Water Cooling Help

[semlethe3rd]

I currently own an Antec 900 with 8 fans running all the time, which sounds like a jet. I realize the case isn't a great case for water cooling but i enjoy modding cases and wouldn't mind putting the time into it. What i am looking for is to decrease the amount of noise im generating but keep the same level of cooling, if not improve it. I am new to water cooling so I need suggestions on a list of things to buy that will cool both my CPU and GPU. My budget for this project is around $500 maybe more if its needed, but less is certainly better =) Any parts list suggested will be greatly appreciated, thank you!

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

Dremmel kit, 1" spade bit drill, 1" rubber grommets, 7/16 ID tubing, 1/2" barbs, EK Supreme LT or regular version: or the Koolance CPU 350 that Aigo uses, MCR Swiftech 320, pump and res is by preference; the two pumps I own are the 355 & a 655 with variable speed control (cuts down on noise) the 355 works best with the Top Reservoir. It actually screws on to the pump and is a very good setup. The 655 will require a separate reservoir. I chose the Micro Res Ver.2 for the 655 setup... which is still sitting after 4 months, but I love it still

Do not mix metals. Use copper with copper etc. Distilled water works the best. The copper has anti-algae properties but if you want to mix in the silver coil, which is actually silver in material, it is THEE best anti algae deterrent on the periodic table to use.

 

[semlethe3rd]

Thanks for the response! Im looking up the parts you mentioned the best i can, do you mind posting links to individual parts? I know its a bit to ask for, but if you dont mind it would be much appreciated. I have a dremmel kit and a 1" spade drill bit so no links for those are needed =). Thanks in advance!

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

Here is a good place to start looking for parts. Its a list of stores with some explanations by them from an XS forum thread on water cooling. Really good stuff.

If you need more help, i'll do the foot work for the links. Let me know.

EDIT: Try this too.

 

[PCTC2]

For parts, in the US, jab-tech.com and sidewindercomputers.com are good sites to start looking. What GPU and CPU are you looking to cool? You're going to have a nice challenge ahead of you to fit in a radiator and any drive bays you use. Let us know what GPU and we'll help you out.

 

[semlethe3rd]

First off i would like to say thank you guys so much for the help so far, I posted on another forum and you wouldn't believe how unhelpful people are.

Here are my system specs:
Q6600 @ 3.8ghz
Abit IP35-E
EVGA GTX 280 FTW
Gskill 2x2GB 1333mhz
Corsair 620HX
Modded Antec 900

I realize the antec 900 is going to be a challenge but honestly i kind of like the thought of it =). I currently only have one drive bay in holding two 1TB Seagates.

BTRY B 529TH FA BN i've looked at the links u posted and they have been very helpful in learning more, ill probably continue using it as i go, thank you =).

Currently im thinking MCR Swiftech 320, Koolance CPU 350, Swiftech MCP655, and Swiftech MCRES Micro Rev 2 reservoir. Pretty much the parts you suggested =). Can someone point me to links for good tubing and the other components ill need including a full graphics card cooler.

Any suggestions on where to mount the components in my case would also be appreciated =), thank you guys again!

 

[Beanie46]

First off i would like to say thank you guys so much for the help so far, I posted on another forum and you wouldn't believe how unhelpful people are. [/q[


Well, if it was at XS, I'm not entirely surprised. Most of the truly helpful ones have quietly disappeared leaving the "better-than-thou" flamers in charge, who expect newbies to watercooling to magically figure everything out by themselves by just reading and never asking questions.

Originally posted by: semlethe3rd

Here are my system specs:
Q6600 @ 3.8ghz
Abit IP35-E
EVGA GTX 280 FTW
Gskill 2x2GB 1333mhz
Corsair 620HX
Modded Antec 900

Currently im thinking MCR Swiftech 320, Koolance CPU 350, Swiftech MCP655, and Swiftech MCRES Micro Rev 2 reservoir. Pretty much the parts you suggested =). Can someone point me to links for good tubing and the other components ill need including a full graphics card cooler.

