What? No government shutdown threads?

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michal1980

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2003
8,019
43
91
Do any of you realize just why the Republicans want a one year delay? All the Fox News twits keep talking about compromise ("the Republicans are willing to compromise"), but this is not compromise.

Republicans want the law to be delayed by a year because it makes a great talking point for their base. Delay it one year and every Republican running will claim they will prevent it from ever happening, exciting their base and driving them to the polls. This is exactly the kind of issue they need during a non-presidential election cycle. Republicans are only eyeing control of the Senate, they care nothing about the word "compromise".

Obama already said he would not negotiate with republicans on the debt ceiling. Why aren't you ripping him for not compromising?


Obama will negotiate with Syria, Russia, Iran, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc etc. Republicans? nope.

Yet you on the left are so blinded by party you cant even see that.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,230
701
126
Don't get caught up in a lot of hype over the debt ceiling. We've had 17 "government shutdowns" since 1976 and we're still here. If anything it will help Congress focus on what needs to be done.

It did a wonderful job those other 17 times, judging by the results.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
Do any of you realize just why the Republicans want a one year delay? All the Fox News twits keep talking about compromise ("the Republicans are willing to compromise"), but this is not compromise.

Republicans want the law to be delayed by a year because it makes a great talking point for their base. Delay it one year and every Republican running will claim they will prevent it from ever happening, exciting their base and driving them to the polls. This is exactly the kind of issue they need during a non-presidential election cycle. Republicans are only eyeing control of the Senate, they care nothing about the word "compromise".

ACA was pushed through in the dead of night for the same reason. If it was not done before a congressional recess, it would be DOA after the recess. The poison was starting to reveal as people started seeing what was inside was not what was being sold. Like a vampire, it could not stand the light if day
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,341
16,715
136
Don't get caught up in a lot of hype over the debt ceiling. We've had 17 "government shutdowns" since 1976 and we're still here. If anything it will help Congress focus on what needs to be done.

A government shutdown is not the same thing as not raising the debt ceiling.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
Or should Corporate interests handle you from cradle to grave?

It's about real world choices, not libertopian drivel recited by rote.

People should have a choice, not have it shoved down their throat.

Learn to accept consequences of their actions.

Again, why us it my responsibility to protect others from themselves.

Not mandated in the Constitution. Every one has the opportunity to pursue life liberty and happiness.

It dies not say that I have to give to allow it. Nor does it saw I should be taxed to allow rhem
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
A government shutdown is not the same thing as not raising the debt ceiling.
A shutdown starts to demonstrate the bloat that has occurred and points to where slicing can be done even though the Dems claim the cupboard is bare.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,341
16,715
136
A shutdown starts to demonstrate the bloat that has occurred and points to where slicing can be done even though the Dems claim the cupboard is bare.

No a shutdown demonstrates the inability of congress to work together to get things done, it has nothing to do with bloat.

Last time we heard from the repubs that a shutdown was needed because of government spending getting out of hand, you don't hear a single damn peep about government spending this time around. It's pure politics.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,341
16,715
136
People should have a choice, not have it shoved down their throat.

Learn to accept consequences of their actions.

Again, why us it my responsibility to protect others from themselves.

Not mandated in the Constitution. Every one has the opportunity to pursue life liberty and happiness.I

It dies not say that I have to give to allow it. Nor does it saw I should be taxed to allow rhem

What's funny about your thinking is that you some how think that before the ACA, people had a choice, they didn't (at least it's no different than the choices they have now), the burden, in terms of healthcare, has always been on others to protect or take care of other people. Do you think ER visits by the non insured don't affect the insured? Do you think people who become bankrupt from healthcare costs have no affect on everyone else? Do you think people who wait, for financial reasons, until their health is so bad to go to the doctor has no affect on anyone else?

What you and so many other people who yell "socialism" (which you clearly have no idea what that is) at the slightest hint of government involvement, is that the primary duty of the US government is to ensure the general welfare of the people and the US. It is of a national interest, in many ways, to ensure people of any country are kept healthy. Whether the reason is to maintain an able bodied populace to protect ourselves from invasion, from both military or from disease (as was the case when the Spanish invaded south America), or whether it's to maintain a healthy population for economical reasons (a sick populace isn't very competitive in a global market), or in order to maintain a stable society (which has a huge affect on a number of things, such as the ability for one to be able to persue happiness...kind of hard to do if there is lawlessness).
 
