Which notebook processor?

[Jeff7181]

90% of what I do is going to be relatively light work... Office 2003, some media playback. But eventually my schooling will require that I learn Virtual PC, and I would like to be able to play around with it easily on the laptop.

So my question is, will a Core Duo T2300 be worth the added cost over a Pentium M 740? It's my understanding that the Core Duo T2300E does NOT support virtualization, while the plain T2300 does. What other differences will I need to keep in mind for that? Does the Pentium M support virtualization?

I'm also assuming 1 GB of RAM is pretty much going to be a requirement for running a virtual machine.

I'm trying to keep the price around $1000... would it be worth giving up a Core Duo in favor of more RAM? Say 2 GB vs. 1 GB?

I don't intend to do any gaming... if I did it would be the occasional WoW sessions to do some crafting or chat with the guild. The 14 inch screen would pretty much take care of any urge to spend hours playing games on it.

 

[Voodoorabbit]

As far as I am concerned, the core dual T2300e draws less power, about 15W. But generally speaking, pentium is about a notch higher in quality than the core dual. That's why there is a price differece between celeron, core dual and pentium. Pentium is the best, then core dual, and then celeron.

btw: by virtual machine, you mean Java? Will a notebook of 512mb RAM be able to run Java?

 

[Jeff7181]

No, I mean Virtual PC or VMware. The Core Duo T2300E does draw less power, but it also doesn't support virtualization, which is something I think I need in order to get the most out of it.

 

[AmigaMan]

interesting, I didn't know the t2300e didn't support virtualization. But I can tell you, the more memory the better. I'm thinking 1GB at a bare minimum, 2GB if you can afford it. Running Parallels Workstation and XP Pro on my MBP feels a lot snappier now that I have 2GB. Ubuntu Linux on my old Dell Inspiron 9200 (Pentium M 1.8Ghz/2GB) running VMware Player and XP was pretty snappy too. Since you're not interested in games, I'd recommend maxing out the RAM, upping the HD speed to a 7200RPM drive, and then worrying about the CPU.

 

[Suture]

The T2X00 processors not being able to run virtualization software is new to me. I haven't heard anything indicating it can or can't. However here's a good write-up on the M vs the Core Duo: http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2648

In any case, I would go for the Core Duo any day. And I would recommend 2GB of RAM for virtualization. That stuff is a pig.

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: Suture
The T2X00 processors not being able to run virtualization software is new to me. I haven't heard anything indicating it can or can't. However here's a good write-up on the M vs the Core Duo: http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2648

In any case, I would go for the Core Duo any day. And I would recommend 2GB of RAM for virtualization. That stuff is a pig.

It's not all T2x00 processors that don't feature virtualization, just the T2300e... or any other model with an e .

 

[6000SUX]

Originally posted by: Voodoorabbit
As far as I am concerned, the core dual T2300e draws less power, about 15W. But generally speaking, pentium is about a notch higher in quality than the core dual. That's why there is a price differece between celeron, core dual and pentium. Pentium is the best, then core dual, and then celeron.

btw: by virtual machine, you mean Java? Will a notebook of 512mb RAM be able to run Java?

WTF are you talking about? I don't think cluebies should try to give advice. You don't even know the correct name of the processor, or anything about virtualization.

 

[Viper GTS]

Couple things...

First off, hardware virtualization is not necessary for Virtual PC, VMWare, etc. So I wouldn't worry too much about that.

Second, if you can afford it get the Core Duo. There is absolutely no question as to which is the better CPU, the price is the only negative.

Oh and for Virtual PC you're probably going to want a lot more than 1 GB. 2 GB at the absolute minimum.

Viper GTS

 

[Jeff7181]

Thanks for the info. I don't intend to use Virtual PC on the laptop heavily, basically just as a learning tool. May use it for some Linux work when I learn about that, but if the performance in Virtual PC would suffer much I'd probably just dual boot.

 

[AmigaMan]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
Couple things...

First off, hardware virtualization is not necessary for Virtual PC, VMWare, etc. So I wouldn't worry too much about that.

Second, if you can afford it get the Core Duo. There is absolutely no question as to which is the better CPU, the price is the only negative.

Oh and for Virtual PC you're probably going to want a lot more than 1 GB. 2 GB at the absolute minimum.

Viper GTS

While I'd recommend more than 2GB too for VMs, getting it into a laptop is pretty hard, not to mention outrageously expensive for those laptops that support it. The OP wanted to keep it at about $1K, so you have to make a choice between RAM and CPU. Since a Pentium M is fast enough for what he wants to do, there's no point in getting a Core Duo when he can spend that money on extra RAM. A P-M is plenty fast still and chances are equally clocked versions of each CPU wouldn't be that noticeable to the vast majority of users.

Of course if one can afford both the Core Duo and 2GB then you should definitely get them.

 

[Jeff7181]

Hmmm... given only the following choices for running Virtual PC...

Pentium M 740 with 2 GB of DDR2-533
-or-
Core Duo T2400 with 1 GB of DDR2-667

What about for Windows Vista when it comes out?

