Originally posted by: deathkoba
Well actually, the majority of Mac users are pros making serious big bucks while it's the opposite with PeeCees. Mainly because they're (PeeCees) only good for (crash prone) gaming, fiddling around with hardware and running maybe a few buggy business software that doesn't work most of the time due to viruses and malware. I don't even get why PeeCee WeeNies bother gaming on their PeeCees because a console is so much better in every aspect. Plug and play unlike Windoze Plug N PRAY.
Plug and play works better on the Mac, mainly because there is less hardware available on the Mac side. But when it is supported, it is supported.Originally posted by: theslug
Have you not learned anything? Plug N Pray does not exist. What, you think we're still using win95? Viruses and malware are nonexistant with the right software. Games run perfectly fine as long as your system is configured right.
Your points are invalid.
Originally posted by: deathkoba
Biggest Troll Ever. OS9 was far more stable than 98 ever was. DREAM ON!!!! BLUE SCREEN OF DEATH. That's all you get with 98 and it was actually running on the archaic DOS. ME was just as bad.
Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
Those with a true utter loathing of Macs likely spent a long time using them. I spent about a decade with Macs as my primary platform(was running Apple][s mainly before that for a while too) and really you can't properly appreciate how badly they sucked compared to PCs unless you were forced to use one for a while(or were ignorant enough to believe the BS). Every OS Apple had prior to OSX was extremely crash prone- certainly far worse then Win9x when pushed. An app went down your OS was going down with nigh certainty. Memory management was left up to you- having to manually assign applications an amount of RAM they were allowed to utilize. Moving over to the PC it took me a while to get used to it, but since escaping from the slums of technology(OS9 and earlier) I regularly have a dozen apps open and don't really give a thought to using more- this was not viable on earlier Mac OSs.
Their hardware is poorly made and insanely overpriced, and they lie to their customers. For a time Apple was selling Macs with a 'lifetime' warranty only to change their mind in a couple of years when they were faced with massive amounts of failing hardware and for a time refused to honor their warranty(it took a court case to get them to do what they promised they would). The original iMacs more recently suffered massive failure rates on their 'Analog boards' and frequently need to have them replaced running owners ~$200 a pop- this is for RageIIc and RagePro level graphics(a TNT1 b!tch slaps them hard for those not familiar).
The pricing of their hardware would be comical in the PC space. They do not use top tier parts as the norm, they tend to skimp on a level comparable to Wal-Mart level PCs with the only exception being what their typical consumer will see(the case, monitor, keyboard and mouse). Apple will avoid stepping up to the best available processors to protect their margins for long periods of time, so much so that users are frequently looking at paying $3.5K for a machine that was $3.5K six months prior. Mac users actually frequently tout this as an advantage because the machines hold their value longer- seems very foolish to me that they don't bother realizing that the prices on all of the components for that machine had been dropping for six months and Apple was simply kicking back raking in serious margins at their expense. Their GPU offerings also tend to be significantly sub par compared to what a like PC would land you, as is the case with their RAM and HDs.
Steve Jobs. The man is a used car salesman at best. He has had regulatory bodies force him to pull ads off the market because they went so far off the deep end(his RDF gets insane at times). He also suffers from an ego the likes of which has held Apple back for most of its existance(his abject failure to make moves both the first and second time he was in charge of the company when he had golden oppurtunities- first with the launching of the Mac and then with the tranisition to OSX his most noteable major failures). Due to his desire to stroke himself he refused to take the one part of their machines that people every really thought was worth a d@mn- the OS, and port it over to the far more popular and for some time now far more powerful x86 platform. If he could have swallowed his pride just enough to make that simple move Gates would have something remotely viable to worry about and Apple would likely be looking at an order of magitude greater marketshare then what they currently have. Also a factor for Jobs is his absolutisim in telling customers what they want, how they want it and when they want it. If a PC maker did the same they would be DOA- there is simply no chance they would survive at all. The extremely limited options you are given when buying a Mac are those approved by Jobs and only those approved by Jobs. Apple ran into problems for the brief period of time that they allowed clones- mainly as the marketshare was too small, and this is used as justification for their extremely hard lined stance against serving customers now.
