whats wrong with Mac's?

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Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
9,215
6,820
136
There are still a lot of misconceptions floating around. No, the Mac isn't perfect, but it does some things better than a lot of you presume.

Overpriced? Not necessarily. For example, an iMac G5 is pretty much on par with what Dell sells at an equivalent price, especially when you factor in software. Dual-processor PowerMacs can outperform dual Xeon and Opteron workstations (and not just in Apple's tests, either). And their laptops tend to compete well on a feature-for-feature basis, especially when you consider size and weight.

The main problem Apple has is that not everyone wants to spend $1500 minimum just to have performance AND internal expansion, and they don't always need to.
 

imported_Lucifer

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 2004
5,139
1
0
Did I say I didn't respect the Mac platform? Did I not say that I use them daily? Did I not say that I have had many Mac's? Want full Mac respect? Go Here @

I never said you didnt respect the Mac platform. Where did you get this from? Quote me on this please.
 

GonzoDaGr8

Platinum Member
Apr 29, 2001
2,183
1
0
Originally posted by: Thin Lizzy
Did I say I didn't respect the Mac platform? Did I not say that I use them daily? Did I not say that I have had many Mac's? Want full Mac respect? Go Here @

I never said you didnt respect the Mac platform. Where did you get this from? Quote me on this please.

Your Quote:
Because I asked you to respect our platform?

I took it as you thinking I didn't..
Maybe I took it wrong..
Give it a rest..
 

GonzoDaGr8

Platinum Member
Apr 29, 2001
2,183
1
0
Originally posted by: QMaze
I'm going to jump in on this.

How many posters actually own a Mac, and I mean one in the last 5 years. Most likely 90% of these posts are from ill informed non Mac users. PC's rule the gaming arena, Mac does everything else better. Windows cannot even compare itself to a Unix based OS.

Why is it when you see a post like this, the arguement is always, Mac is too expensive and PC's are the best for games. You think your PC is fast, try converting a 100MB, 50 layer graphic image in Photoshop to Greyscale on your PC and compare the difference on a G5, not even close, in fact your probably crash the PC.

If you want to play games, buy an XBox. If you want to really use a computer, buy a Mac. Hmm now where is my order form for my $4500 Alienware PC, give me a break.

Come off your high horse PC owners and test drive a G5. Ok bring on the BS.
Do you own a Mac?

 

GonzoDaGr8

Platinum Member
Apr 29, 2001
2,183
1
0
Originally posted by: Commodus
There are still a lot of misconceptions floating around. No, the Mac isn't perfect, but it does some things better than a lot of you presume.

Overpriced? Not necessarily. For example, an iMac G5 is pretty much on par with what Dell sells at an equivalent price, especially when you factor in software. Dual-processor PowerMacs can outperform dual Xeon and Opteron workstations (and not just in Apple's tests, either). And their laptops tend to compete well on a feature-for-feature basis, especially when you consider size and weight.

The main problem Apple has is that not everyone wants to spend $1500 minimum just to have performance AND internal expansion, and they don't always need to.

The new iMac G5 is pretty slick. I want one of those for in the living room.

 

imported_Lucifer

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 2004
5,139
1
0
I took it as you thinking I didn't..
Maybe I took it wrong..
Give it a rest..

Yes, you did take it wrong. Ill give it a rest though.

I agree that the iMac is nice. Too bad I cant afford one right now. Im sticking with my eMac for the time being.
 

baumerz

Banned
May 17, 2004
105
0
0
Originally posted by: Thin Lizzy
I heard the same thing when I had an Amiga. Software may not be limited to you but it is to me. Like I said; I love the hardware but there isn't MY preference in hardware.

Example: I just bought Star Wars Battlefront, Trackmania, and pre ordered Halflife 2 because that's what my buddies are playing online. I bought Solidworks 2004 CAD for at home.

These are my needs. If yours are fulfilled by a MAC then fine. I mean why do you people try to make others feel guilty about our choices? You commies or what ? I tend to think that your not really happy with your limited choices and so you try to convince the rest of us we don't need choices either.

Get first line software and I'll buy a MAC.