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Balt

Lifer
Mar 12, 2000
12,673
482
126
A shutdown starts to demonstrate the bloat that has occurred and points to where slicing can be done even though the Dems claim the cupboard is bare.

Er, no. The budget proposed by the House doesn't actually do anything that would significantly reduce the deficit.
 

michal1980

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2003
8,019
43
91
What's funny about your thinking is that you some how think that before the ACA, people had a choice, they didn't (at least it's no different than the choices they have now), the burden, in terms of healthcare, has always been on others to protect or take care of other people. Do you think ER visits by the non insured don't affect the insured? Do you think people who become bankrupt from healthcare costs have no affect on everyone else? Do you think people who wait, for financial reasons, until their health is so bad to go to the doctor has no affect on anyone else?

What you and so many other people who yell "socialism" (which you clearly have no idea what that is) at the slightest hint of government involvement, is that the primary duty of the US government is to ensure the general welfare of the people and the US. It is of a national interest, in many ways, to ensure people of any country are kept healthy. Whether the reason is to maintain an able bodied populace to protect ourselves from invasion, from both military or from disease (as was the case when the Spanish invaded south America), or whether it's to maintain a healthy population for economical reasons (a sick populace isn't very competitive in a global market), or in order to maintain a stable society (which has a huge affect on a number of things, such as the ability for one to be able to persue happiness...kind of hard to do if there is lawlessness).



Its funny, your thinking that because health insurance was bad before. Replacing it with something else the answer. It doesn't matter if the solution is worse then before, at least you 'did' something.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,576
54,481
136
Obama already said he would not negotiate with republicans on the debt ceiling. Why aren't you ripping him for not compromising?


Obama will negotiate with Syria, Russia, Iran, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc etc. Republicans? nope.

Yet you on the left are so blinded by party you cant even see that.

There is no compromise being offered here, only extortion. The republicans freely admit that we have to raise the debt ceiling or face national catastrophe. So the republicans are willing to do something that they want in exchange for...other things that they want. The only way this is a compromise is if you're saying that the republicans truly prefer crashing the economy, which is even worse.

As I read somewhere, this is the equivalent of Putin saying something to the effect of "do what I want or I nuke New York". That is a threat, an extortion, not a negotiation. You don't get to use the threat of crashing the world economy to implant an agenda that the voters rejected eleven months ago. You don't negotiate with that.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
72,310
32,825
136
A shutdown will save the taxpayers about $300 million/day in salaries and benefits. It will cost the taxpayers billions in contract change orders as tens of thousands of government contractors shutdown and later restart work on government contracts. The police state (DHS, NSA) will be unaffected as their work is considered vital. Sounds smart.

Edit: After the first week, in most states, those laid off federal workers can apply for unemployment. The states will be then be picking up the tab for this latest political tantrum.
 
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shadow9d9

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2004
8,132
2
0
Obama already said he would not negotiate with republicans on the debt ceiling. Why aren't you ripping him for not compromising?


Obama will negotiate with Syria, Russia, Iran, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc etc. Republicans? nope.

Yet you on the left are so blinded by party you cant even see that.

You just eat up all the talking points you are fed! It is truly astonishing how people need to be told what to think. This is why Fox News works so well...
 

shadow9d9

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2004
8,132
2
0
ACA was pushed through in the dead of night for the same reason. If it was not done before a congressional recess, it would be DOA after the recess. The poison was starting to reveal as people started seeing what was inside was not what was being sold. Like a vampire, it could not stand the light if day

1 full year of debates and 100 republican amendments, using the republicans' own plan is being passed in the dead of night guys!
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,134
2,450
126
I was planning on visiting the Smithsonian next week... thanks for screwing up my vacation, assholes.

If the Republicans think that this extortion tactic is going to buy them moderate votes like mine, they are sorely mistaken.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
Its funny, your thinking that because health insurance was bad before. Replacing it with something else the answer. It doesn't matter if the solution is worse then before, at least you 'did' something.

