Discussion What new features do you think we will see in upcoming SSDs?

[cbn]

1. Hybrid Optane/3D QLC NVMe SSDs.

See possible Examples (HBRPEKNX0101A and HBRPEKNX0202A) below:

NOTE: The quote below is not in reference to the SSDs above, but it something to consider.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-optane-memory-qlc-cache,37223.html

Sitting behind high-endurance Optane Memory (cache) will remove any immediate concerns regarding QLC's endurance.

2.) SLC and MLC "Locked Modes" for QLC SSDs?

I bring this up because in some ways the Intel 660p and Crucial P1 3D QLC NVMe SSDs act like small SLC SSDs when they are mostly empty. So it doesn't seem like much of a step to offer the ability to lock the entire drive as either SLC or MLC (2 bit per cell).

 

[TheELF]

Sure there will be hybrid drives but not any more then the ssd/hdd ones that are around for years,they are cool to have but not really all that useful.
The future is actual optane memory and of course you will be able to use it as a cache for bigger drives as well but the big idea is to have your whole OS on one of those. (and whole games down the line when they get cheap enough)
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-optane-persistent-memory-dimms,37150.html

 

[VirtualLarry]

That would be sweet, slot in a 16GB DDR4 DIMM, and a 512GB Persistant 3DXpoint/NVDIMM, into an entry-level mobo with dual DIMM slots, and a nice cheap 8-core CPU (looking at Intel here, a few years in the future), man, even entry-level PC users could be SET.

Edit: Of course, AMD will give you: 1) Twice as many cores, and 2) a tiered / persistant storage solution nearly as good, for 3) half the cost. Those wanting that extra 10% of storage performance, will pay the "Intel Tax", as they have always done.

 

[cbn]

Sure there will be hybrid drives but not any more then the ssd/hdd ones that are around for years,they are cool to have but not really all that useful.
The future is actual optane memory and of course you will be able to use it as a cache for bigger drives as well but the big idea is to have your whole OS on one of those. (and whole games down the line when they get cheap enough)
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-optane-persistent-memory-dimms,37150.html

With Intel releasing (what I believe will be) a hybrid Optane-NAND NVMe SSD I think a possible next step could be a hybrid Optane-NAND NVDIMM-P*. (This would no doubt be cheaper for consumer (and thus released sooner) than a pure Optane DIMM or a NVDIMM-P using just Optane and not NAND.)

In fact, I was wondering if specs for NVDIMM-P were delayed because of that reason.

*This, in addition, to DRAM of course.

P.S. NVDIMM-P is the combining of DRAM and Non-volatile memory on a single DIMM.

 

[TheELF]

2) a tiered / persistant storage solution nearly as good, for 3) half the cost. Those wanting that extra 10% of storage performance, will pay the "Intel Tax", as they have always done.

This won't be just another storage solution,the whole idea is to be able to use the data on the storage without having to do a ton of read and store system calls between memory and disk,this is why you need a CPU that is aware of the fact that it can do this because otherwise you need a software layer to use the storage and the whole point is to not need a software layer.
Instead of
read data from storage to ram
modify data
write data back to storage
the CPU will be able to work on the data in place.

 

[cbn]

According to the chart below Intel's new Teton Glacier AIO (Optane Memory + 3D QLC) M.2 SSD has greater performance in PCMark Vantage HDD than their own 760p 3D TLC SSD (Harris Harbor, which also has more DRAM and a higher performance NAND controller):

So I'll bet Intel is wanting 3D QLC a lot more than they want 3D TLC...... but unfortunately the yields on 3D QLC are poor.

However, I could imagine Intel making 512Gb 3D MLC NAND out of some dies that failed 1024Gb 3D QLC specs. (e.g. Remember how IMFT had 1st Gen 384Gb 3D TLC dies that could also be configured as 256Gb 3D MLC?)

So I wonder if we end up seeing new dedicated 3D MLC consumer (and enterprise) SSDs* because of this? (Right now the only company that makes 3D MLC consumer SSD from current production is Samsung with their 860 Pro and 970 Pro.)

*Rather than just 3D QLC SSDs with a locked 3D MLC (or 3D SLC) mode.

 

[cbn]

Thinking about this more.....

Perhaps HP tuning their EX900 and EX920 3D TLC NVMe SSDs so highly for 4K QD1 Read is a sign the company is gearing up to use 1024Gb 3D QLC as 512Gb 3D MLC?

https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/hp_ex900_500gb_m_2_ssd_review,16.html

HP EX900 500GB

HP EX920 1TB

 

[cbn]

SATA Express SSD (either M.2 or 2.5") with Optane (or Quantx) integrated into the SATA SSD controller allowing it to be used as a replacement for DRAM buffer.

