest economic calamities of our lifetimes were happening. Imagine looking at that legacy of failure and deciding ‘that’s the place for me!’

Back to the broader topic though it is encouraging to see more and more Republicans walking away, and lifelong Republicans at that. In the case of my friend in PA they haven’t changed their personal ideology, they didn’t suddenly become liberal, they just know the Republican Party has become a cancer on the country. Pro life, super Christian conservatives are now voting straight Democratic ticket until the danger to the country has passed.

I hope you’re able to see the danger too and join them. There will be a time in the future to vote for the Republican Party or whatever emerges from its rubble after this, but right now there is a national emergency and your country needs you to protect it.

I have never voted straight down party lines, of either side. Nor will I start. I dont think either side has the answers to everything. Nor do I subscribe to the philosophies of only one side.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,078
18,541
146
I have never voted straight down party lines, of either side. Nor will I start. I dont think either side has the answers to everything. Nor do I subscribe to the philosophies of only one side.

Then you never "walked away." You can't "walk away" from somewhere you've never been.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,413
54,102
136
Sad news everyone, Trump's own African American has now #walkedaway due to the president's extreme racism.


“They were sidestepping the people of color issue and saying that, ‘No, it’s not racist,’” he said. “They were saying these people were socialists and communists. That’s what they were saying. And I thought this is a classic case of whites not seeing racism because they want to put blinders on and make it about something else.”

Gee, now who does that sound like, haha.
 
Reactions: esquared
Feb 4, 2009
35,862
17,401
136
Sad news everyone, Trump's own African American has now #walkedaway due to the president's extreme racism.




Gee, now who does that sound like, haha.

Looks like no more black guy at a Trump rally.

Notice how I used guy as singular.
 
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