who regrets buying a 4850?

[Munky]

Originally posted by: zod96
Well if that's true than why does it preform as good as the GT and not better, let alone a GTX

Because the 9800gtx is barely faster than a 8800gt, hence the 4850 seems the same to you. I bet if you ran those same benches with a 9800gtx you'd also find it's only 3-5 fps faster than a 8800gt. Anyway, if I was upgrading from my 8800gt I'd get no less than a 4870. With that card you'd feel the difference without running fraps.

 

[airhendrix13]

I recommend running the 3dmark and just monitoring the FPS between the 2. If you get close to equal results, bump up AA, then run it again. I'm willing to bet you'll see a increase in the overall performance of the 4850. You may also want to move your PC out of your greenhouse.

 

[bangmal]

Originally posted by: brxndxn
If your ambient temperature is 92 degrees, you shouldn't own a video card... until you have enough money to pay for AC.

http://failblog.org/2008/07/01/priorities-fail/

LOL :laugh:

 

[Tempered81]

why would anyone regret getting this card, especially at $149. If you would have bought two for $298, you could be smashing any other single card out there, and keep an Intel mobo.

I WISH i would have gotten in for two on that deal.

 

[Golgatha]

Originally posted by: lavaheadache
it is a cpu bottleneck because the card has left over power to do "free" AA. ie. Since the AA is having little performance impact there must be a cpu bottleneck

Actually, a CPU bottleneck is when your GPU could do more, but the CPU can't keep up or feed the GPU data quickly enough (e.g. running Crossfired 4850s on an underclocked 1.8Ghz Prescott P4 or something silly like that) . He's just not using the full capability of the GPU in his case, as his CPU is more than quick enough to deliver data to the GPU.

AA is nearly free on the 4850. I had 2x3870s and switched to 2x4850s and I now run 8x Adaptive AA with 16x AF at a native resolution of 1680x1050. I enable vSync and triple buffering also. Crossfired 3870s couldn't handle Adaptive AA with fluid framerates and the 4850s can. End of story. There is no game (except Crysis) I can't run at the aforementioned settings with Crossfired 4850s (aka these are my set it and forget it settings) at a solid 60FPS (with occasional dips of course).

Also, speaking of drivers. At least ATI's GPU monitor scaling works without any issues. The scaling issues I had with nVidia hardware was one of the main deciding factors for me to get rid of my 8800GT and go for the 3870. The awesome deal (at the time of purchase anyway) for the 3870s at Best Buy was the reason for going with 3870 Crossfire eventually. The only lingering driver issue I have with ATI is that Company of Heroes just plain crashes with Crossfire enabled. However, from what I've read Online, this is really a game software issue with multiple GPUs, which causes a lot of grief with SLI users as well.

I do agree with the OP that the temperature issue with the 4850s is completely unacceptable. My cards should not idle at the desktop at 80-82°C. I changed the fan parameters with the Radeon BIOS Editor program and reflashed to get the temps down to acceptable levels. One should not have to jump through such hoops.

 

[zod96]

Well then their's alot of people out their with user errors on their 4850 machine's Their is quite a few threads going on at different websites forums about how people are disappointed that their brand new 4850 is barely faster than their old 8800GT/GTS. And if you look at reviews on newegg from people who have bought the card, also said its not much faster then their GT/GTS. And this is with vista and 1680x1050 and up. Its not like I didn't want the card to work. I would rather have gone Ati just to stick it to nvidia. I like a single slot single power connector type card that why I wanted the 4850 based on the reviews it killed the GT/GTS and I guess for some people it does and for others like myself not so much...

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles

Originally posted by: Azn
More cpu bottlenecks than 8800gt? He's supposedly getting about same fps as 8800gt? CPU isn't going to do too much at all at that resolution with AA. Sure his performance would improve with higher clocked CPU but it will be minuscule one at best. Turn down a resolution or two and faster CPU would improve more.

I don't get how the OP bought a card that is about 10-20% faster than his 8800gt thought it was going to be a huge improvement? He should try turning on 8xMSAA to all his games that would yield better results.

That would be CPU bottlenecking...if a GPU can seemingly perform much harder tasks without consequence, it isn't being given enough work to do fast enough by the CPU...

How? I mention 8xAA because RV770 is much better with 8xAA than G92.

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: zod96
Well then their's alot of people out their with user errors on their 4850 machine's Their is quite a few threads going on at different websites forums about how people are disappointed that their brand new 4850 is barely faster than their old 8800GT/GTS. And if you look at reviews on newegg from people who have bought the card, also said its not much faster then their GT/GTS. And this is with vista and 1680x1050 and up. Its not like I didn't want the card to work. I would rather have gone Ati just to stick it to nvidia. I like a single slot single power connector type card that why I wanted the 4850 based on the reviews it killed the GT/GTS and I guess for some people it does and for others like myself not so much...

Why would anyone upgrade 8800gt/gts to 4850 is beyond me. Unless you want to do 8xAA it's not much of an upgrade.