So Optane (or Quantx) being used for not only for NVMe but also a portion of it as a replacement for DRAM buffer.

Maybe Maxio technology is the most likely partner for Intel? This with Silicon Motion. (I bring this up because Maxio technology has already shown a 4TB dram-less SATA SSD using Intel N18A 3D QLC NAND and the MAS0902 controller:

https://www.anandtech.com/show/12944/next-gen-storage-we-found-a-prototype-4-tb-intel-qlc-ssd

With Maxio techology pushing so hard with Intel NAND it would seem the next step would be some integration either MCM or via Intel EMIB:

So think Intel PCIe x 2 Optane controller (or Intel PCIe x 4 Optane controller wired PCIe x2) integrated with Maxio technology SATA SSD controller on M.2 or 2.5" both sharing Optane (with the Intel Optane controller obviously taking the majority of it).

P.S.I believe such a SSD in M.2 form would work in any M.2 slot that has both PCIe x 4 and SATA capability (every recent motherboard I have seen has one of these slots). If I am not mistaken it would run PCIe x 2 and SATA at the same time as AMD motherboard first M.2 PCIe x4 slot would:

 

[Shmee]

I am looking forward to possibly PCIe 4.0 x4 m.2s? That would help with PCIe bandwidth issues on the current m.2 drives.

 

[cbn]

Thinking about the M.2 AIO SSD H10 Optane below (which combines two PCIe x 2 SSDs into one M key M.2 2280 SSD):

Maybe (for additional options) an AIO SSD with just the Optane NVMe built-in and a open M.2 2242 spot for either a PCIe x2 NVMe SSD or a SATA SSD?

Then depending on how a person's motherboard is configured they could either

1.) Run the Optane by itself with the M.2 2242 spot unoccupied.

2.) Combine the built-in Optane with a NAND based NVMe SSD* like the ones in this thread

3.) Combine the built in Optane with a M.2 2242 SATA SSD.

*For motherboards that have M key M.2 Slot with PCIe x 2/PCie x 2 bifurcation.

(I would really like this for SFF desktop builds and laptops where I would use the Optane as a RAM extender. Anyone else?)

EDIT: Or another way to accomplish potentially the same thing would be to have the NAND SSD part built-in and then have a open slot in the M.2 2280 PCB for a separate M.2 2242 NVMe SSD. For maximum capability I would assume SATA SSD for the built-in SSD, but nothing is to stop NVMe NAND from being the built-in part as well.

EDIT 2: Or just a 2 x M.2 to M.2 2280 adapter card? (ie, a M.2 2280 PCB that accepts two M.2 SSDs). This with the 2 x M.2 plug in interface stacked on top of each other or in what is called dual socket (shown below with M.2 wifi as one of the M.2 cards):

Any other ideas?

 

[IntelUser2000]

Sure there will be hybrid drives but not any more then the ssd/hdd ones that are around for years,they are cool to have but not really all that useful.

I think the "hybrid" drives like the Optane H10 are a good starting point because hopefully we'll see the DRAM buffer be replaced by a larger buffer using Optane.

I'm far less sure on RAM and storage being replaced by Optane. Sure it sounds nice, but optimistically we're far away, and pessimistically we may never see such devices.

For Optane, Intel is selling at cost, or even slightly losing money selling them. Volume will help reduce the price but it'll always be more expensive than NAND. I'm a fan of Optane for starting the potential single storage computing, but the product itself if not done well might end up walking the paths of Rambus DRAM.

Optane being used to replace the DRAM buffer in NAND SSDs seems to be so far the best near-term solution at this point.

 

[cbn]

That would be sweet, slot in a 16GB DDR4 DIMM, and a 512GB Persistant 3DXpoint/NVDIMM, into an entry-level mobo with dual DIMM slots, and a nice cheap 8-core CPU (looking at Intel here, a few years in the future), man, even entry-level PC users could be SET.

Edit: Of course, AMD will give you: 1) Twice as many cores, and 2) a tiered / persistant storage solution nearly as good, for 3) half the cost. Those wanting that extra 10% of storage performance, will pay the "Intel Tax", as they have always done.

If you look at the following paper for AMD's EHP the description includes hybrid memory cube with one version of that using both DRAM and non-volatile memory:

https://www.computermachines.org/joe/publications/pdfs/hpca2017_exascale_apu.pdf

I am expecting the non-volatile memory to be 3DXPoint rather than NAND.

(So Micron likely to go high end. However, I have been wondering if Intel develops Optane pin compatible with HBM (starting at third gen of Optane development) that could be used stacked on GPU.)

 

[Shmee]

Any news on PCIE 4 or 5 m.2s?