Ok, I see games are your needs. Then the PC is right for you. And where did you get we are trying to make you others feel guilty about your choices? And what limited choices? Games? How about you name some software that wont run on the Mac other than games, because not everyones needs is gaming. If that app wont run on the Mac, there is a substitute.

And no one here is trying to convince anyone to use a Mac. Where did you get this from? This is nonsense you threw in here.

I tend to think that your not really happy with your limited choices and so you try to convince the rest of us we don't need choices either.

You are just saying things that are on top of your head. Can you prove this?


ViRGE seems to indicate my feelings above.

I have 6 PCs. I have built them all myself. I love building PCs as much as being productive with them or playing BF Vietnam with my friends. I don't see MAC parts on NewEgg.

I am a heavy user of CAD and I can promise you that MAC has no CAD package that will touch a Microsoft system CAD package.

I love games. I don't play much except for in the winter when I am shut in. All my friends I play with have PCs and that where the most popular games are released.

Those are my reasons for turning to PCs but that doesn't mean that the MACs are bad machines. I love the look and feel AND I detest Microshaft. What are you gonna do? I really wish Apple would put a big shoulder behind game development and even get some unique titles. Home gaming is what drives a majority of the PCs into the home.

By the way. I just purchased a used C64 on Ebay! Looking for an Amiga now. Alot of good memories with those machines.

Also....Microsoft needs Apple. It gives them direction. Does anyone really think Windows XP would be here if it wasn't for Apple's OS? Apple/MAC is great for the industry and has been the most innovative computer company out there. I love the iPOD; one of my kids has one. iTUNES is a great idea and everyone in the industry is trying to copy Apple. A photo iPOD? What a great idea! So, even though I don't own an Apple I hope they keep going strong and I will always be cheering them on!!!!!
 

imported_Lucifer

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 2004
5,139
1
0
I don't see MAC parts on NewEgg.

You can buy Mac parts on NewEgg!! You can buy hard drives, Memory, Video cards, etc. You can also buy processor upgrades, but not off of Newegg. OWC and other sites sell processor upgrades. What you cant buy to build your own Mac is the motherboard or the case, unless you go to eBay or some place that sells those things. Here is the Mac part of Newegg.

You can build a PC, but compare Apple to Dell or HP. Saying you cant build a Mac is like saying you cant build a Dell. You know what I mean?

Im not much of a gamer. So games are not important to me. But my brother has purchased Doom 3 and Half Life 2 for his PC, and we are waiting to get those, as they did not come in the mail yet because we ordered them yesterday. I know I will enjoy those games. His PC should be able to handle them, because it is pretty powerful.

I have never used an Amiga. The oldest computer I have ever owned was a Tandy laptop with DOS. That was so long ago. lol

I too hope Apple continues to keep going strong. Its my favorite computer company. Its such a great company.

Thanks for posting baumerz.
 

Gnosis

Member
Aug 27, 2004
67
0
0
Originally posted by: bluestrobe
Here's one hit for the Mac:

OSX and its limited installability. OSX only can be installed on a late rev. G3 processor or newer system with USB capability. I have a G3 550MHz Umax SuperMac that originally shipped with a 200 MHz card and 512mb ram. However due to the limitations of OSX I can never install this on my system. I could do it with a hack and OS 9.2.2 but you know what? I need a hack for OS 9.2.2 since that won't install due to its limited installability either! OS9.1 is currently loaded. So in a lateral comparison, it?s like I have Win98 but I can't install Win98SE because of my hardware and what Macintosh thinks I should have installed! Sorry guys but I could load Win XP on a 200MHz Pentium MMX if I wanted to. Macintosh enjoys their niche because controlling hardware/software as they do; they can force users to upgrade only based on the OS version. If you don't see it this way then you are blinded by the glow on your G5 case. It should always be the choice of the user on what they want installed and if it runs slow and sluggish, their fault. I built up my G3 Mac clone to use OSX and learned that I couldn't use it because I wasn't up to par with the current Mac "trend" of what they want me to have, although my setup could easily have run OSX.

People say Microsoft is bad compared to Macintosh, but who forces their users to buy their hardware so they can use the latest software? Win XP runs fine on my 233 MHz P2 but I can't go above OS 9.1 on my 550 MHz G3.

When debating a computing platform, look at the past/current/future rather than the accomplishments of the last 2 years for a certain platform and then use it to bash the entire life of another one.

