No because the only two traits that are attributed to "God" are omnipotence and benevolence. The two traits + a thing from which nothing higher can be conceived = the definition of God.
No rational and compassionate entity would let evil occur.
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Nebor
Originally posted by: kogase
Originally posted by: mwtgg
Why should someone be forced to disprove a claim that can't even be validated by those who make it?
No one's forcing you. But if you want to make the statement that God does not exist, you have to prove it.
Easily proved.
Children are raped every day. Any being capable of stopping such actions would. Since those actions occur anyway, it's clear that there is no God. Or, alternately, that Jesus is a pedophile.
Irrelevant. Your argument is emotional. It assumes the human desire to have some authority stop the tragedies of our own making. For all we know God is a twisted sadistic fsck. Or simply does not interfere to stop the evils of our own making. Or perhaps those evils serve a purpose to God. We cannot know.
Satanism is an illogical exercise in vanity and egotism. If theism is the exercise of the golden rule, then satanism is the blatant breaking of the golden rule. As positive self-interest is the surest method to peace and self-preservation, the practice of satanism is vain self-destruction. Suicide in denial. Misguided nihilism.Originally posted by: Vegitto
Missing mine .
Originally posted by: PaulNEPats
I have a feeling that a lot of the so-called Atheists on this board, will turn to God at their final hours when their long journey finally comes to an end.
Originally posted by: chambersc
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Nebor
Originally posted by: kogase
Originally posted by: mwtgg
Why should someone be forced to disprove a claim that can't even be validated by those who make it?
No one's forcing you. But if you want to make the statement that God does not exist, you have to prove it.
Easily proved.
Children are raped every day. Any being capable of stopping such actions would. Since those actions occur anyway, it's clear that there is no God. Or, alternately, that Jesus is a pedophile.
Irrelevant. Your argument is emotional. It assumes the human desire to have some authority stop the tragedies of our own making. For all we know God is a twisted sadistic fsck. Or simply does not interfere to stop the evils of our own making. Or perhaps those evils serve a purpose to God. We cannot know.
No because the only two traits that are attributed to "God" are omnipotence and benevolence. The two traits + a thing from which nothing higher can be conceived = the definition of God.
No rational and compassionate entity would let evil occur.
Originally posted by: chambersc
No because the only two traits that are attributed to "God" are omnipotence and benevolence. The two traits + a thing from which nothing higher can be conceived = the definition of God.
No rational and compassionate entity would let evil occur.
Originally posted by: engineereeyore
Originally posted by: chambersc
No because the only two traits that are attributed to "God" are omnipotence and benevolence. The two traits + a thing from which nothing higher can be conceived = the definition of God.
No rational and compassionate entity would let evil occur.
I'm sure that your definition of God then would be that God is good. How can good exist without evil? Everything must have an opposite. You can't know love without hate/dislike. You can't know good without evil. If there was no evil, actions would simply be actions. We would have no consept of what good is because everything is exactly the way it is.
Any rational being that wants his children to learn and to grow would allow them to experience good and evil, pleasure and pain, joy and sorrow. But he would also provide help to them in their times of need. Doesn't mean he'll stop the bad things from happening, but that he'll help us when they do.
Originally posted by: Vic
Ah... Mormonisitic dualism. Sigh...
The simple answer is that the only thing "evil" in the world is your perception of it. Otherwise, what is... IS. Utopian thinking merely demonstrates personal bitterness on the part of the utopist. And whose fault is that?
Originally posted by: engineereeyore
Originally posted by: Vic
Ah... Mormonisitic dualism. Sigh...
The simple answer is that the only thing "evil" in the world is your perception of it. Otherwise, what is... IS. Utopian thinking merely demonstrates personal bitterness on the part of the utopist. And whose fault is that?
That may be the simple answer, but that doesn't mean it's right.
Yes, perception has a lot to do with what we consider right and what we consider wrong, but the fact still remains that one can not exist without the other. It has nothing to do with bitterness or excellent, but impractical, ideals. It's simple truth.
It'll come sooner than that; it'll happen when they reach a point, usually between 20 and 25, where the instinct to rebel has run its course and they heed their biological impulse to believe in a deity. In the meanwhile they'll make threads like this very entertaining As will those who've abused LSD *eyes the alien*Originally posted by: PaulNEPats
I have a feeling that a lot of the so-called Atheists on this board, will turn to God at their final hours when their long journey finally comes to an end.
Originally posted by: engineereeyore
Originally posted by: chambersc
No because the only two traits that are attributed to "God" are omnipotence and benevolence. The two traits + a thing from which nothing higher can be conceived = the definition of God.
No rational and compassionate entity would let evil occur.
I'm sure that your definition of God then would be that God is good. How can good exist without evil? Everything must have an opposite. You can't know love without hate/dislike. You can't know good without evil. If there was no evil, actions would simply be actions. We would have no consept of what good is because everything is exactly the way it is.
Any rational being that wants his children to learn and to grow would allow them to experience good and evil, pleasure and pain, joy and sorrow. But he would also provide help to them in their times of need. Doesn't mean he'll stop the bad things from happening, but that he'll help us when they do.
Originally posted by: Vic
Sorry, no, that is wrong. A thing is not defined as the absence of its opposite. Perception has everything to do with what we consider right and wrong. That does not mean that right and wrong/good and evil are not objective and real (of course they are), what it does mean is that without our perceptions, they would not exist.
Originally posted by: chambersc
While I acknowledge you points, I don't agree with them. If we didn't know what we know now then then we wouldn't know anything bad and can't adequately qualify life back then. Follow? If we inherently knew no evil then we can't compare this life with what could have been. It's simply impossible and illogical.
Originally posted by: engineereeyore
Originally posted by: chambersc
While I acknowledge you points, I don't agree with them. If we didn't know what we know now then then we wouldn't know anything bad and can't adequately qualify life back then. Follow? If we inherently knew no evil then we can't compare this life with what could have been. It's simply impossible and illogical.
Not sure I do follow, sorry. Why would you think we inherently knew no evil?
Originally posted by: chambersc
because it was the choice to seek knowledge that opened up everything else (including evil). it's like this -- in Eden we were at 0 knowledge (albeit 100% happiness). when the apple from the tree of knowledge was consumed it was +infinity (and somewhere in there was evil). by giving us the choice, "God" knew that we would come to understand evil.
Originally posted by: PaulNEPats
I have a feeling that a lot of the so-called Atheists on this board, will turn to God at their final hours when their long journey finally comes to an end.
Originally posted by: bluemax
Originally posted by: PaulNEPats
I have a feeling that a lot of the so-called Atheists on this board, will turn to God at their final hours when their long journey finally comes to an end.
Or shaking their fists at the sky come the next tragedy in their lives. Belive long enough to curse at God - then it's back to "me time".
For those that don't think atheism is not a religion, it sure is a way of life - including "spreading the word" as loudly and rudely as possible (in the vast majority of cases.)
This, and every other religion thread, are case in point.