Who has the best quality?

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flexcore

Member
Jul 4, 2010
193
0
0
I agree that it really differs from board to board, no company is perfect. That said I have been very pleased with gigabyte. It seems they have a good QC, features, price and I too enjoy their fan control options in the bios. It seems that ASUS has some issues with QC. If you get a good bord that works from them, then you''l love it and it's a tank but alot of people seem to get DOA boards. Seems more so than other brands. This could be why alot of people love ASUS and alot hate them. MSI is one that I just have had alot of issues with, could be just my luck with them. I try to stay away as much as I can.
 

djnsmith7

Platinum Member
Apr 13, 2004
2,612
1
0
I've primarily always used Asus boards, but have also used MSI, which I won't use anymore.

I personally really like the Asus Republic of Gamers boards, as they're great for OC'ng & have a ton of options & the accessories are nice, too. But of course, these boards carry a premium.

Their new TUF boards look pretty cool & are supposed to offer better cooling options, among other things.

I would like to try a higher end Evga board one of these days, just not one that has a part # that ends in TR.
 

Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
21,476
13
81
I agree that it really differs from board to board, no company is perfect. That said I have been very pleased with gigabyte. It seems they have a good QC, features, price and I too enjoy their fan control options in the bios. It seems that ASUS has some issues with QC. If you get a good bord that works from them, then you''l love it and it's a tank but alot of people seem to get DOA boards. Seems more so than other brands. This could be why alot of people love ASUS and alot hate them. MSI is one that I just have had alot of issues with, could be just my luck with them. I try to stay away as much as I can.

I never had issues with MSI or any board/brand I have owned unless you count leaking caps on my old Epox board when Asus,Abit and virtually all the brands were having the same issues,Asus owners are having a few BIOS problems right now with the P67 Pro http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18226900 ,personally its apples and oranges there is no best quality since you can buy a cheap board and get years out of it with no issues and vice versa,pot luck end of the day.

Using quality components can help but end of the day no motherboard/company is perfect.
 

Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
21,476
13
81
Pure marketing there, nothing else.

I have to disagree,taken from the review,
You may also notice that the traditional solid capacitors are missing from around the CPU socket. This is because MSI has upgraded them with Hi-c CAP (Highly-conductive polymerized capacitor) featuring Tantalum Core. MSI claims that Hi-c CAP last 8x longer than traditional capacitors and result in better overall cooling due to their lower profile.

Hi-c CAP is part MSI's Military Class II components that also include Super Ferrite Chokes and Solid Caps with a 10 year lifetime. SFCs feature 30% higher current capacity and 10% power efficiency improvement which should result in better overclocking power stability.


http://www.ocia.net/reviews/p67agd65/page3.shtml .

I would rather have higher quality components then cheaper ones if pricing is competitive to the competition.
 

mlc

Senior member
Jan 22, 2005
445
0
0
I've used mostly ASUS boards, as they've always had a rep for good quality , and equally important, the most bang for the buck , in terms of features (i.e. on board stuff and number of ports/slots, etc.).... but I did have one fail back in the Nforce 4 days...

Currently runnin a GIGABYTE .. and i can tell you the quality of construction and stablilty (voltage and heatsink design) of the board is equal or better than any of my past ASUS boards.. So I think it's pretty much a coin toss between these 2 brands.. most of it honestly will depend on where a particular model is in its lifecycle of a particular chipset when you buy it... If you go with bleeding edge, first revision boards, then you can expect a few issues... especially if you intend on abusing it with overclocking, etc.. If you hold out and go with a 2nd revision board, then you can expect fewer problems... Nothing earth shattering there ... so do your homework....

Also .. i would speculate that many users have "mis diagnosed" problems as board related, when they may have been due to other issues. Up until about a year or so ago, there were a lot of issue due to underestimating psu requirements, resulting in incorrect assumptions about some mobo's... Once again.. if you go bleeding edge.. you'll stub you toe a few times...
 

aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
21,019
3,490
126
Pure marketing there, nothing else.

you think that til it was stated by a few of the oc guru's that none of there boards failed during an OC competition in which they broke the WR more then once in a spawn of less then 10 min. :sneaky:

Guys after meeting with the guys @ MSI, im even tempted to try out one of there military class II boards.
 
