Where does electricity come from?

[DrPizza]

I'm amazed that people are laughing about that 4th grade textbook's blurb about electricity, yet without googling, most of you also wouldn't be able to define electricity. Or rather, you wouldn't be able to define electricity in a consistent manner. (I've stated this before, several times.) The term "electricity" is used by most people in every day conversations, the same way that the word "smurf" is used in conversations by the smurf.

And, that's just fine. But, when you're trying to give it a real, solid definition that everyone agrees on, you're going to fail. There's potential difference, current, energy, power... all sorts of related phenomena under the electricity umbrella. But, different people define electricity the same way they define these individual terms - and since those terms are all discrete concepts, the definitions are contradictory.

 

[Cogman]

And, that's just fine. But, when you're trying to give it a real, solid definition that everyone agrees on, you're going to fail. There's potential difference, current, energy, power... all sorts of related phenomena under the electricity umbrella. But, different people define electricity the same way they define these individual terms - and since those terms are all discrete concepts, the definitions are contradictory.

I disagree. The definition found in the wikipedia is about as good as it gets

"Electricity is the science, engineering, technology and physical phenomena associated with the presence and flow of electric charges."

The terms you listed are properties of electricity, not electricity itself. It is like saying "You can't define what light is because it has a wavelength, energy, and momentum. those are all different things!".

 

[MrMuppet]

I'm amazed that people are laughing about that 4th grade textbook's blurb about electricity, yet without googling, most of you also wouldn't be able to define electricity. Or rather, you wouldn't be able to define electricity in a consistent manner. (I've stated this before, several times.) The term "electricity" is used by most people in every day conversations, the same way that the word "smurf" is used in conversations by the smurf.

And, that's just fine. But, when you're trying to give it a real, solid definition that everyone agrees on, you're going to fail. There's potential difference, current, energy, power... all sorts of related phenomena under the electricity umbrella. But, different people define electricity the same way they define these individual terms - and since those terms are all discrete concepts, the definitions are contradictory.

So, the electricity we use does come from the sun?

("Source" could mean anything and the source of the sun is...)

 

[RPD]

No one has ever felt it?

Get a knife, stick it in a live outlet. Report back if you feel anything.

 

[Crono]

I'm amazed that people are laughing about that 4th grade textbook's blurb about electricity, yet without googling, most of you also wouldn't be able to define electricity. Or rather, you wouldn't be able to define electricity in a consistent manner. (I've stated this before, several times.) The term "electricity" is used by most people in every day conversations, the same way that the word "smurf" is used in conversations by the smurf.

And, that's just fine. But, when you're trying to give it a real, solid definition that everyone agrees on, you're going to fail. There's potential difference, current, energy, power... all sorts of related phenomena under the electricity umbrella. But, different people define electricity the same way they define these individual terms - and since those terms are all discrete concepts, the definitions are contradictory.

I've seen "the flow of electrons" (or similar enough phrases) as being the standard definition of what electricity is more often than anything else. Granted, I have heard it defined in physics versus other contexts in different ways, but that's what leapt to mind.

 

[DrPizza]

Well, he is right. We know that magnetism exists, that it is VERY closely related to electricity, and that right down to the quark, everything appears to have a north and south pole.

What we don't know is why. Why are there magnetic poles? Why is there an attraction between two opposite magnetic poles? Why do magnets do what they do?

We really don't know the answers to those questions. They just work, and so we use them.

Gravity is much the same way. We have many unanswered questions to why things are attracted to each other.

I posted this in another thread recently. There's something a little silly about "why?" questions. The answers have to be built within a framework of something we understand. But, no matter where you start with a why question, you can always keep going with subsequent why questions until there isn't an answer. Sometimes, there is no why. "It's that way, simply because that's the way it is." People aren't often satisfied with that answer.

 

[DrPizza]

I disagree. The definition found in the wikipedia is about as good as it gets

"Electricity is the science, engineering, technology and physical phenomena associated with the presence and flow of electric charges."

The terms you listed are properties of electricity, not electricity itself. It is like saying "You can't define what light is because it has a wavelength, energy, and momentum. those are all different things!".

