Water cooling for a 3500+

[imported_Intolerance]

Ive got a amd64 3500+, and Im looking to cool it better with liquid. I dont really know about it much, ive got someone thats going to help me, but i want to get the right parts, tell me your recommendations and why you would get it. Ive got a Coolermaster Wavemaster and a Abit AV8 motherboard. I want a cpu block, a vga block for my 6800ultra, and whatever else that is needed. I want to overclock it past the 235x11 ive got it at. I can go farther if I put the multiplier up to 11, but I want the fsb increasement over raw speed. Thank you.

 

[Xatrix]

Im scared to death of watercooling but I did a TON of reading about it yesterday over at Overclock.com and also I read a lot here:

Check this site out for the basics

 

[iamtrout]

Have you looked at www.procooling.com? I would say that this is one of the best places for info on watercooling, along with http://www.overclockers.com/.

For now, you need a budget and something of a plan. Are you up for some Do-It-Yourself building or do you want to pay a premium for a kit?

 

[Xatrix]

Oh and also "Ancient 1" over there had this to say on another thread:



"The best block out now is the G4 by Cathar and the soon to be released limited production G5 (a more complex version of the G4 mahe in pure fine silver) but they need to be mounted with bolts through the MB (both will have a waiting period of atleast a month and probably more since he does these as a hobby and not a buisness).

The best block that doesnt need to be mounted with bolts is the Swiftech MCW6002.

For the pump the Iwaki md20RZ or 30RZ (has more head/pressure but puts over twice the amount of pump heat into the water I'm not sure if worth the tradeoff) are probably the best AC pumps to use for WC

The other way to go would be DC pumps of which I would suggest 2-D4 Laings in series or if you want just a single pump the MCP600/AquaXtreme 50Z (will perform marginally better than a single D4 in most systems) or the Laing D4/MCP650.

For the Radiator it is a more difficult choice. It depends on amount of room and the fans used. If you use powerfull fans (noisey) the heatercores with shrouds are hard to beat. If you use quieter fans the Black Ice series and Thermochill series rads (two and three fan models) can be a better choice. Total frontal area is probably the most important factor followed closely by fin surface area as to which is best for the application. For quiet fans the thermochill (120.3) and Black Ice pro series (BIPIII) would probably be best. For a moderate fan the Thermochill 120.3 or the Black Ice Extreme III would probably be a best choice. And for powerfull fans the Dbl heater cores would probably be a best choice."

 

[iamtrout]

You shouldn't be scared of watercooling. If done right, you should be able to throw the loop against the wall without it bursting (figuratively speaking). The water is very tightly contained within the loop, so there should never be a single leak unless something goes horribly wrong, like your kid takes a knife to it or something.

 

[Xatrix]

I think I am more scared to try it more than anything. I'm not a very good "technical" person. I understand how it works, I just am not good at building stuff.

Plus, I don't really think that I am going to really need to utilize WC.

The system I am tentatively planning on building is going to be a 939 nforce4 SLI w/ 2 gfx cards.

Also, I dont know jack about oc'ing, and from what I have seen, its not really worth the risk to payoff ratio.

Maybe I am wrong. Feel free to try to convince me I am wrong. I would LOVE to try to Overclock and Watercool if I had a really good reason to.

 

[iamtrout]

Risks? Huh? There are no risks as far as I'm concerned. The heat and burning out issue isn't a risk because your cooling system should be able to handle it, and you should have temperature monitoring software alerting you to abnormal temperatures in the rare case when heatsinks aren't mounted right, pump dies, etc, and shutting the computer off for you if you're not there to manually do it. Now, there may be a risk in the form of wear and tear from overclocking, but that's a very long term thing.

I think not overclocking is a form of waste. Even if you have stock cooling on everything, you can still safely push your hardware a bit further (and in rare cases, a lot further.) If you can do that safely and without investing in any extra cooling, might as well do it.

