What IS time?

[Sahakiel]

Originally posted by: deveraux
And for all those saying that time is the 4th dimension, yes I know where you are coming from. However, from what I understand, time being the 4th dimension is the direct consequence of special relativity and from its equations (please correct me if I'm wrong). But keep in mind that this is just a theory and that quantum mechanics supercedes this theory. And therefore, if it is not stated in quantum mechanics or a direct consequence of it, there is still a chance that it isn't true.

Quantum mechanics doesn't supercede general relativity any more than g.r. supercedes q.m. They simply work for different scales. G.r. doesn't work well (or at all, in some cases) for subatomic scales and q.m. doesn't really apply to cosmological scales.

 

[deveraux]

Originally posted by: Sahakiel

Originally posted by: deveraux
And for all those saying that time is the 4th dimension, yes I know where you are coming from. However, from what I understand, time being the 4th dimension is the direct consequence of special relativity and from its equations (please correct me if I'm wrong). But keep in mind that this is just a theory and that quantum mechanics supercedes this theory. And therefore, if it is not stated in quantum mechanics or a direct consequence of it, there is still a chance that it isn't true.

Quantum mechanics doesn't supercede general relativity any more than g.r. supercedes q.m. They simply work for different scales. G.r. doesn't work well (or at all, in some cases) for subatomic scales and q.m. doesn't really apply to cosmological scales.

You are probably right. However, I only said that because from what I know (physics teacher told me), since QM analyzes the subatomic (as you mentioned), that it should supercede GR since you should be able to build up to the cosmological level from the subatomic analysis. I appologise if I made an error and misleaded anyone.

 

[NavJitsU4]

Light and Time are inter-related; If you travel atleast 90% the speed of light you will travel into the future, its called time dialation; If we ever built a craft that would be able to travel that fast and we went on a journey that only lasted 10minutes in flight time when we come back the earth will be about 40 years older!

 

[RichUK]

Time is not an entity, it is a man made measurement/thing to understand a sequence of events, i.e. something to relate to. Intelligent life on other planets (if there is life out there of course), may not recognise what we see as time to be time even if it relates to the same thing ... its really hard to explain, because its the only way we can understand it, basically until something comes along to disprove it we will carry on to believe it ... (e.g. "the world is flat"), although with time I don?t think that is the case, but maybe with regards to the 4th dimension.

Hmm the forth dimension it is really hard to explain, when the brain can not understand but only third dimension.

 

[NarcoticHobo]

If we can represent a 3 dimensional object by drawing it on a 2d object and in 3 d space but not on a 1d plane would it not follow that 1) it is possible to represent a 4d object comprehensible to us and 2) in order to do so it would have to be a model as opposed to a picture.

I only say this because of the discussion of time as the 4d and I remember once seeing a graphical representation of a "4d object".

 

[Keill]

I think the best way to describe time is simply to say:

Hours, minutes and seconds are to time, what kilometers, meters, and centimeters are to distance...

Except of course we don't have much choice about which way and how fast we travel in time, (at least at this moment in time, anyway).

Keill

 

[sonz70]

To visualize a 4 dimensional object, think about it this way, a three dimensional object, that can go to any point in time. It would be like how we look at 2d object. Imagine, a 2d person, thinking of 3d, he would be thinking a 3d person who can see all of 2d worlds, depth ect, because we can. a 4dimensional object, can exist at any point in time, since they are part of time. (Simple visualization a person, in a room, can look out at windows and see all difference parts of time, chose one and exist and that one, gets bored, leaves and goes to another one)


*Is probally totally wrong, but what came into my head when I tried to visualize it*

 

[Darien]

Time from motion; Motion from time. You can't get away from connecting them. You can say time is an element used to describe motion, or vice-versa. What you're looking for is the reason to why we live in and perceive dimensions. :beer: if you ever find the answer.