I suppose it is about as good as it gets. Now, look in this thread. We see Crono saying that it's most commonly defined as the flow of electrons. That definition leads to a large problem. What about alternating current? The electrons just more or less wiggle back and forth. Hmmmm.

Go to google, search for definition of electricity. The FIRST answer on Google is: A form of energy resulting from the existence of charged particles (such as electrons or protons), either statically as an accumulation...

Damn. Now it's energy.

Let's check Mirriam-Webster's definition. Hey! It's 4 different things: charges, current, power, and a science that deals with the phenomena and laws of electricity. (But this time, it's not energy.) http://www.merriam-webster.com/medical/electricity


Oxford dictionary describes electricity as a form of energy. http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/electricity


So, while I'm mostly satisfied with wikipedia's definition, it appears (and I backed it up) that there's no universal agreed upon definition. As I said, we use the word the way smurfs use the word smurf. Multiple and sometimes contradictory meanings.


I think I found this link before; it's something I read about a decade ago from William Beatty:
http://amasci.com/miscon/whatis.html

 

[Crono]

I think I found this link before; it's something I read about a decade ago from William Beatty:
http://amasci.com/miscon/whatis.html

I guess I'm going to pull a Bill Clinton if anyone asks me what electricity is, and say "that depends on what your definition of "is" is.

If I follow Beatty's advice, though, I guess I can only truthfully discuss electricity (or, rather, the many concepts associated with the term "electricity") with people who have at least a rudimentary understanding of physics... or settle for a definition that is a gross oversimplification.

 

[dr150]

Electricity is generated by mice running continuously on a revolving wheel.
.
.
Everybody knows this!

 

[StrangerGuy]

Not understanding science is one thing but attributing it to magic is a symptom of stupid.

 

[Rubycon]

Well, a higher voltage will ionize things at longer distances. I think that might be what the article was confusing. It is part of the reason we don't run very high voltages (and those voltages are decreasing), we don't want it to arc over the transistor gates.

That potential is much higher than what's used for customer loads (typically 120-500VAC, etc.)

For things inside the computer running on DC higher voltage on the primaries is preferred for better efficiency and requirements for conductor size are lower. This is why European wiring (230V) has advantage over 120V systems in the USA. Twice the power is available at a wall socket for same given conductor size. SMPS also runs a few % more efficient as well.

We commonly use plumbing (water) analogies with electrical primarily when explaining pressure (voltage) and flow (current), conductor size (pipe diameter). One difference though - when a pipe breaks all the water squirts out. When a wire breaks the flow simply stops. Now if we could only make plumbing do that!

 

[Red Squirrel]

I started playing with electricity as a little kid. As far as I was concerned that plug in the wall was a source of amazing unlimited energy. 3vdc motors or wire wrapped around a nail 10 times did not like it for some reason.

 

[CLite]

I've seen "the flow of electrons"

Pretty much this, I don't see what's so mysterious about electricity.

 

[Red Squirrel]

We commonly use plumbing (water) analogies with electrical primarily when explaining pressure (voltage) and flow (current), conductor size (pipe diameter). One difference though - when a pipe breaks all the water squirts out. When a wire breaks the flow simply stops. Now if we could only make plumbing do that!

I always thought it would be cool if they made "water panels" basically same concept as an electrical panel. Each water outlet would be it's on connection with a "breaker" valve, basically some kind of solenoid. The end of the outlet would have a pressure or flow rate guage, and the breaker itself would too. If the breaker detects a flow higher than the end, then there's a leak, so it would turn off. Of course it would be more expensive and involved to setup but think how much it could save your ass if a pipe breaks. It's incredible how fast a basement can flood when you have 150PSI of water coming out of a 1/2 hole.

 

[techs]

I'm amazed that people are laughing about that 4th grade textbook's blurb about electricity,

What I am laughing at, and are appalled by, is the way it tries to tell us that even such a well understood physical effect as electricity is so amazingly unknowable that it must be God at work.

 

[techs]

Electricity is made of smoke. I thought everyone knew that. It's so obvious.

When you see the smoke escape from a wire or component, the equipment stops working. That's because the smoke has leaked out.

It's so simple really

 

[dmcowen674]

Where does electricity come from?