 

[zod96]

That's my point exactly, that a 4850 is not much of an upgrade from a GT/GTS

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

If i didn't have a GT or a GTS, i'd DEFINITELY choose a 4850 over a 8800

infact anyone upgrading would be a fanboy not to

 

[zod96]

I'll give you that If I had anything less than a GT/GTS I would have gone with the 4850 too

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

Yeah, i mean who wouldn't?

 

[Me XMan]

Jumping to crossfiring two 4850's from CF 3870's and gained about 1000 marks on 3DMark06. Definitely faster and very happy.

 

[shangshang]

Want to mention a few things...

1. people keep harping on my room temp at 92F! Stop it! I have resided to NOT game when the temp gets that high. So the issues I have now is NOT when room temp is 92F+. Furthermore, even when my room temp is 92F, the 4850 under load was about 93C, which according to AMD, is WITHIN SPECS. So blame AMD for lying. But like I said, I don't game at 92F no more. And no, it's stupid to pay for AC just so you can game. Anybody in here lives in Southern CA and know how much AC can drive up your electric bill. What's the point of buying a "cheap" card and pay up in electricity?

2. I run XP, with a Quad Q9450. Nobody in here has accused me of using a limiting CPU, but just in case you're wondering, don't think it's the cpu limitation. I might have to bite the bullet and muck with Vista, but right now I can't. I have programs/softwares that will run on XP only, and I'm not sure if I want to setup a whole new partitition with Vista just so I can game. If it comes to "gotta have Vista to game with an AMD card'... then hell that's just too much work for me and I'll be looking to Ebay off the 4850 and go back to Nvidia.

3. Yes I was a dummie to have gone from a perfectly stable 8800GT to a marginally better 4850. But at least I only paid $150 and didn't have to deal with rebate. But lesson has been learned.

4. games stability is my biggest issues. Yesterday, was playing CoD4 and suddenly the PC just froze with my Visual Studio debugger popping up! LOL that was the first for me, a debugger popping up.

Right now, I'm thinking "Man wouldn't it be nice if Best Buy will have another killer deal on a 9800GTX+ when it's out... for $150!!"

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

Was your fan speed too low to cause the heat?

 

[woolfe9999]

Originally posted by: zod96
Your not alone. I too jumped on the bandwagon after reading the reviews from various websites inlcluding anandtech and after messing around with it and benching it against my 8800GT I found that it was barely faster than my GT by like 3-5 fps big deal. Then the heat, my GT idles at 42 without a fan! And loadsabout 54 using the S1 cooler. Then's their's IQ, the GT had much better IQ in the games that I played, BF2 COD4 Oblivion. That's why I never believe most website reviews. I buy the card from a place that offers 30 day money back policy so I can test the card myself and decide. In the end the 4850 was ok, but it was certainly not a 8800GT killer far from it. I have no idea how websites said the 4850 is faster than a 9800GTX, in my book no way, its more like neck and neck with the GT but with way more heat and more power consumed. I'm glad I kept my GT over the 4850 and have no regrets because its a better card

Based on you having an aftermarket cooler on the GT, I'm guessing that card is over-clocked, whereas your 4850 is not, right?

- woolfe

 

[ShadowOfMyself]

Originally posted by: woolfe9999

Originally posted by: zod96
Your not alone. I too jumped on the bandwagon after reading the reviews from various websites inlcluding anandtech and after messing around with it and benching it against my 8800GT I found that it was barely faster than my GT by like 3-5 fps big deal. Then the heat, my GT idles at 42 without a fan! And loadsabout 54 using the S1 cooler. Then's their's IQ, the GT had much better IQ in the games that I played, BF2 COD4 Oblivion. That's why I never believe most website reviews. I buy the card from a place that offers 30 day money back policy so I can test the card myself and decide. In the end the 4850 was ok, but it was certainly not a 8800GT killer far from it. I have no idea how websites said the 4850 is faster than a 9800GTX, in my book no way, its more like neck and neck with the GT but with way more heat and more power consumed. I'm glad I kept my GT over the 4850 and have no regrets because its a better card

Based on you having an aftermarket cooler on the GT, I'm guessing that card is over-clocked, whereas your 4850 is not, right?

- woolfe

ZING! People seem to do this alot "My new stock clocked card is barely faster than my previous highly overclocked card"

 

[zod96]

Its the SC version yes, but its not much faster than a regular GT. Doesn't matter anyway I bite the bullet and bought a HIS 4870 for $300. I'll try that one and if its good I'll be selling my GT with the S1 and stock cooler...

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: zod96
I'm not saying the 4850 is bad, far from it. But if you already have an 8800GT their's no point in upgrading to the 4850 because that's more of a side step than an upgrade. If you have something slower than a 8800GT, then by all means a 4850 would be perfect

I would recommend waiting for the version with an aftermarket HSF to arrive just like for the 8800GT. And for speedstep fixed bioses to become the norm...

I gave my brother my 8800GTS 512 and went and bought myself a 4850. I had to flash the bios to fix speedstep, then I went and reflashed it to force fan speed up because it was crashing (84c IDLE is too hot... not its 55c idle and 80c load).

I am getting screen flickers whenever i scroll a window in firefox (with 8.6 drivers), but the newer drivers cause city of heroes to crash with 1 minute of loading... So I have to keep them...