Lack of available software. Macs have something available to do just about anything- PCs just have a whole lot more options on what you want to do it with. Of course the Mac faithful will tell you their options are just fine, they wouldn't be Mac faithful if they felt otherwise
Nigh no games. They can attempt to marginalize this any way they want. My PC can do everything their Mac can do and play games. I have all the consoles too(and handhelds for that matter); I don't like missing any worth while title and with a Mac over a PC you will miss almost all of the computer based games worth playing.
Jobs won't let me build my own. I don't trust Dell to build my rig, I don't trust HP/Compaq to build my rig, I don't trust IBM to build my rig- why would I trust a company that really can't compete with them? I wouldn't mind running OSX for a while and seeing how much of the hype is justified, it is hard to know as most Mac users are either delusional or liars when it comes to their platform(I know this all too well from my time using the pitiful pre OSX OSs). There is no chance I'm going to buy one of Apple's very poorly built machines, they are overpriced, underpowered, and have configurations that are sad outside of the uber expensive machines. If I could build my own it would be worth it for me as a curiosity, but not being able to build my own places it very high on the 'suck' list.
Pretty much what it all comes down to is unless you know exactly why you want to buy a Mac, you probably don't want one.
Originally posted by: htmlmasterdave
Originally posted by: deathkoba
Biggest Troll Ever. OS9 was far more stable than 98 ever was. DREAM ON!!!! BLUE SCREEN OF DEATH. That's all you get with 98 and it was actually running on the archaic DOS. ME was just as bad.
Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
Those with a true utter loathing of Macs likely spent a long time using them. I spent about a decade with Macs as my primary platform(was running Apple][s mainly before that for a while too) and really you can't properly appreciate how badly they sucked compared to PCs unless you were forced to use one for a while(or were ignorant enough to believe the BS). Every OS Apple had prior to OSX was extremely crash prone- certainly far worse then Win9x when pushed. An app went down your OS was going down with nigh certainty. Memory management was left up to you- having to manually assign applications an amount of RAM they were allowed to utilize. Moving over to the PC it took me a while to get used to it, but since escaping from the slums of technology(OS9 and earlier) I regularly have a dozen apps open and don't really give a thought to using more- this was not viable on earlier Mac OSs.
Their hardware is poorly made and insanely overpriced, and they lie to their customers. For a time Apple was selling Macs with a 'lifetime' warranty only to change their mind in a couple of years when they were faced with massive amounts of failing hardware and for a time refused to honor their warranty(it took a court case to get them to do what they promised they would). The original iMacs more recently suffered massive failure rates on their 'Analog boards' and frequently need to have them replaced running owners ~$200 a pop- this is for RageIIc and RagePro level graphics(a TNT1 b!tch slaps them hard for those not familiar).
The pricing of their hardware would be comical in the PC space. They do not use top tier parts as the norm, they tend to skimp on a level comparable to Wal-Mart level PCs with the only exception being what their typical consumer will see(the case, monitor, keyboard and mouse). Apple will avoid stepping up to the best available processors to protect their margins for long periods of time, so much so that users are frequently looking at paying $3.5K for a machine that was $3.5K six months prior. Mac users actually frequently tout this as an advantage because the machines hold their value longer- seems very foolish to me that they don't bother realizing that the prices on all of the components for that machine had been dropping for six months and Apple was simply kicking back raking in serious margins at their expense. Their GPU offerings also tend to be significantly sub par compared to what a like PC would land you, as is the case with their RAM and HDs.
Steve Jobs. The man is a used car salesman at best. He has had regulatory bodies force him to pull ads off the market because they went so far off the deep end(his RDF gets insane at times). He also suffers from an ego the likes of which has held Apple back for most of its existance(his abject failure to make moves both the first and second time he was in charge of the company when he had golden oppurtunities- first with the launching of the Mac and then with the tranisition to OSX his most noteable major failures). Due to his desire to stroke himself he refused to take the one part of their machines that people every really thought was worth a d@mn- the OS, and port it over to the far more popular and for some time now far more powerful x86 platform. If he could have swallowed his pride just enough to make that simple move Gates would have something remotely viable to worry about and Apple would likely be looking at an order of magitude greater marketshare then what they currently have. Also a factor for Jobs is his absolutisim in telling customers what they want, how they want it and when they want it. If a PC maker did the same they would be DOA- there is simply no chance they would survive at all. The extremely limited options you are given when buying a Mac are those approved by Jobs and only those approved by Jobs. Apple ran into problems for the brief period of time that they allowed clones- mainly as the marketshare was too small, and this is used as justification for their extremely hard lined stance against serving customers now.