My balls

Just ask any girl as her eyes light up

 

[Rubycon]

I always thought it would be cool if they made "water panels" basically same concept as an electrical panel. Each water outlet would be it's on connection with a "breaker" valve, basically some kind of solenoid. The end of the outlet would have a pressure or flow rate guage, and the breaker itself would too. If the breaker detects a flow higher than the end, then there's a leak, so it would turn off. Of course it would be more expensive and involved to setup but think how much it could save your ass if a pipe breaks. It's incredible how fast a basement can flood when you have 150PSI of water coming out of a 1/2 hole.

It would have to be self powered. Fluidic design is complex and depending on what you're moving it can be very difficult to design reliability over time. Often this requires extensive testing and use of exotic materials. ALGOR helps too.

A somewhat simple "open flow" trip that would cause a stopper to halt flow on the main supply could work. Even the pressure drop from multiple toilet flushes while the washer is filling, dishwasher is in use and someone is showering would be different than say a full blowout (broken 3/4" pipe in a cellar, etc.) Of course it would not prevent damage from a stuck float in a humidifier. Leak frogs take care of that role.

My balls

Just ask any girl as her eyes light up

Radius of balls (for spark gaps) is quite an important parameter in these designs but I'm willing to wager a few hundred kV that you were thinking of something else.

 

[Red Squirrel]

It would have to be self powered. Fluidic design is complex and depending on what you're moving it can be very difficult to design reliability over time. Often this requires extensive testing and use of exotic materials. ALGOR helps too.

A somewhat simple "open flow" trip that would cause a stopper to halt flow on the main supply could work. Even the pressure drop from multiple toilet flushes while the washer is filling, dishwasher is in use and someone is showering would be different than say a full blowout (broken 3/4" pipe in a cellar, etc.) Of course it would not prevent damage from a stuck float in a humidifier. Leak frogs take care of that role.

Yeah there would definitely be some things to consider, and it would basically be a mini computer, which can fail. It would have to be smart enough to not react on a sudden pressure drop if a circuit is in operation, for example. For the solenoids they could probably be designed in a way that if the power supply fails, they stay in their existing state and not just act like a relay. Or the whole system could shut down, but in most cases this would be undesirable. Could be some settings that are configured by the user depending on level of paranoia. I imagine it would not use too much power so you'd have a battery in there and be good for like 5 hours, especially if the solenoids are not actually relay type where there is a constant current draw. But considering the amount of time a house gets damaged by water guess it's not worth it and most people would not bother unless it became code and/or required by insurance companies. Might be a little overkill.

 

[Rubycon]

In a truly self powered system there would be no computers nor solenoids. Everything would be mechanical. If there are electronic parts everything has to fail closed and that's fine as long as a suitable manual override (bypass) is fitted so a human can resolve an issue in an emergency as long as they know how.

Batteries are not reliable enough, the draw is low enough that beta-photovoltaic power could be utilized. 30ci/mm would provide a steady power for 25 years...

 

[AFurryReptile]

+1 Atheists

 

[natto fire]

I always call it a potential between earth and sky. It can be trapped in conductors, but it always wants to go home to earth.

I am a contract "electrician" and have trained a few people, I try get real simple to explain it to others who have an irrational fear of electrocution.

Ohm's law and whatnot can grow from there, but I first try to establish what electricity wants to do, and remind folks to let it do it's thing.

If that doesn't work then I say it doesn't matter because our sun will eventually go supernova and reclaim what it gave us.

Does this laughable textbook have a chapter on gravity? It is kind of in the same boat as far as being magical.

 

[ringtail]

``

 

[IAteYourMother]

magnets are weird.

 

[BudAshes]

...careful...


Nikola might hear you...


and he knew things (circa 1800s) that are

still classified TOP SECRET in 2012


so....

careful....

(this society still has NO FRIGGIN' CLUE what a surppasingly stupendious G E N I U S Nikola was...we are taught to celebrate Einstein instead...Albert couldn't tie Nikola's shoes-Nikola Tesla was somethging so extraordinary he ranks with, or above, Plato, Aristotle, Aquinas, ANYBODY---this material world was NOT able to comprehend the gift God gave in Nikola Tesla- radio, x-ray, electric motors, etc. my God!)

I've always wondered if Nikola Tesla would be more well known if the people talking up his virtues didn't always sound so damn crazy.