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Rubycon

Madame President
Aug 10, 2005
17,768
485
126
A good friend of mine is a retired engineer that has been doing contracts for US Mil and NASA. He said it's BS. I tend to believe his experience over marketeers and reviewers that have no experience in those fields.

Of course it does not mean a hill of beans to what the differences may be but to claim a product is built to military spec or has military grade components is ridiculous.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
126
Guys after meeting with the guys @ MSI, im even tempted to try out one of there military class II boards.

I had:

$120 Gigabyte P965 DS3 Rev 2. (E6400 @ 3.4ghz) - I believe this board only had 6 power phases
$90 Gigabyte P35 DS3L (Q6600 @ 3.4ghz) - 4 power phases!!
$130 Gigabyte P55 DS3R (i7 860 @ 3.9ghz) - I believe 8 power phases

Each of these boards ran distributed computing projects 24/7, unless I was gaming or doing office work, etc. None of them had military components and they never blew up.

While the components may be better, I tend to agree with Ruby that all these extra features are marketing fluff unless you are going to break world records for real with LN2! Current rumors point to Sandy Bridge not caring for lower temps though as it just hits a brick multiplier wall (i.e. disrespects watercooling ).
 

Vette73

Lifer
Jul 5, 2000
21,503
9
0
I rank Gigabyte above asus. Customer support was awful with asus and they made claims then lied about them on their boards. Let alone their quality has dropped as they make mroe than boards now so IMO they have lost focus.

Gigabyte seems to support their boards better/longer. My last 2 systems (1 intel and 1 amd) have gigabyte boards and work great.
 

aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
21,019
3,490
126
I had:

$120 Gigabyte P965 DS3 Rev 2. (E6400 @ 3.4ghz) - I believe this board only had 6 power phases
$90 Gigabyte P35 DS3L (Q6600 @ 3.4ghz) - 4 power phases!!
$130 Gigabyte P55 DS3R (i7 860 @ 3.9ghz) - I believe 8 power phases

Each of these boards ran distributed computing projects 24/7, unless I was gaming or doing office work, etc. None of them had military components and they never blew up.
.

and ive had just in the past platform:

ASUS P6T-DLX V1 : which i got 4.2ghz on a i7 920 c1/c0 and 4.2 on a 965
eVGA E758 : which regot 4.3ghz on the 965 and 4.4ghz on a 975
eVGA Classified E759 : which supported me though 4 gulftowns, where i even killed 2 of them. (currently the 990X is @ 4.43ghz)
ASUS Rampage 2 Gene : -> which netted a 4.4ghz clock on a 975
Giggy UD7 : which my friend gave me to play with, which netted the same as the ASUS R2E Gene.

Trust me i know quality, been swimming in it, and i wont join the shallow waters in the motherboard pool.
 
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Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
198
106
If I want stability, I'll go with an Intel motherboard
If I want to play with the settings, I'll go with ASUS
If I want economy, I'll get MSI or Gigabyte
If its a server, go with Supermicro

Its been my experience that there will be a certain level of defective parts, and its been that way for the past 10+ years. When I was in college - 1996:1999 - my computer hardware instructor told me about 15% of all of the parts he gets are defective. And he did networking and built computers for a living.

I can not say that one company is better then the other, because I have seen defective parts from all brands. But I can say that some companies have a more relaxed attitude on quality control.

Take ECS motherboards for example - in 2001, 2002 and 2003, when Frys in North Houston would have a sale in ECS motherboards, go back 1 - 2 weeks later and you would see pallets stacked 3 feet high of returned boards. I would see like 2 or 3 pallets with dozens,,,, if not hundreds of returned boards. I can not say that same thing about ASUS, MSI, Gigabyte or Intel.
 