Any suggestions on where to mount the components in my case would also be appreciated =), thank you guys again!

First, dump the idea of the Koolance 350. While an excellent cpu cooler, it is a pressure and flow killer and belongs in a cooling loop all to itself....no other cooling pieces/blocks in the loop, unless you're using a super pump like an Iwaki.

For a cpu cooler for your quad, an HK 3.0 would be an excellent choice.....very low flow and pressure drop from using it. Hard to find in stock, but worth the price.

Copper topped version......amazingly, it's in stock!

POM topped version of the HK 3.0...same internals as the copper topped version above, but friendlier price. Again, it's in stock!!!


For radiator, the Swiftech MCR series is a great choice, esp. for a budget build. But I'd also recommend looking into the XSPC RX series. A tad better cooling performance than the Swiftech MCR series, esp. with lower CFM fans.

XSPC RX360 rad......worth a long look and consideration.


For the pump, the 655 is a good choice. Just make sure you have the space....it is somewhat large.....and you buy the vario version. That's the adjustable version. The non-vario is speed locked to what is position 4 on the vario, and the vario version goes beyond to speed 5. A little more money, but worth it.

Another pump very much worth consideration is the MCP355. Add an XSPC or EK top to that pump and you have one that really is a better performer than the 655. And the added tops allow you to use any barb/fitting that exists on the market, as long as it uses the "standard" G1/4 threads.

But, I beg you.....if you're thinking of adding a full cover video card cooler to your loop later, FORGET the Koolance 350. The loop won't flow enough to do both!

Good luck and ask any questions you have.


Oh.....other places to look for parts:

Performance PC's.....huge selection!

FrozenCPU.....big selection but the most expensive place.

Petra's......one of the best, but stock is iffy sometimes. Have bought a lot from here.

Jab-Tech.....another excellent seller with great prices, selection is a bit more limited than Performance PC's though. Huge fan selection.

Sidewinder Computers....again, an excellent source of parts. Selection is getting better there all the time! Bought quite a bit here, too.

 

[semlethe3rd]

Alright so looking at all your suggestions i do have a few questions. Will there be a difference in performance between the copper and POM topped cpu coolers? I tried to look for a review but couldn't find one, ill keep looking for now =). I did read a review where the XSPC RX series radiator and it beat the Swiftech, and im not trying to be cheap so XSPC RX360 it is =). For the pump can you suggest a specific top? I was looking but not sure exactly what im looking for, figured you might have your own preference. Also do you have any suggestions for the full video card cover? and will the pump be able to support both a cpu and gpu like that or will i need another pump? Thanks so far and sorry for all the questions, this is truely my first time with water cooling and i dont wanna buy pointless parts =)

 

[Beanie46]

Don't be sorry for the questions......and it's not like I've been doing watercooling all my life. Far from it....but have had at least one system under water for almost 3 years now and in several different configurations. (It's an infective hobby that conspires to empty your wallet and bank account as fast as you can fill it.)

There has been shown to be no difference between the copper topped HK 3.0 and the POM topped version. The only difference is the top.....the internals are exactly the same and both will perform identically. The difference is in the cost and weight, with the copper top version weighing a lot more. Then there is the bling aspect, and quite a few people like the copper look over the POM. Personally, I'm a bit cheap sometimes and I bought the POM version. I've got it on a Q9550 running at 3.8GHz right now @ 1.2V, and it holds idle temps right around 30C, sometimes a degree higher, sometimes a degree or two lower. My pump is a DDC2, or the MCP355, but the older version. What's out there is the newer DDC3.2, but still called the MCP355, well....as long as you're looking at the Swiftech branded version.

(I know this is confusing......Swiftech, Danger Den, and other sellers rebrand Laing pumps under their names. The two pumps rebranded are the Laing D5---Swiftech calls it the MCP655, and the Laing DDC3.1 and DDC3.2---Swiftech calls these the MCP355 10W and 18W versions respectively. Danger Den does the same thing.)