 

[Xatrix]

Well I'm still catching up on how it works and how to do it. It seems like an enormous task that I am hestitant to get into. I really like the look and the possibilities it gives you... just kinda worries me is all.

 

[willfreund]

Grab a resertor, It has 4 steps to complete, and even if you had no instruction book like me (split water on it), you can just hook it up by looking at the picture on the box

 

[Xatrix]

A resitor?

 

[HardWarrior]

This is what I'm going to use on my 64 this Christmas. This is the best option for the 6800 series that I've seen so far in that it actively cools the video RAM as well. I'm ordering one Monday. Why? Because I've been very satisfied with my current CPU block from Dangerden and their support is just as good as their build-quality. Since you're new, make it your business to look around for a while before you pull the trigger. You may indeed be able to find something that appeals to you more.

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: willfreund
Grab a resertor, It has 4 steps to complete, and even if you had no instruction book like me (split water on it), you can just hook it up by looking at the picture on the box

A Reserator you mean? I wouldn't consider that unit so much water-cooling as a silent fan replacer. Don't get me wrong. If it suits your ends, fine. But to suggest it as a "water-cooling" option for a hot gamer rig is a bit much.

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: iamtrout
Have you looked at www.procooling.com? I would say that this is one of the best places for info on watercooling, along with http://www.overclockers.com/.

For now, you need a budget and something of a plan. Are you up for some Do-It-Yourself building or do you want to pay a premium for a kit?

Having spent a fair amount of time at pro-cooling I would have to disagree. Other than some excellent FAQ's, the forum is stuffed with people who do things ONE WAY and don't want to hear anything different, and WILL get nasty about it. It simply isn't the place to be if you have a brain and ego all your own. As for overclockers, it has some truly great articles on every aspect of WC, and like you I recommend it.

 

[iamtrout]

Well, the thing with procooling is that it's filled with engineers. I definitely agree that they like to do things one way because that is the engineering way. There must be data/graphs to support claims. Testing must be done a certain way because only in this way will one get the most objective results. As far as pushing for doing things one way and only one way, I tend to find that they justify their reasons very well scientifically. They're just not all that great at putting their objections softly, especially "unregistered" (aka BillA, "Beware, He's Grumpy")

Overclockers, on the other hand, has some truly excellent, technical articles, but sometimes I get the feeling that there are a lot of immature "OMG STFU n00b"-like teens there without the technical, engineering backgrounds that the procooling people have.

But either way, there's good advice and good people in both forums.

I agree that the reserator thing is not that great. Besides being external, big, expensive, and tall, it basically automatically makes your computer non-portable, meaning no more LANs unless you want to swap in a HSF each time you take it to LAN, and then you won't be able to impress friends with your overclock

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: iamtrout
Well, the thing with procooling is that it's filled with engineers. I definitely agree that they like to do things one way because that is the engineering way. There must be data/graphs to support claims. Testing must be done a certain way because only in this way will one get the most objective results. As far as pushing for doing things one way and only one way, I tend to find that they justify their reasons very well scientifically. They're just not all that great at putting their objections softly, especially "unregistered" (aka BillA, "Beware, He's Grumpy")

Overclockers, on the other hand, has some truly excellent, technical articles, but sometimes I get the feeling that there are a lot of immature "OMG STFU n00b"-like teens there without the technical, engineering backgrounds that the procooling people have.

But either way, there's good advice and good people in both forums.

There are engineers there, yes. I'd imagine there are a few here as well, along with a collection of people from all disiplines who aren't dumb and don't have to shut up because an engineer says BOO. I'm glad we agree on the general tone there, but I don't see "one way" as the engineering way. For technology to grow you need new people willing to try\buy new things. That can't happen if most new blood is immediately beaten down, and told that anything new "is teh suck" and that to be acknowledged they have to toe the line. If you remember the Reserator argument you know what I'm talking about. It wouldn't be so bad at PC if the mods didn't reinforce some of the most arrogant and condescending behavior there. But they do.

