WAR - what is your impression?

[Slappy00]

i think that many people are comparing the pvp in wow to war. The pvp in war is fundamentally different. In wow the pvp has always been about individual effort, meaning that battles are typically many little contests with individual players looking for favorable opponents. For instance as a mage i always looked for warriors and leveled them, and I could do it every time. In WoW the culmination of the individual pvp-based achievement is arena play. Arena requires careful strategy and execution, with most teams knowing the others game plan, its really a matter of who screws up first.

War has a different approach to pvp, rather than focusing on the individual fights WAR focuses on the battle. Although you can still fight 1 on 1 you do much much better fighting in a group. The game practically enforces this with collision as well as fighting mechanics.

It's not that one game is better than the other but the approaches to pvp are quite different. wow is more about smaller battles and individual effort while war rewards people who fight as a team.

I think someone a while back said it best that WoW is a pve game with pvp added, and WAR was designed as a pvp game with pve added. With WotLK coming out there might be a change in mechanics but I doubt it will be anything beyond BGs and Arena like it always was. WAR is a bit unpolished but it has a lot of things I like so for me I am sticking with it for the time being.

 

[drebo]

Order's knockbacks and broken roots are pissing me off so much right now. That, and the fact that the Black Orc is completely broken through the 20s. I can't do enough damage to kill a lower-level archmage by myself, can't do enough damage to hold agro in PQs so i never get to the top, and loot NEVER drops. Considering that the Black Guard to be released in December is going to be everything the BO should have been, my future pretty much sucks.

And the Order knockbacks. Absolutely ridiculous. Openfield or not. THey all need to be changed to a 10 foot knockback, and the roots need to properly break. If I'm rooted and get punted, the root shoudl break, no?

The game as a whole is fun, and the community is decent, too...but there are a LOT of little things that need polishing before the game can be great. Class balance is one. IBs, for instance, are WAY overpowered. They have better survivability than a BO, but have the DPS and utility of a Chosen. And don't get me started on BWs. They're supposed to be pure DPS, yet they have the utility of the Magus. Hell, if order rolled nothing but Warrior Priests, IBs, and BWs, they would never lose.

 

[Keeper]

???? I have a question...

In RVR the ones you walk into, not the ones you join a quque...

Do lower level guys get that bump that you get when you join the quque one?
In the quque one you get bumped to a level 8 or something?


Last night I was a level 10 Magus and I SPY a level 6 magic user of some sort.


I GOT PWNED??????? More than once and by diff magic users..

I know not to go one and one with a Melee order, but trading sparks and lightning bolts at 60 paces... with 6's and 7's.....WHY (Do I suck that bad?)

I EVEN got my fireballer down and he was "helping".....

I never did this version of RVR at less than 8 so I dont know if theyt get that bump....

Still PWNED Even if they go to 8.... (Sigh) I am hoping that there was somneone off to the side buffing or healing..

Still enjoying the game though...

 

[Malladine]

Originally posted by: Keeper
???? I have a question...

In RVR the ones you walk into, not the ones you join a quque...

Do lower level guys get that bump that you get when you join the quque one?
In the quque one you get bumped to a level 8 or something?

yeah they do, and it's a standard level, HP and damage but not abilities. Rank 8 for Tier 1, Rank 18 for Tier 2, etc.

Last night I was a level 10 Magus and I SPY a level 6 magic user of some sort.

I GOT PWNED??????? More than once and by diff magic users..

I know not to go one and one with a Melee order, but trading sparks and lightning bolts at 60 paces... with 6's and 7's.....WHY (Do I suck that bad?)

I EVEN got my fireballer down and he was "helping".....

I never did this version of RVR at less than 8 so I dont know if theyt get that bump....

Still PWNED Even if they go to 8.... (Sigh) I am hoping that there was somneone off to the side buffing or healing..

Still enjoying the game though...

lol...wow.
yeah, could have been lots of reasons, he might have been buffed, healed...you might suck
Practice your button clicks, you can start casting a spell as soon as the cast bar disappears from the previous cast.

 

[Keeper]

Hey, thanks for the quick replies...


It may be time to look into marcos.... :evil:

Actually, with the little LAG issue I have I can spam my spells and almost deveop a wanna be macro...