*EDIT* Keep in mind, I will be using Virtual PC for educational purposes, not because I actually need to or will be doing any significant work in a virtual machine. Although the convenience of being able to learn a Linux distro with it running in a virtual machine rather than dual booting might be nice.

 

[6000SUX]

Originally posted by: AmigaMan
While I'd recommend more than 2GB too for VMs, getting it into a laptop is pretty hard, not to mention outrageously expensive for those laptops that support it. The OP wanted to keep it at about $1K, so you have to make a choice between RAM and CPU. Since a Pentium M is fast enough for what he wants to do, there's no point in getting a Core Duo when he can spend that money on extra RAM. A P-M is plenty fast still and chances are equally clocked versions of each CPU wouldn't be that noticeable to the vast majority of users.

Of course if one can afford both the Core Duo and 2GB then you should definitely get them.

I wouldn't. There's really no need for it for most people who use Virtual PC.

 

[6000SUX]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Hmmm... given only the following choices for running Virtual PC...

Pentium M 740 with 2 GB of DDR2-533
-or-
Core Duo T2400 with 1 GB of DDR2-667

What about for Windows Vista when it comes out?

*EDIT* Keep in mind, I will be using Virtual PC for educational purposes, not because I actually need to or will be doing any significant work in a virtual machine. Although the convenience of being able to learn a Linux distro with it running in a virtual machine rather than dual booting might be nice.

There's no question that the dual core choice would be better for you. You can still use Virtual PC just fine, and you can easily upgrade the RAM a couple of years down the road, unlike the processor. The extra RAM would likely be wasted right now anyway. I haven't looked up the latest Vista compatibility requirements, but I remember reading a quote from Microsoft that any machine with at least 512MB of RAM (in addition to other specs) would run Vista very well.

 

[AmigaMan]

Originally posted by: 6000SUX
you can easily upgrade the RAM a couple of years down the road, unlike the processor.

That's true, didn't think about that. I still feel more memory is more important than CPU when we're talking about these two versions though.

that any machine with at least 512MB of RAM (in addition to other specs) would run Vista very well.

Right....and I have some swamp land in Nevada to sell you too. 1GB is the minimum you should get for any machine these days if you plan on doing more than opening your web browser.

As a software developer, when I use Parallels Workstation to play with IE, I typically don't shut down my other applications to do so. But when I had only 1GB of RAM, everything slowed to a crawl.

 

[Kenazo]

Go w/ the T2300 and 1 gig of ram, add the other gig when you actually need it.

 

[6000SUX]

Originally posted by: AmigaMan

Originally posted by: 6000SUX
you can easily upgrade the RAM a couple of years down the road, unlike the processor.

That's true, didn't think about that. I still feel more memory is more important than CPU when we're talking about these two versions though.

that any machine with at least 512MB of RAM (in addition to other specs) would run Vista very well.

Right....and I have some swamp land in Nevada to sell you too. 1GB is the minimum you should get for any machine these days if you plan on doing more than opening your web browser.

As a software developer, when I use Parallels Workstation to play with IE, I typically don't shut down my other applications to do so. But when I had only 1GB of RAM, everything slowed to a crawl.

Well, you're just one person, and you're using a Mac. 768MB runs many applications just fine for Windows power users. I can tell you from experience developing both Java and Microsoft applications for many years that 1GB is a little bit of overkill even for most development workstations-- but I never need to use virtualization during development, since I use Windows OS. I have Virtual PC set up on a desktop to test browser stuff on different versions, and we have an older Mac running at work.

If I take you literally at your word, if I want to run a web browser and Microsoft Office at the same time I need 1GB. Any Windows user will tell you that's not even close to the truth. I can have the web browser, Office, Eclipse (with a fair-sized project), Visual Studio .NET (with a fair-sized solution), a text editor, and antivirus running without using 512MB. The main performance benefit of installing 1GB for most people is that the OS is then free to use much more memory for pre-caching disk information.

It's really silly to tell someone to install 2GB just because he may use virtualization for a class.

512MB is skimping a bit, but it will run Windows just fine. There's no really good reason to assume that Microsoft is lying to people when they give pre-release numbers on Vista, which will have many performance enhancements and not necessarily at the expense of RAM use. Windows XP (and even more 2000) run fine on 256MB, well on 512MB. The new OS's visual "enhancements" will use the graphics card more than anything.

 

[Jeff7181]

Very logical and rational thought process, 6000SUX. That's the kinda input I like. Whether you're right or wrong, I'll probably take your advice simply because you supported your opinion better and go with the faster CPU and add more RAM as I need it.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Core Duo

 

[Omizzle]

Core Duo FTW

 

[jevans64]

Not only would I choose the Core Duo over the Pentium M, but I would probably up your budget a bit and go with a T2400 or T2500 as the added cost isn't really that much ( at least through Dell when looking at the E1405 -- which carries up to a 34% discount now ). RAM can always be upgraded cheaper through 3rd-party sources and THAT usually involves just popping off a plate.