Lack of available software. Macs have something available to do just about anything- PCs just have a whole lot more options on what you want to do it with. Of course the Mac faithful will tell you their options are just fine, they wouldn't be Mac faithful if they felt otherwise
Nigh no games. They can attempt to marginalize this any way they want. My PC can do everything their Mac can do and play games. I have all the consoles too(and handhelds for that matter); I don't like missing any worth while title and with a Mac over a PC you will miss almost all of the computer based games worth playing.
Jobs won't let me build my own. I don't trust Dell to build my rig, I don't trust HP/Compaq to build my rig, I don't trust IBM to build my rig- why would I trust a company that really can't compete with them? I wouldn't mind running OSX for a while and seeing how much of the hype is justified, it is hard to know as most Mac users are either delusional or liars when it comes to their platform(I know this all too well from my time using the pitiful pre OSX OSs). There is no chance I'm going to buy one of Apple's very poorly built machines, they are overpriced, underpowered, and have configurations that are sad outside of the uber expensive machines. If I could build my own it would be worth it for me as a curiosity, but not being able to build my own places it very high on the 'suck' list.
Pretty much what it all comes down to is unless you know exactly why you want to buy a Mac, you probably don't want one.
Dude your TOTALLY WRONG, omg............
ME was 10x worse than 98
Originally posted by: ViRGE
Seriously dude, have you even used OS X? There are several utilities/features in the OS that absolutely blow away Windows when it comes to recovery. Macs have AV clients(although a lack of viruses to use them on), don't need to defrag since the filesystem is built to be fragmentation and corruption resistant(ala NTFS; smart organization and journaling), and don't need a registry cleaner since they don't have a registry(and hence no chance of the registry blowing out). There's a utility to repair disk permissions should someone do something they shouldn't, and if you have to reinstall there's an option in the installer that can really reinstall the whole OS while keeping your files and settings in tact(it even packs up the old OS in case you need to get something out of it); it'll be a whole new OS and you'd never notice unless you used non-default apps. There are a lot of points I could agree on dealing with PC vs. Mac, but take it from someone who's done recovery on both - recovering on a Mac is far easier than on a Windows PC.Originally posted by: Gnosis
2. When it starts to go crazy there nothing you can do about it. on a
pc you can defrag/cleanregister/run antivirus and in the worst case
reinstall the OS but keep your files. On a mac.... well... sit back and
enjoy the ride.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ok - maybe I expressed myself clumsy. What I was trying to say was that if you do those things
to a pc it's usually ok after that. Anyway - what I was tring to get at was that if there is a *real*
problem with a MAC it's usually a much worse problem. And the user base is MUCH bigger with PC
so even if perhaps you need help more often you're also more likely to find help!
For example: I have a friend who is a photographer for magazines and such. His company bought
a couple of G5:s. They didn't work.... were incompatible with programs.... would freeze...
wouldn't shut down..... and worst of all. When they had used their warranty they came back from
the help-center with a "nothing wrong" note.... They ended up canceling the whole deal
and buying five HP PC:s instead. And my friend (who knows nothing of computers by the way...)
actually says he now prefers the PC to the mac because he can use so many more programs
to generate image effects and such.
This is - of course - just two personal opinions but at least it's something....
I'm going to have to go with deathkoba's assessment of the problem not knowing more about it. The problems described are not consistent with any issue I know of with the G5 series, and if Apple there's nothing wrong, they're usually more right than wrong. The problem is highly likely to be either a software application they're using, or a poorly written device driver. This doesn't mean much for the Mac itself(i.e. the machine is still a perfectly fine machine), but I think it speaks volumes about how some of the Mac dev houses(like all dev houses) can be very lazy and profit driven.Originally posted by: Gnosis
ok - maybe I expressed myself clumsy. What I was trying to say was that if you do those thingsOriginally posted by: ViRGE
Seriously dude, have you even used OS X? There are several utilities/features in the OS that absolutely blow away Windows when it comes to recovery. Macs have AV clients(although a lack of viruses to use them on), don't need to defrag since the filesystem is built to be fragmentation and corruption resistant(ala NTFS; smart organization and journaling), and don't need a registry cleaner since they don't have a registry(and hence no chance of the registry blowing out). There's a utility to repair disk permissions should someone do something they shouldn't, and if you have to reinstall there's an option in the installer that can really reinstall the whole OS while keeping your files and settings in tact(it even packs up the old OS in case you need to get something out of it); it'll be a whole new OS and you'd never notice unless you used non-default apps. There are a lot of points I could agree on dealing with PC vs. Mac, but take it from someone who's done recovery on both - recovering on a Mac is far easier than on a Windows PC.Originally posted by: Gnosis
2. When it starts to go crazy there nothing you can do about it. on a
pc you can defrag/cleanregister/run antivirus and in the worst case
reinstall the OS but keep your files. On a mac.... well... sit back and
enjoy the ride.