I can click a spell 3 times... And I can usually get 2 complete casts out of it.. What does SUCK is if I want to change a spell... Then I am yelling at the screen.. NO... Not XXXXX I should have gotten a "Ability not ready" message I want YYYYYY.


Pretty sure the level 6 popped an UBER potion... (I NEED TO JOIN A GUILD LOL)

I was winning... And then suddenly BOOM.. She critted me.. And was back to 3/4 health.

Me? I died.... Still loving it though..

thanks for the conformation that on HP's and Damage....they are 8's....

 

[Malladine]

Don't know much about Macros in Warhammer...i'd like to learn though, anyone know a site that details how to program them? What's possible, etc?

Yeah lag can be a killer. Plus you could turn your settings down a bit. What are your system specs?

Potions are nice in Warhammer, tough to make though i've found. Not really sure which crafting skill to take to best make them. If I take cultivating i can make main ingredients, but I need stuff like water that takes scavenging to find, and scav/cult isn't allowed. Cult/Apo is, but I still need core ingredients unless I want to use the crappy vendored kind.

 

[Keeper]

I totally hear you re crafting...

A lot of things DONT marry up...

I guess that is part of their intent...

Forcing Guild or at least large list of Friends type scenario...

Right now... Totally concentrating on the leveling factor..
Love the fact I get XP in PVP...



Last night (late) a few orders were walking up a path... I was standing next to a cannon in Deaths Brink (or something like that)
WOOT OMG WOW LETS ROCK...

In the 10 seconds it took me to figure out what to do.... How to aim etc etc and then ONLY to realize I TOTALLY screwed up the "Power" of the shot... (Could not reach them)
All I could do was send a volley at them that fell WAY short and just warned them...
They ran like babies...

Now that success.... Would have been COOL...

 

[Joemonkey]

Originally posted by: Beev
Canceled my sub this weekend. Above average game, but they have a long way to go before I take another look.

same here. Plus, very few of my guild was actually playing, and those that were were either poopsocking it or playing 2 hours a week...

 

[RedArmy]

Originally posted by: Malladine
Don't know much about Macros in Warhammer...i'd like to learn though, anyone know a site that details how to program them? What's possible, etc?

Yeah lag can be a killer. Plus you could turn your settings down a bit. What are your system specs?

Potions are nice in Warhammer, tough to make though i've found. Not really sure which crafting skill to take to best make them. If I take cultivating i can make main ingredients, but I need stuff like water that takes scavenging to find, and scav/cult isn't allowed. Cult/Apo is, but I still need core ingredients unless I want to use the crappy vendored kind.

http://www.curse.com/

 

[RedArmy]

Originally posted by: drebo
Order's knockbacks and broken roots are pissing me off so much right now. That, and the fact that the Black Orc is completely broken through the 20s. I can't do enough damage to kill a lower-level archmage by myself, can't do enough damage to hold agro in PQs so i never get to the top, and loot NEVER drops. Considering that the Black Guard to be released in December is going to be everything the BO should have been, my future pretty much sucks.

And the Order knockbacks. Absolutely ridiculous. Openfield or not. THey all need to be changed to a 10 foot knockback, and the roots need to properly break. If I'm rooted and get punted, the root shoudl break, no?

The game as a whole is fun, and the community is decent, too...but there are a LOT of little things that need polishing before the game can be great. Class balance is one. IBs, for instance, are WAY overpowered. They have better survivability than a BO, but have the DPS and utility of a Chosen. And don't get me started on BWs. They're supposed to be pure DPS, yet they have the utility of the Magus. Hell, if order rolled nothing but Warrior Priests, IBs, and BWs, they would never lose.

Withering heat ftl.

 

[KMFJD]

Rooting, then knocking back 3-4 Destruction into lava never get's old.....

 

[novasatori]

I decided not to resub, I may give it another look when they fix magnet abilities, but I'm not even too hopeful on that anymore.

I was hoping it would be fixed within the 30 days, or at least be discussed, but the only discussion I've seen from official sources on it is this:

CSR on Magnet thru Keep Door

If they don't think that is exploiting and there is a problem with it, i just really don't have much hope for the magnet issue overall.