EDIT: forgot a word

 

[newmenu]

Time is equal to the mesurement of a distance traveled divided by the rate of which that distance was traveled T=D/R

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: sonz70
To visualize a 4 dimensional object, think about it this way, a three dimensional object, that can go to any point in time. It would be like how we look at 2d object. Imagine, a 2d person, thinking of 3d, he would be thinking a 3d person who can see all of 2d worlds, depth ect, because we can. a 4dimensional object, can exist at any point in time, since they are part of time. (Simple visualization a person, in a room, can look out at windows and see all difference parts of time, chose one and exist and that one, gets bored, leaves and goes to another one)


*Is probally totally wrong, but what came into my head when I tried to visualize it*

Bah. To visualize a 4 dimensional object, first visualize an N-dimensional object and then let N go to 4.

 

[Comanche]

The first 3 dimension all explain the characteristics of an object, the fourth, time desciribes when that object occurs.

Think of a can on a table, you can say how tall it is, how wide it is, what the radius is, but without time you cannot say when that object is.

Time is integral with everything. As the previous post said, take away time and from our perspective things would disappear. However, in order to travel forward in time a person has to exceed the speed of light, not 90% of it. You would have to travel faster than the speed of light, which is also tied into time. This makes time travel of this kind impossible because as objects move they pick up mass. As something approaches the speed of light it's mass becomes so great that it goes off the scale. The Theory of time travel is such that there are holes or rips in space time that might allow an object to pass through, which might be a shortcut to another place and time. Star Trek the next generation is a good example.

 

[Muse]

Time is a man-made abstract thing. It doesn't exist in reality, which is always in the present. IOW, it's always NOW. So, Time is Man's invention. You might call it an illusion. Time Travel is doubly an illusion, pretty much a silly idea and I don't know why it even crept into this thread. Crept, hardly, it appeared (I believe) in the second post and most of the immediately succeeding posts took it up, can't imagine why. Now, I did just buy the Back to the Future Trilogy, which I thought highly entertaining when I saw them some years ago, so I'm willing to mess with the idea of time travel on that level, but as a subject for science fiction, I feel it's been used as a cheap trick in general. Those movies are funny and farcical, not the _serious_ treatment TT gets in most sci-fi.

Now, if you are really interested in finding out what "time" is, you might want to read Einstein's work on relativity theory!

 

[CuriousJorge]

Ecclesiastes 3:1
1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

The purpose of time has been a process of completion, an unfolding of events, part of an eternal existenceGenesis1:4-5
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

To men a period of a year has been represented by one full revolution around the sun. This period is also represented by 365 evenings and mornings = 1 year. Being that a year is comprised of 1 complete revolution around the sun, the number 1 can represent a complete number ~ a period of time.
A year is broken down into days, and a day into hours (24) and hours into minutes (60) and minutes into seconds (60) and .ect
Time can be kept track of because of the exactness of creation in that every day by the solar calender is exactly the same period of time. The Mayans new this, and that is why their calender is still to this day in perfect alignment with the cosmos.

Time has from the very beginning been a referrence to spiritual events that have been taking place. The Bible, and nothing more holds truth. Periods of time represented in number of years and days tipify the (if any) the spirtual meaning of the numbers used by defining the event(s) that take place (How long an event lasted, and the nature of the event)
The Bible is the calender of the worlds existence, not only does it give an exact date as to when the earth was created(11,013 BC) but it also is very exact in describing the spirtual events that are now taking place, and the end of the world(the final period of judgment) This news my friends I plead with you to consider, and I say nothing more.

Time has an end. Revelation10:5-7
5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, 6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: 7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Read: Time Has An End / Harold Camping

 

[AluminumStudios]

I scanned four pages out of the book "Elegent Universe" that I think do an exceptional job explaining time. If you're interested in time I strongly suggest reading them:
http://www.aluminumstudios.com/images/elegent_universe01.jpg
http://www.aluminumstudios.com/images/elegent_universe02.jpg

If anyone asks this is how I explain time now.

 

[mrscintilla]

Time is women's greatest fear, men's ultimate enemy, and it will race every single human being into madness and ultimate death because it is an unwinnable nemensis to all. But joy and happiness can freez time as perceived by our feeble limited minds. That's the essense of relativity. As Eistein said it, to spend an hour with a beatuiful woman feels like minutes, and to put a finger on a burning stove feels like hours. We will all lose to Time, so let us live today.