As for most PC users not knowing their hardware configurations, tell me what the gap is on your spark plugs in your car? Using this as an argument why Macs are better is saying we should go back to the Communist days where we all have one type of car and computer because we are too lazy to find out the specifics of it.

Computer (PC) companies don't have to rely on looks to sell a product such as Macintosh does. Dell, HP/Compaq, and Gateway have been riding the same general design lines for the past couple of years with some improvements. They don't sell their systems based on the shock value it has but because its functionability. Most Macintosh ad campaigns have been based on looks, not functionability (clam shell, graphical designs embedded into the case, giant G3 or G4 in the side of the case). A computer could look like crap but if its fast, then that?s all that matters.

OK - this may be a bit late but I think that mr bluestrobe here captured very well why som
of us dislike mac:s so much. If you sum it up you get:

1. Macintosh OSX is fine.
2. Macintosh as a company are monopolistic sons of bitches who forces you to make hardware upgrades.
3. Mac:s - to a higher degree than PC:s - sell on suface over substance. Which mean they lure in innocent
first time user with their flashy advertisments and non-worldly perfomance claims.

And this is also why I dispise mac:s. They simple promise more than they deliver and I feel sorry
for those who belive in everything they claim and simply jump on the bandwagon without a
second thought. That some people after making a concious choice prefer mac I have nothing
to complain about.

The fact remains though that PC:s are in my opinion a "higher user level"-machine. Yes - that
means that Mac:s *may* be easier to use. But for X % more effort you can get so much more
out of a PC if you set it up just the way you want to. Not to mention - at a lower cost as well.

An earlier reference to communism was also very accurate. If Stalin had made a PC for the
Soviet Union it would without a doubt have been a Mac. Probably uglier and blood-red but
never the less - a mac. A fixed concept with a minimum of user freedom - "thisss isss what
whe suppla and yo whill use ith"...
 

bluestrobe

Platinum Member
Aug 15, 2004
2,033
1
0
Some dogged my post because OSX won't install on a clone. Another blind misconception. OSX won't install on most beige G3's made by Mac. I have a 9500/150 with a G3 300 MHz upgrade and no, it won't OSX either. Mac software sees most clones as Macs since the OS's were never designed to be run on any but Macintosh computers. Clone or No clone, OS's made by Mac was another way to force their users to buy new systems to take advantage of the "revolutionary" software they presented.
 

baumerz

Banned
May 17, 2004
105
0
0
Originally posted by: Thin Lizzy
I don't see MAC parts on NewEgg.

You can buy Mac parts on NewEgg!! You can buy hard drives, Memory, Video cards, etc. You can also buy processor upgrades, but not off of Newegg. OWC and other sites sell processor upgrades. What you cant buy to build your own Mac is the motherboard or the case, unless you go to eBay or some place that sells those things. Here is the Mac part of Newegg.

You can build a PC, but compare Apple to Dell or HP. Saying you cant build a Mac is like saying you cant build a Dell. You know what I mean?

Im not much of a gamer. So games are not important to me. But my brother has purchased Doom 3 and Half Life 2 for his PC, and we are waiting to get those, as they did not come in the mail yet because we ordered them yesterday. I know I will enjoy those games. His PC should be able to handle them, because it is pretty powerful.

I have never used an Amiga. The oldest computer I have ever owned was a Tandy laptop with DOS. That was so long ago. lol

I too hope Apple continues to keep going strong. Its my favorite computer company. Its such a great company.

Thanks for posting baumerz.


(secretly.....I think MACs are all of our favorites whether we own one or not or whether we admit it or not. It has brought us to many good things.)