On my DDC2 pump, I'm using an XSPC top. It's a very popular top and gives a good performance boost. The best top, though, is still an XSPC top but the reservoir XSPC top for the MCP355 pump.
Here's an XSPC reservoir top for the DDC3.1/3.2 pump.

This top is probably the most used and best addition to be put on top of a DDC/MCP355 pump.....highly recommended.

As for full cover blocks for video cards, it's very variable. A lot depends upon whether your GTX 260 is a reference or non-reference design, what price range you want to stay in, etc.

Personally, I've purposely avoided video card cooling blocks since, almost without exception, what you buy for one card will not fit the new card you'll invariably buy when you upgrade, making it necessary to repurchase a new video card cooler and then have to sell the old one.

And reselling a video card top tends to make you eat a lot of your investment.....as in you lose at least 1/3 of what you paid, maybe up to half. I did it once, then resisted the temptation when I upgraded video cards....twice in 6 months. Just couldn't stomach spending $100+ over and over for new full cover blocks when I upgrade video cards at least every year....sometimes more often.

At the same time, I've upgraded cpus, too, and my cpu block just transferred from old to new cpu. MY HK will even move to a Socket 1366 when I move to that.....HK has a mount kit to change the mounts to fit the new socket. So, my investment in my cpu block will be long lasting. GPU full cover blocks, on the other hand, rarely are long lasting.

Anyway, given that diatribe, HK gpu blocks are the hot item. EK blocks are quite popular, too, as are Koolance. My suggestion is to read, especially on XS's forums, see what's working for most people with your particular card, then make your decision.


Tubing......the brand most tend to recommend these days is Primochill Primoflex Pro LRT. Clouds the least in use, good flexibility, has anti-microbe properties.
This the exact tubing I'm currently using....good bend radius, love the stuff.


An HK 3.0 cpu block with an XSPC RX radiator, an MCP355 18W pump with the XSPC reservoir top is an excellent setup and will easily stand adding a video card block to the loop. But be aware, gpu's run hot and adding the gpu to the loop will raise your idle temps of your cpu a tad. If you are planning to add a video card to the loop, I'd really suggest looking at the RX480 radiator instead of the RX360......you'll have extra cooling capacity you will be definitely need and use when you add the gpu to the loop.

But, please, inquire with others about this. Aigo is the expert around here.....I'm just a hobbyist.

 

[PCTC2]

As for pump, the XSPC top is the best IMO for the Swiftech MCP355 pump.
For a GPU block, you can pick up a DangerDen or EK-FC GTX 280 block.
GPU, the HK 3.0 is a great block, but you can also look at the Swiftech Apogee GTZ and the D-Tek Fuzion2, both are low-restriction enough for a GPU and a CPU in the same loop. You can try to mount the radiator up front behind 3x fans, but you won't be able to have optical bays and you'll have to ghetto-mod a HDD mount. The XSPC RX360 is a great radiator.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

I would go with the 355 and Top Res, they leave a small footprint in the taking up of space. They fit together nicely in a one piece lookin component where as the 655 and micro require a little more creativity. I stopped with my PC60 and the 655 micro res setup.. i need more than a shoe horn for it... btw, the XS forums are on some crappy program that runs it. I never get updates to when there are replies. There isn't a message indicator like Anandtech has on the side of the page... anyways, good luck if you go searching for answers there. No Offense XS - still love yous

 

[semlethe3rd]

Alright so the current setup looks as follows according to your recommendations so far:

HK 3.0 cpu block
XSPC RX360
MCP355 18W pump with the XSPC reservoir top
Primochill Primoflex Pro LRT tubing

Thank all of you for the help so far!

Beanie46, you have me rethinking if i want to bother with a gpu block or not. It sounds like something thats going to make me spend more money each time i upgrade my graphics card, which isn't very desirable. Im thinking i may wait till i upgrade my 280 and try a gpu block on the updated gracphics card. And about your suggestion to use a RX480 radiator if i want to cool my gpu also, there is no room in my case or outside really to mount a quad radiator like that, its length is larger than my case =P And im hoping to keep my computer as stylish as i can through this proccess. You also said without it my idle CPU temperatures may increase, this means my load CPU temperatures would also increase right?