Despite all the handwringing, nay-saying & projection from the fringewhack twit-o-sphere, it remains to be seen if the ACA will be "worse".

It's obvious that you want it to be, but that doesn't mean it will be. The scariest part for the right wing is that if the ACA works, their ideology falls to dust, where it really belongs.

As always, conservatives would rather struggle along with traditional methods. The first conservatives probably rejected flint points in favor of pointy sticks.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
I was planning on visiting the Smithsonian next week... thanks for screwing up my vacation, assholes.

If the Republicans think that this extortion tactic is going to buy them moderate votes like mine, they are sorely mistaken.

Indeed.

It seems that they won't have it any other way. "Compromise" (actually capitulation) now just encourages more extremist extortion down the road. That's how we got here.

It's time to call the bet. Fold or show, assholes.
 
Dec 10, 2005
27,862
12,404
136
Indeed.

It seems that they won't have it any other way. "Compromise" (actually capitulation) now just encourages more extremist extortion down the road. That's how we got here.

It's time to call the bet. Fold or show, assholes.

I see republicans throwing out words like compromise. They seem to think compromise means "I get all that I want and you get none of what you want."

ACA was pushed through in the dead of night for the same reason. If it was not done before a congressional recess, it would be DOA after the recess. The poison was starting to reveal as people started seeing what was inside was not what was being sold. Like a vampire, it could not stand the light if day

I'd normally expect a line like this out of one of the duller posters on this board.

It was hardly shoved through without debate in some clandestine manner. The issue itself has been discussed to death on and off for years and years. And the particular bill in question had many months of debates, amendments offered, concessions made...

Frankly, I think the ACA doesn't go far enough, but it is a step in the right direction. Health care costs and insurance costs were already rising dramatically prior to the passage of the ACA. The ACA at least tries to solve one problem - forcing everyone to have coverage to increase the insurance pool and not totally screw insurers with the 'must cover pre-exisiting conditions' provision. Are there still problems with the ACA? Yes. Can they be fixed? Probably, but that would require people actually working together and identifying the problems and then passing laws and regulations to fix those problems.
 
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Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
17,502
15,534
146
This little political flail is already costing some amount of money. We had to spend a couple of hours in meetings going over who's exempt and who's furloughed. Plus coming up with a support plan if it hits the fan while we're reduced operation support staffing.

Those are hours we could have spent doing our regular work.
 

sixone

Lifer
May 3, 2004
25,030
5
61
This little political flail is already costing some amount of money. We had to spend a couple of hours in meetings going over who's exempt and who's furloughed. Plus coming up with a support plan if it hits the fan while we're reduced operation support staffing.

Those are hours we could have spent doing our regular work.

The Senate could have passed the bill from the House, to guarantee that there's no shutdown.

They chose poorly.
 
Dec 10, 2005
27,862
12,404
136
The Senate could have passed the bill from the House, to guarantee that there's no shutdown.

They chose poorly.

Yeah. They should have just lived with that Hobson's choice

The House could have also passed an appropriations bill that didn't try to do an end-run around the normal repeal process. I think they chose poorly.
 

Balt

Lifer
Mar 12, 2000
12,673
482
126
This little political flail is already costing some amount of money. We had to spend a couple of hours in meetings going over who's exempt and who's furloughed. Plus coming up with a support plan if it hits the fan while we're reduced operation support staffing.

Those are hours we could have spent doing our regular work.

Government-wide there have probably been thousands of hours spent/wasted coming up with contingency plans for a shutdown. Then you have all of the people who are traveling on official government business who have to cut short their trips to fly home immediately, cancel training, cancel purchases, etc.

In short, it's an expensive clusterfuck.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,883
641
126
The Senate could have passed the bill from the House, to guarantee that there's no shutdown.

They chose poorly.
And they have a new opportunity to do so. Delay Democare for a year, repeal the sales tax on medical equipment and no shut down. It's all up to Reid right now. This is how compromise works. You win part, you lose part. Reid's the potential bad guy at this point and it can't be denied.

The lower chamber of the house passed a bill to fund the military in case of a shutdown. A very responsible thing to do.
 
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