 

baumerz

Banned
May 17, 2004
105
0
0
Originally posted by: Gnosis
Originally posted by: bluestrobe
Here's one hit for the Mac:

OSX and its limited installability. OSX only can be installed on a late rev. G3 processor or newer system with USB capability. I have a G3 550MHz Umax SuperMac that originally shipped with a 200 MHz card and 512mb ram. However due to the limitations of OSX I can never install this on my system. I could do it with a hack and OS 9.2.2 but you know what? I need a hack for OS 9.2.2 since that won't install due to its limited installability either! OS9.1 is currently loaded. So in a lateral comparison, it?s like I have Win98 but I can't install Win98SE because of my hardware and what Macintosh thinks I should have installed! Sorry guys but I could load Win XP on a 200MHz Pentium MMX if I wanted to. Macintosh enjoys their niche because controlling hardware/software as they do; they can force users to upgrade only based on the OS version. If you don't see it this way then you are blinded by the glow on your G5 case. It should always be the choice of the user on what they want installed and if it runs slow and sluggish, their fault. I built up my G3 Mac clone to use OSX and learned that I couldn't use it because I wasn't up to par with the current Mac "trend" of what they want me to have, although my setup could easily have run OSX.

People say Microsoft is bad compared to Macintosh, but who forces their users to buy their hardware so they can use the latest software? Win XP runs fine on my 233 MHz P2 but I can't go above OS 9.1 on my 550 MHz G3.

When debating a computing platform, look at the past/current/future rather than the accomplishments of the last 2 years for a certain platform and then use it to bash the entire life of another one.

As for most PC users not knowing their hardware configurations, tell me what the gap is on your spark plugs in your car? Using this as an argument why Macs are better is saying we should go back to the Communist days where we all have one type of car and computer because we are too lazy to find out the specifics of it.

Computer (PC) companies don't have to rely on looks to sell a product such as Macintosh does. Dell, HP/Compaq, and Gateway have been riding the same general design lines for the past couple of years with some improvements. They don't sell their systems based on the shock value it has but because its functionability. Most Macintosh ad campaigns have been based on looks, not functionability (clam shell, graphical designs embedded into the case, giant G3 or G4 in the side of the case). A computer could look like crap but if its fast, then that?s all that matters.

OK - this may be a bit late but I think that mr bluestrobe here captured very well why som
of us dislike mac:s so much. If you sum it up you get:

1. Macintosh OSX is fine.
2. Macintosh as a company are monopolistic sons of bitches who forces you to make hardware upgrades.
3. Mac:s - to a higher degree than PC:s - sell on suface over substance. Which mean they lure in innocent
first time user with their flashy advertisments and non-worldly perfomance claims.

And this is also why I dispise mac:s. They simple promise more than they deliver and I feel sorry
for those who belive in everything they claim and simply jump on the bandwagon without a
second thought. That some people after making a concious choice prefer mac I have nothing
to complain about.

The fact remains though that PC:s are in my opinion a "higher user level"-machine. Yes - that
means that Mac:s *may* be easier to use. But for X % more effort you can get so much more
out of a PC if you set it up just the way you want to. Not to mention - at a lower cost as well.

An earlier reference to communism was also very accurate. If Stalin had made a PC for the
Soviet Union it would without a doubt have been a Mac. Probably uglier and blood-red but
never the less - a mac. A fixed concept with a minimum of user freedom - "thisss isss what
whe suppla and yo whill use ith"...

For a second there I thought you were talking about Dell or Gateway!

All companies are out to make sales and they will do anything, including flashy advertising, to entice the uninformed. If you bought something you didn't want, you are uninformed and who's fault is that?

 

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
19,616
6,666
136
After I installed firefox on the Mac I'm working at it feels ok to work with. Tabbed browsing is really helpfull on OS X.
 

ViRGE

Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
Oct 9, 1999
31,516
167
106
Originally posted by: bluestrobe
Some dogged my post because OSX won't install on a clone. Another blind misconception. OSX won't install on most beige G3's made by Mac. I have a 9500/150 with a G3 300 MHz upgrade and no, it won't OSX either. Mac software sees most clones as Macs since the OS's were never designed to be run on any but Macintosh computers. Clone or No clone, OS's made by Mac was another way to force their users to buy new systems to take advantage of the "revolutionary" software they presented.
A pre-G3 Mac using an upgrade card might as well be a clone too. Apple is pretty straight-forward on this: they don't want to have to deal with OS X stability/support issues on machines that are not based on their own G3+ configurations(i.e. clones and upgrade cards), so they don't have OS X support it. Apple is a company concerned about reputation and stability, and will never support such a setup. The fact of the matter is that the 9500 you have would have been made in 1996, and would have already been 5 years old when OS X was introduced, and now is more than 8 years old. You already got a long, full life out of the computer, and even though Apple no longer supports OS 9, you're going to continue to get a reasonable amount of use out of it without OS X.
 

wetcat007

Diamond Member
Nov 5, 2002
3,502
0
0
Originally posted by: bdmst16
I'd pick one up in a second, but they are just too expensive. Here at school, everyone in network security and telecomm has either Linux or Mac.