You would think they would have learned from DAoC, but I guess not, cause I'd say WAR CC is almost worse than DAoC, and they wanted WAR to be a CC-lite game to avoid the same mistakes.

 

[drebo]

I guess it's a good thing that there are like 3 maguses in the entire game.

Brightwizards, on the other hand....

As far as the keeps go, though, every side has problems with LoS. Engineer turrets, for example, do not lose line of sight when you run behind a rock, wall, door, keep, etc. The PBAE roots are all usable through walls, as are most AE damage effects, of which Order has a decidedly larger amount.

Don't kid yourself into thinking that only one class is broken or that they will never be fixed. There are a LOT of class issues in this game, and most of them are on Order side (or exacerbated by the fact that more people play the classes that have issues on Order).

 

[KMFJD]

http://uk.gamespy.com/pc/warhammer-online/913667p1.html

 

[novasatori]

Originally posted by: drebo
I guess it's a good thing that there are like 3 maguses in the entire game.

Brightwizards, on the other hand....

As far as the keeps go, though, every side has problems with LoS. Engineer turrets, for example, do not lose line of sight when you run behind a rock, wall, door, keep, etc. The PBAE roots are all usable through walls, as are most AE damage effects, of which Order has a decidedly larger amount.

Don't kid yourself into thinking that only one class is broken or that they will never be fixed. There are a LOT of class issues in this game, and most of them are on Order side (or exacerbated by the fact that more people play the classes that have issues on Order).

Electromagnet / Chaotic Rift are probably the worst CC I've ever seen in an MMO and I played DAoC at release, so that says A LOT, I believe. It seems to me you just want to go on a order is overpowered tirade, when in fact, I think overall most of the game is balanced.

There are a few imbalances, (BW/Sorc mechanic come to mind) DOK group snare, DR/Immunity not working on KB/Roots, but overall its minor compared to Electromagnet/Chaotic Rift.

I'm also going to assume you really haven't seen them in use, otherwise you wouldn't compare it to something small like AOE damage/roots through doors.

Oh and btw, you apparently don't understand Engineer has the Magus counterpart spell: Electromagnet, which I complain about too. Despite what you think, I don't want Magus nerfed because I think they're overpowered, I want Electromagnet AND Chaotic Rift either nerfed to something WAY less powerful, or removed, they can buff magi/engineers for all I care afterward.

You also complain about order having more AOE spells, and I gotta say you should do some research into spells and class before you make such statements, because you couldn't be more incorrect.

Sorc AOE spec is more common and better than BW, BW is only good because of his DOT spec. Marauder demo is on a 0sec CD, WL is on a 5sec CD, and we don't get ours till level 30 whereas marauders get it at level 7(either that or 9).

I have faith they will fix it someday, but I'm just not going to pay $15 to play broken ORVR @ R40 at the moment. I just wish it would get fixed faster.

 

[Slappy00]

for as much as I don't like the bugs/imbalances in WAR I dont think I can ever go back to the BG/Arena grindfest that is WoW's idea of PvP. All I did in WoW is sit in BGs/arena all day and it wore me out to tell you the truth.

I like the groundwork WAR laid out is solid and refreshing in my opinion at least. I think the bugs will be worked out, and like WoW there will always be some class that is OP or that needs to be nerfed.

 

[Malladine]

Originally posted by: Slappy00
and like WoW there will always be some class that is OP or that needs to be nerfed.

This is a fallacy. Every class has utility in given situations. When a game is as static as WoW, said situations are fewer by far, therefore apparent class disparities are more evident.

That said druids are broken.

 

[Scrimmy]

Originally posted by: Slappy00
for as much as I don't like the bugs/imbalances in WAR I dont think I can ever go back to the BG/Arena grindfest that is WoW's idea of PvP. All I did in WoW is sit in BGs/arena all day and it wore me out to tell you the truth.

I like the groundwork WAR laid out is solid and refreshing in my opinion at least. I think the bugs will be worked out, and like WoW there will always be some class that is OP or that needs to be nerfed.