Also on a side note what else do i need to complete this setup? Barbs and grommets were mentioned, where can i find these items and what would you suggest getting =)

 

[Beanie46]

Fittings for the tubing are personal choice.

Some people like compression fittings, like these:
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/coandro.html


A specific compression fitting, Bitspower 3/8" x 5/8":
http://www.petrastechshop.com/dadencofi3id.html


Upside to them....they are very clean looking connections. Downside......more costly than plain barbs, have to buy specific sizes to fit, not only the ID of your tubing, but also the OD of the tubing. As you can see in the link I provided, they come in sizes like 3.8" x 5/8", or 1/2" x 3/4".


Another way to go is a simple barb, like these:
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/stbareandad.html (There's a mix of barbs and other connectors on this page.)


A specific barb that is quite popular, the Bitspower/Danger Den Fat Boy barbs:
http://www.petrastechshop.com/dadepofbofig1.html


Now, why are the Bitspower/Danger Den FatBoy barbs so popular? Simply because they have the largest ID, or internal diameter, of any barb on the market for a given hose ID size.....such as 3/8" barbs for 3/8" ID tubing, 1/2" barbs for 1/2" ID tubing, etc.

You can follow the link below to see a comparison chart for ID's, OD's, and almost any other measurement for connectors, including barbs, compression fittings, etc.
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/sificoda.html


Also notice, compression fittings, while cool looking and giving a very clean look once assembled, do sacrifice a bit of size in their internal diameter.

Oh, and whatever you do decide upon....do NOT use plastic barbs. Horrible and are a bear to get the tubing off once you've put it on. Not worth the petroleum they were made from.


Clamps are what hold the tubing onto the barb and prevent them from blowing off and letting your coolant splash all over the interior of your computer. Simplest is probably the zip tie. Another common way is the worm drive clamp, just like with automotive hoses. Another way is the spring clamp, again derived from larger automotive clamps.

What I call spring clamps: http://www.performance-pcs.com...=298&products_id=24887 (What I use currently, easy to use, better looking than worm drive clamps, not as "smooth" and/or blingy as using compression fittings.)

Worm drive clamps: http://www.performance-pcs.com...=298&products_id=24420 (Quite possibly the ugliest way but quite effective.)

Another type, plastic, sometimes called the Herbie clamp....not exactly the most popular out there now, although used to be used quite a bit: http://www.performance-pcs.com...h=298&products_id=3909
(Hard to remove sometimes....and plastic...yech!)



And about tubing sizes. While a lot of people push 1/2" ID tubing, be aware that the OD on decent 1/2" tubing, probably 7/16" or 3/4", makes it a rather large tubing. I use 3/8" x 5/8" LRT. Why? the 1/8" wall of the tubing really resists kinks, even in very tight bends. And it has been shown that the temp differences between using 3/8" ID tubing and 1/2" ID tubing is less than 0.3C. Not exactly an earthshattering difference.....close enough that using the larger 1/2" tubing really doesn't matter much. You can read the research, done by Cathar...one of the poineers in water cooling research and design and well respected (and deservedly so!!).....here: http://www.xtremesystems.org/f...howthread.php?t=147767

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

MasterKleer 7/16" ID 5/8" OD tubing.

O and don't do/buy anything yet until Aigo has reviewed all the parts - seriously

 

[Beanie46]

Trouble is MasterKleer, while cheap, clouds significantly faster than LRT. In fact, in an informal poll at XS, there has really been no one complaining of LRT clouding, something neither MasterKleer nor any other brand so far has shown.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

Clouding comes from dirty water.

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: BTRY B 529th FA BN
1" spade bit drill, 1" rubber grommets

Doesn't the Antec 900 already have two grommeted holes? Got a few at work and I could have sworn...