Linux and Mac too different extremes Mac=VERY Expensive Linux=Free and windows is in the middle lol
 

wetcat007

Diamond Member
Nov 5, 2002
3,502
0
0
Originally posted by: Thin Lizzy
Why is it that when someone lists a reason why they dont like Macs, its "The one-button mouse" or something like that? Did you know you can use your Multi Click Windows mouse with a Mac? The Mac OS has built in support of Multi Click mice. I am using a Logitech Click! 4 button mouse with my Mac right now. Just wanted to let you all know.

"PeeCees" will beat your mac at almost anything for 1/2 the price. Debate over.

My 1GHz eMac whooped my friends AMD 2000+ running at 2.07GHz in various tests in Photoshop, i.e. gaussion blur and Image Sizing. He's got faster memory,(DDR400 compared to my PC133), faster bus(400mhz FSB compared to my 133mhz FSB) faster HD, (7200 RPM Seagate SATA drive compared to my 5400 RPM ATA drive) faster processor, (2.07GHz compared to my 1GHz)

I prefer the Mac because I have had a better experience with them. The Mac is more stable, virus free and very easy to use. I hardly ever have a good experience with a PC. I like PC's, I even use Virtual PC at times, but I am a Mac person. Everyone has a different reason to dislike Mac, and I respect that. That is their opinion. Many users have different reasons to like Macs, such as me, and other people should respect this.

I hope this thread turns out to be a constructive thread, not a flame war thread.

Am i the only one who thinks benchmarking photoshop is lame? Benchmark UT2004 on it, or anything BESIDES PHOTOSHOP!
 

wetcat007

Diamond Member
Nov 5, 2002
3,502
0
0
While we're argueing about mac and pc's let's bring Micheal Moore, George W, John Kerry, and Nader into the conversation
 

bluestrobe

Platinum Member
Aug 15, 2004
2,033
1
0
Originally posted by: ViRGEA pre-G3 Mac using an upgrade card might as well be a clone too. Apple is pretty straight-forward on this: they don't want to have to deal with OS X stability/support issues on machines that are not based on their own G3+ configurations(i.e. clones and upgrade cards), so they don't have OS X support it. Apple is a company concerned about reputation and stability, and will never support such a setup. The fact of the matter is that the 9500 you have would have been made in 1996, and would have already been 5 years old when OS X was introduced, and now is more than 8 years old. You already got a long, full life out of the computer, and even though Apple no longer supports OS 9, you're going to continue to get a reasonable amount of use out of it without OS X.

Macintosh even did this back into OS9. If a computer's hardware can take it or handle it, then it should be my choice to run it. Creating software code wouldn't take much for older generation Macs and you can scream the Macintosh philosophy of "they did it for ease of supportability" but the bottom line is they always had the idea of leaving users high and dry if they didn't want to buy a new computer every 3 years. There?s some older generation iMacs out there that won't take newer versions of OSX due to "hardware limitations".

I always thought it was funny a iMac running a G3 266mhz with 128mb of ram would run OSX (as in "minimal hardware" requirements) but a nicely updated "older" Mac with 3 times the amount of hardware can't (even a biege G3 made at the same time with a faster processor is limited to what version of OSX it can run.). Way for Mac designers to think ahead and care about "all" of its users. (Cough yea right cough)

I guess Mircrosoft needs to limit support to only P3/P4 processors and leave everyone to find their own OS to operate. Great way to grab marketshare.
 