So. This 'book would set you back $2357 + S&H, MINUS the 34% instant discount, would make it $1556 + S&H. Note that I took the liberty of adding WinXP, Bluetooth, Audigy upgrade, and a beefier battery for more uptime

# Inspiron E1405 Dual Core


Date 6/4/2006 2:34:18 PM Central Standard Time
Catalog Number 29 Retail 19
Catalog Number / Description Product Code SKU Id
Inspiron E1405:
Intel® Core? processor Duo T2500 (2MB Cache/2.00GHz/667MHz FSB) BRD2HN [222-1634] 1
Operating System (Office software not included):
Genuine Windows® XP Professional WPXP [420-5769][420-5924][463-2282][420-4830][420-5460][420-5476][412-0689][412-070
][420-4770] 11
Operating System Re-Installation CD:
Genuine Windows® XP Professional backup CD XPPMED [310-6845] 135
LCD Panel:
14.1 inch WXGA+ UltraSharp? TFT Display with TrueLife? 14SXGAS [320-4697] 2
Memory:
1GB DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz, 2 Dimm 1G2D [311-5849] 3
Hard Drive:
60GB 7200RPM Sata Hard Drive 60GB72 [341-3212] 8
Combo/DVD+RW Drives:
FREE! 8X CD/DVD Burner (DVD+/-RW) with double-layer DVD+R write capability 8XDVDRP [420-5784][420-5790][465-2946] 16
Wireless Networking Cards:
Intel PRO/Wireless 3945 802.11a/g Mini Card (54Mbps) IP3945 [430-1560] 19
Wireless Personal Networking Card:
Dell Wireless 350 Bluetooth Internal (2.0 + Enhance Data Rate) TM350I [430-1559] 71
Video Card:
Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator 950 INTVID [320-4698] 6
Sound Options:
Integrated Sound Blaster® Audigy® ADVANCED HD Audio SBAHD [313-4234] 17
Primary Battery:
85 WHr 9-cell Lithium Ion Primary Battery 9BAT [312-0411] 27
Office Software (not included in Windows XP):
Microsoft Office Basic - Includes Word, Excel, and Outlook email IBASICC [412-0452] 22
Network Card and Modem:
Integrated 10/100 Network Card and Modem INTNIC [430-1574] 13
Hardware Warranty:
2Yr Ltd Warranty, 2Yr At-Home Service, and 2Yr HW Warranty Support S2OS [420-5769][420-5924][463-2282][420-4830][420-5460][420-5476][412-0689][412-070
][420-4770] [983-2207][983-2217][950-3338][960-6590][960-6910][412-0360][900-8221][950-100
] 29
Anti-Virus/Security Suite (Pre-installed):
SAVE! McAfee Security Center VirusScan, Firewall, Spyware Removal, 36 Month MCAF3P1 [465-4465] 25
Dell Digital Entertainment:
Deluxe Entertainment Pack - Starter plus a total Music and Photo package DEP [412-0856][412-0866] 399
Enhanced Software for CD or DVD Burner:
Combo: Sonic DigitalMedia and MyDVD Plus (DVD+RW only) RNDVDLX [420-5795] 72
Adobe Software:
Adobe® Acrobat® Reader 6.0 ADOBER [430-1048] 15
Dial-Up Internet Access:
6 Months America Online Internet Access Included AOLDHS [412-0787][420-3224][420-5256][412-0687] 37
Mobile Broadband:
No Broadband Expresscard technology is available in the market now NOBB [465-0505] 114



OT...

Does AmigaMan still own an Amiga? I still have Amiga T-Shirts. :lol

 

[Jeff7181]

Not interested in an Inspiron and all the extra crap that comes with them.

 

[dclive]

Core Duo.

Get a gig now, get another gig later.

Check bensbargains.net / ****** / gotapex.com every other day or two and you'll see all the deals out there.

MacBooks are kinda nifty though - $1099 (save $100 at Amazon.com on all the models) to start isn't half bad, and Parallels (to run XP in a virtual session) is $50 or so....

 

[Jeff7181]

I considered a MacBook but I have no experience with Macs and since this is for school I need something I'm familiar with so it doesn't prevent me from doing what I need to do for school.

 

[Jeff7181]

Well they had 22% off the D520 as well so here's what I ordered. Thanks everyone for your input.


Latitude D520 Intel® Core? Duo T2400 667Mhz Dual Core

Operating Systems Genuine Windows XP Professional, SP2, with media
LCDs 14.1 inch XGA LCD Panel
Memory 1.0GB, DDR2-667 SDRAM, 2 DIMMS
Internal English Keyboard
Hard Drives 80GB Hard Drive, 9.5MM, 5400RPM
AC Adapter 65W A/C Adapter
Module Bay Devices 24X CD-RW/DVD w/ Cyberlink PowerDVD?
Wireless LAN (802.11) Intel® 3945 802.11a/g Dual-band Mini Card
Resource CD Resource CD - Contains Diagnostics and Drivers
Batteries 6 Cell Primary Battery
Carrying Cases Nylon light weight Large Carrying Case
Hardware Support Service 1 Year Mail-In Economy Plan
File System NTFS File System for all Operating Systems
Reference Guide Quick Reference Guide

TOTAL:$1,148.94

 

[Jeff7181]

Woot, delivered yesterday! I love it... very happy I went with dual core... feels more responsive than my 2.5 Ghz A64 desktop.