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dpodblood

Diamond Member
May 20, 2010
4,020
1
81
I suggest stay away from Gigabyte...both the two board I had never held an overclock

I'm going back to Asus

I had the same experience. Had an E8400 on a gigabyte board running 3.8GHz, and it lost stability after about a year. Flash forward another year and the board died completely. I replaced it with an ASUS board and no issues yet. I am considering ASRock, ASUS, or MSI for my next build.
 

wanderer27

Platinum Member
Aug 6, 2005
2,173
15
81
A local shop near me sells both Asus and MSI boards, and they also put together systems for people. They say they have 1/3rd the amount of RMAs with MSI than they do with Asus. I am very happy with Gigabyte lately, though I have also owned some solid MSI boards. I shop by features and then go through all the Newegg reviews, discounting things that sound like novice set up problems, and even the DOAs since I can always return. Failure to post randomly or blue screen or driver/bios problems I give a very heavy weight to.

Yeah, I've used both ASUS and MSI.

The MSI's never gave me a bit of trouble - I'm on my fifth ASUS of this Model (sig):

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=186822
 
Dec 26, 2007
11,782
2
76
Personally I stick to Asus or Gigabyte, I will also get Zotac for mini-ITX. I will also get MSI. I avoid Foxconn, ASrock (although it appears they ave not a "value" brand now), and more of the "no name" stuff.
 

Numenorean

Diamond Member
Oct 26, 2008
4,442
1
0
It used to be that Abit was where it was at. Man they had the best boards. Don't know what happened with that company.

ASUS has been what I've used mostly since Abit went downhill. I have also used Gigabyte without problems and a few MSI boards but more of the server ones. I used to have an old dual-socket P3 MSI board I think...

I think these days ASUS/Gigabyte seem to be the best.
 

schmunk

Member
May 17, 2007
57
0
0
A good friend of mine is a retired engineer that has been doing contracts for US Mil and NASA. He said it's BS. I tend to believe his experience over marketeers and reviewers that have no experience in those fields.

Of course it does not mean a hill of beans to what the differences may be but to claim a product is built to military spec or has military grade components is ridiculous.

Not at all ridiculous. I work at a semiconductor manufacturing fab in the US. We make chips for Apple, Siemens, Dell, Gigabyte, foxconn, freescale, Intel, HP and many other companies and orginization. We have various certifications and regular audits to be able to supply the Automotive, Aerospace and Defense industries. We are ISO/TS 16949 certified, AS9100B (aerospace) ceretified and also QML(military/Dept. of Defense) certified, among many other certifications.

You might want to google International Orginization of Standards if you want more info on why customer suppliers have certifications and audits to insure that thier product conforms to a specific standard.
You dont want an IC in outer space that is vulnerable to radiation, you dont want a IC in an auto airbag that has lattency or a low yield rate, 5 year reliablity rate etc. I wont go into details on the military standards.

Consumer products have a targeted reliability rate, of course no one wants something to fail, but you probably dont want to pay for a $900 ipod. There are many levels of engineering that can go into an IC to make them more robust or last longer. A consumer device has a shorter planned lifespan also, because they become obsolete within 3 to 5 years, so why build them to last 20, but a company can as a feature decide to use higher grade components for the power regulating chips, ferite chokes, solid capacitors etc and only add $10 per MB. It doesnt mean the MB wont fail for another reason, but at least you have taken some of the common failure points out of the equation. If you are overclocking, you are subjecting your device to more stress than it is usually designed for, and you are more suceptible to instablity due to power levels etc, so why not beef up these components.
 
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coffeejunkee

Golden Member
Jul 31, 2010
1,153
0
0
I think what Rubycon meant was, sure MSI use good quality chokes and caps etc.

But calling them 'Military Grade' is marketing fluff. You yourself say you can't go into details about military standards. So how are we simple consumers supposed to find out if we really get military graded goods as opposed to plain old civilian stuff (even though it's good quality civilian stuff)?
 

schmunk

Member
May 17, 2007
57
0
0
I think what Rubycon meant was, sure MSI use good quality chokes and caps etc.

But calling them 'Military Grade' is marketing fluff. You yourself say you can't go into details about military standards. So how are we simple consumers supposed to find out if we really get military graded goods as opposed to plain old civilian stuff (even though it's good quality civilian stuff)?