Did I tell you that I am buying a plasma TV soon?

 

[cecallred]

Thanks to you all... I appreciate the input. AluminumStudios, thanks for the links, interesting way to look at it... Time itself is NOT an entity, yet it exists because we accept the illusion of time as concrete in order for us to co-exist on this plane. Existentialism perhaps, but then what isn't?

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: cecallred
Thanks to you all... I appreciate the input. AluminumStudios, thanks for the links, interesting way to look at it... Time itself is NOT an entity, yet it exists because we accept the illusion of time as concrete in order for us to co-exist on this plane. Existentialism perhaps, but then what isn't?

Yeah, I think you've got it. See ya at three...

 

[Chode Messiah]

Time is an entity, for it is influenced by gravity and speed (closer to Speed of Light =time slowing down)

 

[sobriquet]

Originally posted by: Sahakiel
Time is a change in entropy.

Do fluctuations in entropy result in fluctuations in time? If, on a very small scale, entropy decreases in a very small part of the universe, does time travel backwards for that moment?

 

[YHPats]

Time is as much an entity as space.
After all, what is space ?
Neither can exist without the other - they are part of the same phenomonen : - dimensionality.
No time - no space.
Every point in time is unique.
The fact that can't always be detected by the eye creates the illusion of it standing still - and hence, the notion that it could possibly, not even exist.
That it is measured with devices that can stop also adds to this impression - but a timer is just a measurement device.

 

[AluminumStudios]

Originally posted by: YHPats
Time is as much an entity as space.
After all, what is space ?
Neither can exist without the other - they are part of the same phenomonen : - dimensionality.
No time - no space...

I agree. In order to locate something (anything from a person to a comet or a planet) you need 4 pieces of information. It's location on the X, Y, and Z axis as well as the time it is there. Without time everything becomes a big blur because you can't locate anything. Because of that I see time as a 4th direction, an entity which does exist and not just an abstract concept (although the concept of a second is an arbitrary value assigned to measure it.)

 

[YHPats]

To understand the interconnectedness of time, space, mass and energy, think about a space-ship trying to attain light speed (c).
For it to get to c, it's gunna need lots of power.
To generate that power it needs more energy - energy derived from mass.
I'd imagine that to generate the energy required to achieve c, it would need the entire mass of the universe.
IOW, the entire mass of the universe would be converted into energy.
So at the point where c is achieved, the ship passes from present into future - and disappears, because it no longer exists in the present.
Or something like that.

 

[Fullmetal Chocobo]

Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so.
--Douglas Adams

 

[ShadowBlade]

Originally posted by: ElMonoDelMar

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: santaliqueur

Originally posted by: FuZoRBlade
Time itself is actually the 4th dimension, and since traveling through dimmensions is possible, it would follow logically that time travel is possible.

it would logically be possible, but ONLY if we were 4-dimensional beings, which we are not. picture a 2-dimensional man on a plane. he can only imagine length and height, but not depth. when we, the 3-dimensional beings, put our finger through his plane, it appears to him that we are appearing from nowhere, he only sees the cross section of our finger. the same would apply to 4-dimensional beings and our 3-dimensional physical world. the 4d guy could "stick his finger" into our space, and it would appear to come out of nowhere.

*before you tear this theory apart, consider that it did not come from lowly old santa liqueur. it came from dr. michio kaku, world famous physicist.*

CJ

My senior thesis: exploring 4-dimensional "objects" by looking at 3'dimensional cross sections and shadows of those objects. 1 Thesis... hundreds of tylenol for the headaches thinking about it.

I can't even visually grasp the concept of 4 dimensional objects.

thats what happens when you exist in a 3-dimensional world
dont bother trying to imagine it, i tried

 

[imported_Soldier]

Time is not a seperate entity might be a better way to say it. "Time" is used by man as a baseline measurment for space (distance). Time and space cannot exsist without each other.