As for you touting scientific methodolgy as an excuse for rude, close-minded behavior, sorry that doesn't hold water. I spent a few months there and frankly I didn't see any thing that comes close to what you're describing. I mentioned once that, even though I use hose clamps, I would be willing to entertain the idea that they might not be needed, as did Cathar. I was immediatley set upon by one of the forum goons for giving "bad advice." Stupidly, he even asked me if I was willing to pay for any "newbie" boxes that were ruined due to advice I NEVER gave. I, of course, defended myself AND notified the mods. For my trouble I was banned for "arguing" and not contacting a mod about the problem, which I HAD done.

Yes, there are good people in both places, but just the fact that you're willing to tolerate the way people like BillA and Greenman behave, it's obvious that we view water-cooling from different perspectives. We aren't going to agree on what is or isn't a good environment for new people to learn. Which is fine.

 

[iamtrout]

Hmm... sorry to hear about your bad experiences. I've been a member for around three years and I guess I never felt the negative jist. I agree that the replies you got from the no hose clamp comment were unacceptable. Yes, BillA and Greenman are really, really irritating ALWAYS, but I have to have a bit of respect for them (at least BillA), for making Swiftech's great products at an equally great price for people like me who simply cannot afford and wait for anything from Cathar, great as his products are.

For me it's all about sifting intelligently through the bad ideas and the good ideas. Some new ideas will suck, and people will point out why, but there's certainly nothing wrong with new ideas and trying new designs. I don't condone the rude behavior of some of procooling's members. But then again I won't go against anything that has been justified with good data.

Sorry, I definitely didn't mean this to be a flame or anything of the sort between procooling and overclockers.

 

[IEC]

Originally posted by: Xatrix
I think I am more scared to try it more than anything. I'm not a very good "technical" person. I understand how it works, I just am not good at building stuff.

Plus, I don't really think that I am going to really need to utilize WC.

The system I am tentatively planning on building is going to be a 939 nforce4 SLI w/ 2 gfx cards.

Also, I dont know jack about oc'ing, and from what I have seen, its not really worth the risk to payoff ratio.

Maybe I am wrong. Feel free to try to convince me I am wrong. I would LOVE to try to Overclock and Watercool if I had a really good reason to.

I'd go with Zalman's watercooling kit just because it's silent

Mix 30% isopropyl alcohol and 70% water for the WC system and you'll get no algae/bacteria/etc in your water and you'll get better performance... more chance for leaks though because of the alcohol, but it should be fine.

 

[HardWarrior]

Don't be sorry trout, and no apoligies are needed. You haven't done or said anything wrong.

We are, like I said, very different people. BillA could have a cure for cancer and I'd jump right in his ass with both feet if he tried to patronize or otherwise abuse me for simply existing.

 

[iamtrout]

Good to know

Well, back to the topic. Yeah, go watercooling!

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: ariafrost

Originally posted by: Xatrix
I think I am more scared to try it more than anything. I'm not a very good "technical" person. I understand how it works, I just am not good at building stuff.

Plus, I don't really think that I am going to really need to utilize WC.

The system I am tentatively planning on building is going to be a 939 nforce4 SLI w/ 2 gfx cards.

Also, I dont know jack about oc'ing, and from what I have seen, its not really worth the risk to payoff ratio.

Maybe I am wrong. Feel free to try to convince me I am wrong. I would LOVE to try to Overclock and Watercool if I had a really good reason to.

I'd go with Zalman's watercooling kit just because it's silent

Mix 30% isopropyl alcohol and 70% water for the WC system and you'll get no algae/bacteria/etc in your water and you'll get better performance... more chance for leaks though because of the alcohol, but it should be fine.

Why not do it the easy way and add a few drops of biocide? It lasts longer and keeps your coolant in specs. Are you saying that adding rubbing alchohol improves distilled waters' natural wetting\thermal transfer abilities?