ViRGE

Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
Oct 9, 1999
31,516
167
106
Originally posted by: bluestrobe
Originally posted by: ViRGEA pre-G3 Mac using an upgrade card might as well be a clone too. Apple is pretty straight-forward on this: they don't want to have to deal with OS X stability/support issues on machines that are not based on their own G3+ configurations(i.e. clones and upgrade cards), so they don't have OS X support it. Apple is a company concerned about reputation and stability, and will never support such a setup. The fact of the matter is that the 9500 you have would have been made in 1996, and would have already been 5 years old when OS X was introduced, and now is more than 8 years old. You already got a long, full life out of the computer, and even though Apple no longer supports OS 9, you're going to continue to get a reasonable amount of use out of it without OS X.
There?s some older generation iMacs out there that won't take newer versions of OSX due to "hardware limitations".
Do you have proof to back up that statement? Apple History says the oldest iMac can run up to 10.3.5, the current revision of OS X.
 

bluestrobe

Platinum Member
Aug 15, 2004
2,033
1
0
If you get one of the first ones, newer revisions of OSX won't load on them. Thers ways around it like upgrading them to the fullest extent you can and even then it runs super sluggish. I should have reworded that original phrase. Meanwhile my G3 550mhz with 512mb ram is still limited to OS9.

Also the Apple History website is full of simple opinions and errors, I wouldn't use it as absolute fact.
 

imported_Lucifer

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 2004
5,139
1
0
Am i the only one who thinks benchmarking photoshop is lame? Benchmark UT2004 on it, or anything BESIDES PHOTOSHOP!

Whats wrong with photoshop? The reason Photoshop is used is because many tests in photoshop take advantage of Altivec, found in the G4 and G5 processors. Altivec produces data at 128 bits, while the AMD processor my friend has produces data at 32 bits. My friends computer hardware is a lot better than mine, since hes got faster memory, faster processor, faster HD. Shows how the G4 processor is more advanced than his AMD 2000+

Want to learn more about Altivec? Look it up.

I think you are the only one who thinks benchmarking in Photoshop is lame, because if it were lame, I dont think many people who do benchmarking would use photoshop. So take your business else where.
 

jhu

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
11,918
9
81
Originally posted by: ViRGE
Originally posted by: bluestrobe
Some dogged my post because OSX won't install on a clone. Another blind misconception. OSX won't install on most beige G3's made by Mac. I have a 9500/150 with a G3 300 MHz upgrade and no, it won't OSX either. Mac software sees most clones as Macs since the OS's were never designed to be run on any but Macintosh computers. Clone or No clone, OS's made by Mac was another way to force their users to buy new systems to take advantage of the "revolutionary" software they presented.
A pre-G3 Mac using an upgrade card might as well be a clone too. Apple is pretty straight-forward on this: they don't want to have to deal with OS X stability/support issues on machines that are not based on their own G3+ configurations(i.e. clones and upgrade cards), so they don't have OS X support it. Apple is a company concerned about reputation and stability, and will never support such a setup. The fact of the matter is that the 9500 you have would have been made in 1996, and would have already been 5 years old when OS X was introduced, and now is more than 8 years old. You already got a long, full life out of the computer, and even though Apple no longer supports OS 9, you're going to continue to get a reasonable amount of use out of it without OS X.

most pre-g3 macs can run os x. just run xpostfacto beforehand.

personally, i prefer netbsd. trying to get netbsd to boot without os9 on my beige g3 was about as fun as spooning out my eye balls without anesthesia. but it sure impresses the mac people.

 

bluestrobe

Platinum Member
Aug 15, 2004
2,033
1
0
Originally posted by: jhu most pre-g3 macs can run os x. just run xpostfacto beforehand.

To run xpostfacto you need to have OS9.2.2 installed, which is another "restricted hardware" OS Mac has to offer. So you have to find a hack for that too.

 

imported_Lucifer

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 2004
5,139
1
0
To run xpostfacto you need to have OS9.2.2 installed, which is another "restricted hardware" OS Mac has to offer. So you have to find a hack for that too.

Not true. The minimum to run XpostFacto is 9.0 Want proof?

I quote:

XPostFacto does not run in Mac OS 8, so you need to have at least Mac OS 9.0 installed to use it. XPostFacto will run in Mac OS 9.0, 9.1 or 9.2. (It requires Mac OS 9.x in order to be able to copy files with long filenames from the Mac OS X Install CD to your hard drive).

Here is the page where I got the info from

I recommend having OS 9.2.2 for Classic, because some apps require OS 9.2.2, but you do need a hack to run OS 9.2.2 on legacy macs. But you do not need OS 9.2.2 to run Xpostfacto.
 
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