Who's preordering X-COM?

[dave_the_nerd]

97 kills vs 27 for my fire after move vs SS snipers.

Doinitwrong.

I've had three Colonel level SqSi Snipers with >100 kills now. Two in the same game.

 

[PowerYoga]

Doinitwrong.

I've had three Colonel level SqSi Snipers with >100 kills now. Two in the same game.

ditto. SS with either double tap or in the zone = 100s of kills easy.

doinitwrong.jpg

 

[thespyder]

ditto. SS with either double tap or in the zone = 100s of kills easy.

doinitwrong.jpg

Of course, you know that this means someone somewhere is postulating that SS is over-powered.

 

[ChronoReverse]

It IS overpowered. It's probably the single reason why even Ironman Impossible isn't.

For my part, my dual SS Snipers hit over 150 kills each in one of my longer campaigns. Only other soldier that was even close was my Heavy (and that's only because I used the explosives at any hint of trouble... part of the reason why the campaign ended up longer because I needed weapon fragments. On the other hand, this also meant there was 0% chance of my losing the campaign).

 

[Dijeangenie]

It IS overpowered. It's probably the single reason why even Ironman Impossible isn't.

For my part, my dual SS Snipers hit over 150 kills each in one of my longer campaigns. Only other soldier that was even close was my Heavy (and that's only because I used the explosives at any hint of trouble... part of the reason why the campaign ended up longer because I needed weapon fragments. On the other hand, this also meant there was 0% chance of my losing the campaign).

I don't really know if it's overpowered or intended to be powerful. The game is not competitive, and you can't just go in with 6 of them for obvious reasons - anymore than 3 is not really viable.

 

[thespyder]

I don't really know if it's overpowered or intended to be powerful. The game is not competitive, and you can't just go in with 6 of them for obvious reasons - anymore than 3 is not really viable.

Kind of this. I don't think it is overpowered. I think it fits a need and very much so. But it isn't like once you have this, the aliens don't stand a chance against you.

Having one or two snipers can make a really tough situation only mildly dangerous. But it never turns it into a cake walk. And having more than two, you begin to get into serious danger. if you don't have someone to keep the bad guys off of the snipers, they are TOAST.

My definition of Overpowered is Time Stop in NWN1 where, once you got that spell, nothing stood a chance against you. Or HIPs in NWN2. On pW's everyone that is anyone has it. And in order to survive against someone that had it, you have to have some way to combat it. So everyone HAS TO HAVE maxed out Spot as well. Squad Site is no where near as rampant or overpowered as these.

 

[ChronoReverse]

Certainly it's not game-breaking (which is what I consider NWN1's Time Stop to be) but since it's heads above any other skill in terms of ability (not versatility) it falls under overpowered for me.

It's not a bad thing necessarily, but it's very noticeably super effective =)

The biggest thing is that there's really no reason to ever run with a Snapshot Sniper since your Squad Sight Sniper is just as good (if not _better_) simply by being a Gunslinger as well.

 

[JamesV]

I still think you guys are full of it, when it comes to squad sight snipers.

I went back and started a new game with one, and line of sight issues mean that 9 out of 10 times when a squadmate spots an alien, my squad sight sniper does not get a shot - have to move him to a position that can 'see' the enemy (line of sight from A (sniper spot) to B alien spot, even if very far). Then the enemy moves on it's turn, and I have to move my squad sight sniper again (again not getting a shot).

I can see Archangel + Squad Sight perhaps working. Are there no line of sight issues in the air? Otherwise, I still don't get why or how you guys are getting the kills you say you are.

 

[Clinkster]

I still think you guys are full of it, when it comes to squad sight snipers.

I went back and started a new game with one, and line of sight issues mean that 9 out of 10 times when a squadmate spots an alien, my squad sight sniper does not get a shot - have to move him to a position that can 'see' the enemy (line of sight from A (sniper spot) to B alien spot, even if very far). Then the enemy moves on it's turn, and I have to move my squad sight sniper again (again not getting a shot).

I can see Archangel + Squad Sight perhaps working. Are there no line of sight issues in the air? Otherwise, I still don't get why or how you guys are getting the kills you say you are.

You don't just splay your guys everywhere, you move your squad within the sight of your sniper (of course, you have to have your sniper in a spot where he/she can see a good portion of the map).

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

I still think you guys are full of it, when it comes to squad sight snipers.

I went back and started a new game with one, and line of sight issues mean that 9 out of 10 times when a squadmate spots an alien, my squad sight sniper does not get a shot - have to move him to a position that can 'see' the enemy (line of sight from A (sniper spot) to B alien spot, even if very far). Then the enemy moves on it's turn, and I have to move my squad sight sniper again (again not getting a shot).

I can see Archangel + Squad Sight perhaps working. Are there no line of sight issues in the air? Otherwise, I still don't get why or how you guys are getting the kills you say you are.

You're picking terrible positions for your sniper if you're running into LoS issues that much.

 

[irishScott]

I still think you guys are full of it, when it comes to squad sight snipers.

I went back and started a new game with one, and line of sight issues mean that 9 out of 10 times when a squadmate spots an alien, my squad sight sniper does not get a shot - have to move him to a position that can 'see' the enemy (line of sight from A (sniper spot) to B alien spot, even if very far). Then the enemy moves on it's turn, and I have to move my squad sight sniper again (again not getting a shot).