Oh, didnt mean to sound like it was classified, just gets boringly technical. Things like less leakage, overvolt protection, guaranteed performance over a -55°C to +125°C temperature range, reverse polarity protection, lower dropout voltages, thermal enhancement etc.

You can google military grade and specs, its availible to the public, i just didnt go into it cause it is a huge subject area:

this link gives a good idea of ICs hardened for defense applications:
http://www.mwrf.com/Articles/Index.cfm?Ad=1&ArticleID=22765

I guess to summarize my point is that you cant just use commercial chips for defense applications, if you could, then yes it would just be marketing fluff.
 

coffeejunkee

Golden Member
Jul 31, 2010
1,153
0
0
Ah then I was looking into it a bit too much. In that case I think Rubycon should explain himself a bit more, because the concept of military grade doesn't seem like marketing to me. Only when it's used wrongly.

But while you're here, maybe you can shed some light. MSI Military Class has as main feature highly-conductive polymerized capacitators and super ferrite chokes for the cpu powercircuitry (and also solid caps for the rest of the mobo but that's not so special these days). Any chance you know if these are really substantially better?

As for who has the best quality, I think it would be easiest to judge by the return rates. But those are probably a well kept secret. This is a good attempt: http://www.behardware.com/articles/788-1/components-returns-rates.html
 

schmunk

Member
May 17, 2007
57
0
0
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolytic_capacitor

Aluminum electrolytic capacitor: compact but lossy, these are available in the range of <1 µF to 1 F with working voltages up to several hundred volts DC. The dielectric is a thin layer of aluminum oxide. They contain corrosive liquid and can burst if the device is connected backwards. The oxide insulating layer will tend to deteriorate in the absence of a sufficient rejuvenating voltage, and eventually the capacitor will lose its ability to withstand voltage if voltage is not applied. A capacitor to which this has happened can often be "reformed" by connecting it to a voltage source through a resistor and allowing the resulting current to slowly restore the oxide layer.[8] Bipolar electrolytics (also called Non-Polarised or NP capacitors) contain two capacitors connected in series opposition and are used when one electrode can be either positive or negative relative to the other at different instants. Bad frequency and temperature characteristics make them unsuited for high-frequency applications. Typical ESL values are a few nanohenries.[9]

Tantalum: compact, low-voltage devices up to several hundred µF, these have a lower energy density and are produced to tighter tolerances than aluminum electrolytics. Tantalum capacitors are also polarized because of their dissimilar electrodes. The cathode electrode is formed of sintered tantalum grains, with the dielectric electrochemically formed as a thin layer of oxide. The thin layer of oxide and high surface area of the porous sintered material gives this type a very high capacitance per unit volume. The cathode electrode is formed either of a liquid electrolyte connecting the outer can or of a chemically deposited semi-conductive layer of manganese dioxide, which is then connected to an external wire lead. A development of this type replaces the manganese dioxide with a conductive plastic polymer (polypyrrole) that reduces internal resistance and eliminates a self-ignition failure.[​

Aluminum, and to a lesser extent tantalum, electrolytics have worse noise, leakage, drift with temperature and ageing, dielectric absorption, and inductance than other types of capacitor. Additionally, low temperature is a problem for most aluminum capacitors: for most types, capacitance falls off rapidly below room temperature while dissipation factor can be ten times higher at &#8722;25 °C than at 25 °C. Most limitations can be traced to the electrolyte. At high temperature, the water can be lost to evaporation, and the capacitor (especially the small sizes) may leak outright. At low temperatures, the conductance of the salts declines, raising the ESR, and the increase in the electrolyte's surface tension can cause reduced contact with the dielectric. The conductance of electrolytes generally has a very high temperature coefficient, +2%/°C is typical, depending on size. The electrolyte, particularly if degraded, is implicated in various reliability issues as well.​