All those are expecting things for a new card, Its great bang for the buck and great bang overall, and my brother NEEDED a new card... Its just that you should be careful about jumping on the bandwagon as of yet. If you can, wait a month.
You will probably see and improved fan design, newly manufactured cards with come with speedstep working to begin with, and proper drivers will be available.

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
How is a E8400@ 3.6GHz causing a CPU bottleneck?!?

And enabling AA on a card that is already chugging in performance?? wouldnt that kill performance even more (and the cards are already at like 20fps)?

Ha... at 1650x1080? I have games where my E8400 @3.6ghz is maxed out at 1920x1200 @ max settings on a 4850... It is not a bottle neck because CPU goes between 80-100% and the GPU goes between 70-100%. So obviously improving either one will improve my overall FPS. But I am obviously not limited by GPU alone anymore. (for it to be a bottleneck, CPU would have to be 100% and GPU much NEVER hit 100%...)

So E8400 + 4850 @ 1920x1200, CPU + GPU both limit frames...
Really, if you think about it, how much have CPUs improved since the 3ghz AMD64 X2 from years ago? Very VERY little... it is just sad.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: HOOfan 1
If my ambient room temperature was 92F then I would be randomly crashing.

QFT- I keep my house 73F year round!

 

[Creig]

Shangshang, if you're that dissatisfied with your 4850, I would be happy to trade you my XFX 8800GT + cash for it. Problem solved.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: SilentRunning

Originally posted by: shangshang
...
Let's see. First there was the high temperature issue, with my 4850 hiting as high as 93-95C when my ambient room temp is 92F, causing random crashes in games. So had to pretty much stop gaming when room temp gets this high. But that was before the BIOS and fan mod, and after modding the BIOS/fan mod, temp. improved a bit and games stopped crashing. But the fact that I even have to do this for "fix" the issue is quite unacceptable.
...

Maybe if you had left the card alone it wouldn't be having issues.

Originally posted by: shangshang
...
I did change the thermal paste before even installing the card, so I don't know the temp with the old paste. But I did noticed the old thermal paste was a bit hard, so I just slap on a fresh patch.
...

I agree with all of this, I don't think users should base any 4850 impression off of Shangshang's experiences.

1. 92F is really hot for ambient temp, most people in most places that have gaming computers won't likely be in similar circumstance.

2. All the modding he did sort of makes any conclusions impossible.

4850s are hot cards to start with, but most people wouldn't have issues running them at stock speeds in a more temperate climate.

ATi wouldn't release them if they were too hot for normal (65-80F) rooms.

 

[sgrinavi]

I like the fact that I can crossfire it with two monitors and get the best of both worlds in regard to CAD apps and games. I have not had a problem with driver stability since I toned down the OC....

92 degrees? woah.

 

[nemesismk2]

I purchased a Gainward ATI Radeon HD 4850 because I wanted a nice upgrade from my HD 3870. I used to own Gainward back in my Nvidia days and their 4850 has been performing very well and has never crashed!

 

[woolfe9999]

Originally posted by: ShadowOfMyself

Originally posted by: woolfe9999

Originally posted by: zod96
Your not alone. I too jumped on the bandwagon after reading the reviews from various websites inlcluding anandtech and after messing around with it and benching it against my 8800GT I found that it was barely faster than my GT by like 3-5 fps big deal. Then the heat, my GT idles at 42 without a fan! And loadsabout 54 using the S1 cooler. Then's their's IQ, the GT had much better IQ in the games that I played, BF2 COD4 Oblivion. That's why I never believe most website reviews. I buy the card from a place that offers 30 day money back policy so I can test the card myself and decide. In the end the 4850 was ok, but it was certainly not a 8800GT killer far from it. I have no idea how websites said the 4850 is faster than a 9800GTX, in my book no way, its more like neck and neck with the GT but with way more heat and more power consumed. I'm glad I kept my GT over the 4850 and have no regrets because its a better card

Based on you having an aftermarket cooler on the GT, I'm guessing that card is over-clocked, whereas your 4850 is not, right?

- woolfe

ZING! People seem to do this alot "My new stock clocked card is barely faster than my previous highly overclocked card"

Indeed, it's the second time I've bothered to point this out in just a month on this board, and I've noticed this as a probable issue many other times without bothering to comment. When a new card comes out, it is never factory OCed, and sometimes it's still locked and not OCable at all. People will then compare the older OCed card to the new stock clocked card and be wondering why they aren't seeing the same performance delta as the review sites. Well that's because the review sites know what they're doing and know how to ensure an apples to apples comparison. Hence, unless otherwise stated, cards listed in their tables are always stock vs. stock.

That said, the CPU limitation discussed previously is likely the larger issue here. OCing the 4850 would probably buy a couple more FPS, but bumping the CPU to a quad@3.8 ghz would likely be a larger bump at that resolution.

All of these recent discussions on CPU limitations have convinced me that it isn't worth bothering upgrading my 8800 gts 320 until I first upgrade my e6750. Nehalim/Shanghai are looking more and more attractive all the time, especially for those of us at 1600x1050 or lower.

- woolfe