These are pretty much my feelings exactly. Been playing the game over a mont now and I'm still having a ton of fun with it. The game has some issues but they've already fixed enough of the big ones quickly and thoroughly (the mail system fix was excellent) that I have confidence in Mythic to fix the rest. They've been doing solid hotfixes every other day or so, and they've all fixed what they set out to. There was a hotfix this morning that's supposed to fix some of the crashes to desktop, but I haven't had a chance to try it out myself.

The biggest imbalance right now is, I think, what Novasatori mentioned: Chaotic Rift and Electromagnet. Not really an imbalance, i guess, since both sides have equal access to it, but it really is the one of the most bullshit PvP tactic in the history of MMOs.

For those who don't know: magi and engis get a Mastery spell (think talent) that sucks all enemies within 65 feet (very large range, the longest range spells in the game are 100 feet) into a point in front of them magus/engineer. They then root them, do an AE knockdown if they're Destro, then AE the crap out of everyone. It's such an effective tactic that the only reason not to use it is because you don't have someone in your group with the spell. Pretty much the definition of overpowered. It's also an instant cast spell on a 20 second cooldown, with no limit on the number of people it can affect. Also, it currently ignores LOS so you can suck people through keep doors and walls.

I do think they'll fix it soon, though, and the screaming about it will only get worse as more people get to the upper reaches of tier 3 and into tier 4. The idea behind the spell was a good one, breaking standoffs, but they just made it too powerful. Maybe lowering the range to 30 and raising the cooldown to 2 minutes or so would fix it. Who knows?

On the whole, though, the game has an extremely solid foundation. The basic gameplay is solid, the balance between melee and ranged classes is pretty good, especially compared to Conan. Siege weaponry and keeps work extremely well and are a lot of fun. RvR in general is fast-paced but not too fast; as a healer, I feel like I have time to get heals out and keep people alive, but the fights never seem like they last forever and are taking too long. Honestly, I don't think I've ever had as much playing a healer as I'm having in WAR.

 

[Beev]

EVERY MMO will have OP classes. ALWAYS. And you're a fool if you think any MMO will ever be different.

 

[Scrimmy]

Originally posted by: Beev
EVERY MMO will have OP classes. ALWAYS. And you're a fool if you think any MMO will ever be different.

I'd agree. The question really is how unbalanced they are and how game-breaking it is. The very recent Age of Conan game us a great example of one of the most ridiculously overpowered classes in an MMO, where a single class combined the most powerful damage, healing, and CC in the game. I have no idea where it is now because I quit right at the end of the free month, but at the time, Tempests of Set were completely ridiculous, with Priests of Mitra a bit behind and pretty much everyone at least a good distance behind that.

Powerful classes will always be around; it's just a matter of how unbalancing they become and, probably more importantly, how frustrating that class makes it for everyone else. It's one thing if a class is seen as hugely powerful but is still represented proportionally in the overall population (think Warlocks in WoW), but it's another matter entirely when all other classes eventually end up re-rolling as the overpowered class, as people were doing in AoC already when I quit.

 

[hpkeeper]

Sorry, I have not kept up with this thread, but how does the end game of WAR compare to WoW?

I got tired of WoW because I was constantly committed to putting in like 4-5 hours a night during the week just so my guild could complete raids.

What's the story with Raiding in WAR if it even exists? and is there going to be that much time commitment if I do choose to raid?

Love to hear your thoughts.

 

[Malladine]

Blizzard has good ideas in WoW now and again, creative stuff, but i'm afraid, and this is just imo, that the direction they've taken the game (grind to get gear, to beat x, to get gear, to beat x, to get gear, to beat x) is too well established to hope for any significant change.

Mythic seem to want to take a different direction. It's far too early to tell yet what that direction in a large scale but it should be interesting! Certainly we know that RvR (pvp) is the focus, over PvE. Perhaps a blend of the two, PvE goals with each side able to prevent the other through PvP! I've already seen this in the earlier game at least.

The end game as it is in Warhammer is just the beginning, of that i'm certain

 

[drebo]

Honestly, as far as this discussion about "overpowered", etc, goes, I don't think it's fair to call Engies and Maguses overpowered. The spell they have is worthless outside of group situations, which is most of the time, granted, but still. The fact is that both Engies and Maguses could use a little help as far as their other dynamics are concerned. Both classes are interesting, but neither is really up to snuff as far as some of the other classes are concerned, and Mythic almost never nerfs anything...they'll always provide buffs to the other classes to bring them up to par.