to a pc it's usually ok after that. Anyway - what I was trying to get at was that if there is a *real*
problem with a MAC it's usually a much worse problem. And the user base is MUCH bigger with PC
so even if perhaps you need help more often you're also more likely to find help!
For example: I have a friend who is a photographer for magazines and such. His company bought
a couple of G5:s. They didn't work.... were incompatible with programs.... would freeze...
wouldn't shut down..... and worst of all. When they had used their warranty they came back from
the help-center with a "nothing wrong" note.... They ended up canceling the whole deal
and buying five HP PC:s instead. And my friend (who knows nothing of computers by the way...)
actually says he now prefers the PC to the mac because he can use so many more programs
to generate image effects and such.
This is - of course - just two personal opinions but at least it's something....
Originally posted by: deathkoba
Actually it's quite true Michael. A good chunk of Mac users are artists. Guess what? The majority of artists are MAD lefties. They'll vote democrat without thinking twice about it. I know firsthand as my mother is a makeup artist. ALL of her friends are crazy lefties and despite the small marketshare of Macs, a GOOD majority of them are Mac users.
As for my previous responces, I was sort of trolling around as I'm sick to death of these Mac vs. PC threads but my experiences with the Macs are pretty extensive (about 9 years) and I'll be happy to say that I'm just about ambidextrous on both platforms although I do have more Mac experience.
Of all Mac users, EUG is probably the least biased of them and sometimes his responces surprise me as he is well-informed and sound like a sane, experienced individual on both platforms compared with the majority of "Mad Mac'ers" - a term I made up a few years ago. Good on you EUG.
Originally posted by: deathkoba
Yea yea, keep coming up with stupid excuses. Macs are used by PROFESSIONALS, not some PEECEE WEENIE GAMING DORK. Get a life, get a Mac.
Originally posted by: Sureshot324
One thing that really annoys me about apple is that they just can't admit they're wrong about some things.
For example: the taskbar. Basically every operating system in the world has one except for MacOS. Since you have a rectangular screen, it just makes perfect sense to have a customizable bar at the bottom of the screen where you can put shortcuts, open windows, menus, etc. But if Mac put it in now, it would be admiting that after all these years, MS was right and Apple was wrong. So they don't even give you the option of using a taskbar, it would hurt Mac Pride too much.
Same thing with the one button mouse. I know you can use a two button mouse, but they don't come with them and you can't get a laptop with 2 mouse buttons. Their claim that it's "less confusing for users" is obvious bs but there's no way their gonna switch after pushing the one buttom mouse for so long.
Originally posted by: Sureshot324
One thing that really annoys me about apple is that they just can't admit they're wrong about some things.
For example: the taskbar. Basically every operating system in the world has one except for MacOS. Since you have a rectangular screen, it just makes perfect sense to have a customizable bar at the bottom of the screen where you can put shortcuts, open windows, menus, etc. But if Mac put it in now, it would be admiting that after all these years, MS was right and Apple was wrong. So they don't even give you the option of using a taskbar, it would hurt Mac Pride too much.
Same thing with the one button mouse. I know you can use a two button mouse, but they don't come with them and you can't get a laptop with 2 mouse buttons. Their claim that it's "less confusing for users" is obvious bs but there's no way their gonna switch after pushing the one buttom mouse for so long.
There is a simple fix for the blinking 12:00 (which is the fault of the VCR mfgrs - they should use battery for the clock or get with the cable folks to get time from the wire.)... and most professionals can't get that blinking 12:00 to stop blinking