Polymer capacitors do not contain electrolyte. Wet Electrolytic capacitors contain a paper between the anode and cathode foil that is soaked with liquid electrolyte. Polymer capacitors use a paper which is impregnated with organic semiconductor crystal. It looks like carbon paper really although it is not.​
Polymer capacitors are characterised by lower ESR and ability to handle higher ripple current than their wet electrolytic counterparts. They are also characterised by not changing their ESR when their operating temperature changes and also having a much longer life. Sanyo quotes a 10 times increase in lifetime for a 20degC reduction in operating temperature for their OS-CON polymer capacitors whist a wet electrolytic capacitor in comparison would increase lifetime by 4 times.​

Chokes used in radio circuits are divided into two classes – those designed to be used with audio frequencies, and the others to be used with radio frequencies. Audio frequency coils, usually called A.F. chokes, can have ferromagnetic iron cores to increase their inductance. Chokes for higher frequencies often have iron powder or ferrite cores (see Ferrite bead). Chokes for even higher frequencies have non-magnetic cores and low inductance simulating the effects of an air-core.
[edit]Solid-state chokes

Solid-state chokes (SSC) can manage higher currents than traditional chokes. They can help reduce the high frequency buzzing noises that occur when running under high electrical currents.
 

Rubycon

Madame President
Aug 10, 2005
17,768
485
126
Tell you what go ahead and ask MSI or better yet buy their boards and let a certified lab tell you. It's marketing bliss. No different in the "audiophile" world using avante-garde terms and themes to make something sound special.

"Military Grade" is ambiguous and actually there is no such classification.

With electrical parts (sockets, for example) there is a term "hospital grade" and if it's marked as such you better believe it will meet the required specification.

If they want to publish "Mil spec" components then they better be ready to back that claim up. They don't because they cannot.

That is all I'm saying.

ALL high end boards will use components that meet similar specification/quality.
 

schmunk

Member
May 17, 2007
57
0
0
. . .

"Military Grade" is ambiguous and actually there is no such classification.

ALL high end boards will use components that meet similar specification/quality.

temperature standard MIL-PRF-39003L of the US Department of Defense

. . . and let a certified lab tell you.

I work at a semiconductor Fab, we are DOD certified.

they better be ready to back that claim up.
They did, here's their press release:
http://www.tcmagazine.com/tcm/news/...-advantages-its-military-class-graphics-cards


Rubycon,
Please let me say in advance, I'm having fun with this, please don't view my posts as confrontational, this is a good debate, and makes forums fun. (some times the back and forth is seen as aggressive, so please know that I'm in good mood and enjoy your comments.

From the link above MSI news release:


. . . Taiwan-based manufacturer MSI has decided on hyping up its current offer, more specifically, the models that feature the relatively fresh Military Class design. Basically, by using components like the Hi-c CAP, SSC (Solid State Choke) and Solid CAPs, MSI was able to make cards that comply with the temperature standard MIL-PRF-39003L of the US Department of Defense, and deliver improved stability over longer periods of time, even when overclocking comes into play.

So by their own press release they describe what they are referring to with their term, the actual military standard it meets, they point out which of their motherboards and GPUs offer this set of features, (Hi-c CAP Tantalum core capacitors, Pure iron solid state chokes, and solid core aluminum caps) and even that their company does not offer this for every product (see the link showing their product skus: the N260GTX Twin Frozer does not offer the better components). By your argument every company uses the same components, not true for MSI.

I would agree with you that any company can offer high grade components, they can offer whatever they like, all im saying is MSI is not flakey for using a term to distinguish their products, describing what that term means, and what features it includes, and then showing which products include those features.
 
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thescreensavers

Diamond Member
Aug 3, 2005
9,916
2
81
I used to buy MSI back in 05-07 I hace since learned of there horrible customer service, and cheap quality boards. Had NB fan go out on 2 boards, VRAM chips on 3 laptop mobos, CPU's running hot due to poorly designed laptop, Customer Service told me to put some scotch tape on a vent which may help air flow....and so much more. I called techsupport so much over RMA's and crap that they knew who I was.

.

Since then they might of changed but holy crap, I have so much wasted time using that company.

Yea So since then I been using Gigabyte for cheaper boards and Asus for the more expensive boards.

I have NEVER had one issue with these companies. I will not use any other brand.
 
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