Now, compared to something like a Bright Wizard or an Ironbreaker, engies and maguses just aren't up to snuff. Both are squishy, both are utility characters and don't have much damage. BWs and IBs, on the other hand, do significant damage, are pretty tough to take down, and have utility. IBs are by far the best tank in the game and BWs are the best utility/damage caster in the game. Relative to them, I think Maguses and Engies are not nearly as damaging to RvR as the imbalances that BWs and IBs bring to the table.

 

[Keeper]

Originally posted by: drebo
Honestly, as far as this discussion about "overpowered", etc, goes, I don't think it's fair to call Engies and Maguses overpowered. The spell they have is worthless outside of group situations, which is most of the time, granted, but still. The fact is that both Engies and Maguses could use a little help as far as their other dynamics are concerned. Both classes are interesting, but neither is really up to snuff as far as some of the other classes are concerned, and Mythic almost never nerfs anything...they'll always provide buffs to the other classes to bring them up to par.

Now, compared to something like a Bright Wizard or an Ironbreaker, engies and maguses just aren't up to snuff. Both are squishy, both are utility characters and don't have much damage. BWs and IBs, on the other hand, do significant damage, are pretty tough to take down, and have utility. IBs are by far the best tank in the game and BWs are the best utility/damage caster in the game. Relative to them, I think Maguses and Engies are not nearly as damaging to RvR as the imbalances that BWs and IBs bring to the table.

As a young Magus.... I conquer... I have EVERY skill... Every upgrade (level 12)
In PQ.... I dont die... Why.... Cause I am watching tanks pull argo like NO tomorrow..
Why? Cause they are dealing a "TON o damage". In my last T1 PQ, we all grouped through the initial chapters... Final Chapter..
I dropped my pink Horror... Drank a potion.... And waited... I was level 11.. Like I said.. NEVER died once. And in the initial chapters. Neither did my tanks.
Final chapter.
I watched 2 tanks, each of who died once in the final battle...
SMOKE me in contribution awards points (Whatever they are called). Then, to pound a lil salt in my errrr Wound..
I ROLLED A 5 Crap bag for me.....:disgust:

 

[ggnl]

Originally posted by: Keeper

Originally posted by: drebo
Honestly, as far as this discussion about "overpowered", etc, goes, I don't think it's fair to call Engies and Maguses overpowered. The spell they have is worthless outside of group situations, which is most of the time, granted, but still. The fact is that both Engies and Maguses could use a little help as far as their other dynamics are concerned. Both classes are interesting, but neither is really up to snuff as far as some of the other classes are concerned, and Mythic almost never nerfs anything...they'll always provide buffs to the other classes to bring them up to par.

Now, compared to something like a Bright Wizard or an Ironbreaker, engies and maguses just aren't up to snuff. Both are squishy, both are utility characters and don't have much damage. BWs and IBs, on the other hand, do significant damage, are pretty tough to take down, and have utility. IBs are by far the best tank in the game and BWs are the best utility/damage caster in the game. Relative to them, I think Maguses and Engies are not nearly as damaging to RvR as the imbalances that BWs and IBs bring to the table.

As a young Magus.... I conquer... I have EVERY skill... Every upgrade (level 12)
In PQ.... I dont die... Why.... Cause I am watching tanks pull argo like NO tomorrow..
Why? Cause they are dealing a "TON o damage". In my last T1 PQ, we all grouped through the initial chapters... Final Chapter..
I dropped my pink Horror... Drank a potion.... And waited... I was level 11.. Like I said.. NEVER died once. And in the initial chapters. Neither did my tanks.
Final chapter.
I watched 2 tanks, each of who died once in the final battle...
SMOKE me in contribution awards points (Whatever they are called). Then, to pound a lil salt in my errrr Wound..
I ROLLED A 5 Crap bag for me.....:disgust:

1. You can't objectively rate any class at lvl 12.

2. The OPness of the Magus is based on a single skill (chaotic rift) that you dont have yet.

3. Almost everyone agrees that the magus is pretty underpowered except for chatic rift.