 

[semlethe3rd]

Yes the antec 900 does have two rubber grommets.

I have an idea that I want to pass by you guys. I was looking over watercooling stuff and saw the Waterkeg III which would fit the radiator i wanted and all my components. How do you guys feel about one of these external boxes? It would sure save me a lot of modding. The only problem with it is i dont know if there still selling that one, cant find it for sale. I could make something along those lines myself though. Do you think it would be as good as having the stuff inside my case?

 

[Beanie46]

Originally posted by: BTRY B 529th FA BN
Clouding comes from dirty water.

Doubt that's the true source, given most clouding is within just a few months with distilled and new setups.

The leading theroy is plasticizer leach from the tubing in combination with chemical present like PT Nuke, esp. with certain formulations of Tygon, and the worst is the 3603 variety. There are other formulations of Tygon that seem to resisit clouding, but they're so inflexible that they are essentially useless for tight bends in typical WC'ing loops.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Originally posted by: Beanie46

Originally posted by: BTRY B 529th FA BN
Clouding comes from dirty water.

Doubt that's the true source, given most clouding is within just a few months with distilled and new setups.

The leading theroy is plasticizer leach from the tubing in combination with chemical present like PT Nuke, esp. with certain formulations of Tygon, and the worst is the 3603 variety. There are other formulations of Tygon that seem to resisit clouding, but they're so inflexible that they are essentially useless for tight bends in typical WC'ing loops.

Sorry for the hijack, but just one quick question.

How about the Tygon A-60-G Black Neoprene tubing? obviously these wont go cloudy seeing as they are not transparent, but are they restrictive when it comes to flexibility?

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

Originally posted by: Beanie46

Originally posted by: BTRY B 529th FA BN
Clouding comes from dirty water.

Doubt that's the true source, given most clouding is within just a few months with distilled and new setups.

The leading theroy is plasticizer leach from the tubing in combination with chemical present like PT Nuke, esp. with certain formulations of Tygon, and the worst is the 3603 variety. There are other formulations of Tygon that seem to resisit clouding, but they're so inflexible that they are essentially useless for tight bends in typical WC'ing loops.

Straight Distilled water will not cloud the tubing. I use distilled water only and I've had mine up for 3 + and it's still clear. If you need pics, I can provide them.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

Originally posted by: Zap

Originally posted by: BTRY B 529th FA BN
1" spade bit drill, 1" rubber grommets

Doesn't the Antec 900 already have two grommeted holes? Got a few at work and I could have sworn...

I think it does, but If you need to drill somewhere else the 1" spade bit drill is one of thee best drill bits when drilling out holes. Plus, those pre-installed holes are not always in the correct placement for some of the widths on the rads.

 

[Beanie46]

Tygon was really not intended for what we use it for, as evidenced in several old threads at XS in which members contacted Tygon and asked for advice on tubing for WC'ing use.

Given that, the Norprene by Tygon, which I guess you're speaking about, is rather stiff (seen with having a 3" bend radius in the 1/2" size) and a very low pressure rating (again, in the 1/2" size it's 5 psi.) Not exactly the best suited for WC use.

Some have had good success with the Tygon B-44-4X tubing, but it's stiff, stiff, stiff. Same with Tygon's silver antimicrobial tubing.

That's why a huge number of WC'ers have migrated to Primochill's Primoflex LRT tubing....designed for watercooling specifically, very flexible with good bend radii, antimicrobial properties, and comes in several colors including black.

I've been through the Masterkleer (it's cheap....its best quality), Tygon in several varieties, and when LRT was released, I moved over to it to try and haven't looked back. Won't change from it unless/until something demonstrably better comes out.

 

[semlethe3rd]

So does anyone have an answer to my external case for my WC setup? Is it a good/bad idea considering my case isn't really meant for WC? And does anyone know where i could even buy a Waterkeg III?

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

Not sure about the external case. With a little creativity and the right tools to modify the case, you can make it happen, believe me! Don't know about the Waterkeg III... AIGO, where are you!?