I can see Archangel + Squad Sight perhaps working. Are there no line of sight issues in the air? Otherwise, I still don't get why or how you guys are getting the kills you say you are.

So your positioning sucks ass. Just because a squad member sees an alien doesn't mean the sniper can magically shoot around corners or obstacles. Keep your sniper centrally located on high ground.

Towards the end of my first game I had two snipers with squad-sight and double-tap. If I ran into anything, I fell back to them and they typically provided the big kills with the rest of the squad supporting.

 

[thespyder]

I still think you guys are full of it, when it comes to squad sight snipers.

I went back and started a new game with one, and line of sight issues mean that 9 out of 10 times when a squadmate spots an alien, my squad sight sniper does not get a shot - have to move him to a position that can 'see' the enemy (line of sight from A (sniper spot) to B alien spot, even if very far). Then the enemy moves on it's turn, and I have to move my squad sight sniper again (again not getting a shot).

I can see Archangel + Squad Sight perhaps working. Are there no line of sight issues in the air? Otherwise, I still don't get why or how you guys are getting the kills you say you are.

I gotta agree with the others. Either your positioning isn't perfect. Or you have really poor luck in the game. Squad sight is extremely effective for me.

I posted earlier a situation where I mind controlled a sectoid and sent him deep into the bowls of the ship. He spotted two floaters. My sniper was able to use a combination of squad sight and in the zone to take out both floaters even though they were in the next room of the ship and my sniper was in the far back of my squad formation.

In another scenario, I was moving through a large ship and encountered one of the Mechs. My sniper was up on the top of the ship and way across the board. My Assault came into site of the Mech and my sniper was able to critical it. My assault faded back and the Mech didn't get a shot off at me. Next round, my assault and another dude moved into range. My sniper damaged the mech further and then one of my other guys finished him off. The Mech didn't get a hit on any of my guys. And when my assault was not in sight range of the Mech, the sniper didn't have a shot.

There are loads of situations like that I could describe. But in the end, my sniper with squad sight has twice as many kills as any other soldier, which should say something all by itself.

 

[JamesV]

Towards the end of my first game I had two snipers with squad-sight and double-tap. If I ran into anything, I fell back to them and they typically provided the big kills with the rest of the squad supporting.

Ah, maybe that is it. I never retreat, but I could see falling back on two squad sight snipers and having them decimate all that follow you.

I tend to constantly advance, only retreating badly hurt characters from the 'front line'. So I spot an alien, they move, and I advance everyone toward the alien, which makes my squad sight sniper stink.

Perhaps a playstyle thing? Like to constantly advance the snap shot sniper is better, but like to lay traps or draw enemies in and the squad sight sniper is better? Probably better to use squad sight also because with all my advancing, I use alot of rockets (2x Heavy when you got 6 mutons + disc + whatever), which destroy the alien guns I believe. I'll give it another shot.

 

[_Rick_]

If you have two sets of mutons advancing on your position (before having snipers that reliably one-hit them) you have to retreat from time to time.

I do agree, that snipers are way unbalanced too.

My usual squad consists of two snipers, two supports, one assault and one heavy, and the heavy and assault either tank or go ghost, while the snipers just stay behing cover on some high ground and deal crit after crit.

This is why late-game was positively boring. Yeah, I still moved mostly carefully (except some thin man missions, where I just went berserk knowing that nothing could touch me), but as long as I did, the snipers dealt an average 30 or so damage per turn, while the supports could heal a total of 60 HP, IIRC.

Compare that to the early game, were thin men would single hit my rookies, because I had no armour, and I'd have to get two hits on them.....yeah.

It's a weird difficulty curve, that punishes the beginner, and in my eyes a bit of a design problem. Maybe a time limit on some of the story missions, or a higher panic penalty in the late game would turn that around.

Currently considering a replay, but knowing that only the first two dozen missions will be troublesome kind of turns me off.

 

[hg321]

If you have two sets of mutons advancing on your position (before having snipers that reliably one-hit them) you have to retreat from time to time.

I do agree, that snipers are way unbalanced too.

My usual squad consists of two snipers, two supports, one assault and one heavy, and the heavy and assault either tank or go ghost, while the snipers just stay behing cover on some high ground and deal crit after crit.

This is why late-game was positively boring. Yeah, I still moved mostly carefully (except some thin man missions, where I just went berserk knowing that nothing could touch me), but as long as I did, the snipers dealt an average 30 or so damage per turn, while the supports could heal a total of 60 HP, IIRC.

Compare that to the early game, were thin men would single hit my rookies, because I had no armour, and I'd have to get two hits on them.....yeah.

It's a weird difficulty curve, that punishes the beginner, and in my eyes a bit of a design problem. Maybe a time limit on some of the story missions, or a higher panic penalty in the late game would turn that around.

Currently considering a replay, but knowing that only the first two dozen missions will be troublesome kind of turns me off.

What difficulty level was this on?

 

[Dijeangenie]

If you have two sets of mutons advancing on your position (before having snipers that reliably one-hit them) you have to retreat from time to time.

I do agree, that snipers are way unbalanced too.

My usual squad consists of two snipers, two supports, one assault and one heavy, and the heavy and assault either tank or go ghost, while the snipers just stay behing cover on some high ground and deal crit after crit.

This is why late-game was positively boring. Yeah, I still moved mostly carefully (except some thin man missions, where I just went berserk knowing that nothing could touch me), but as long as I did, the snipers dealt an average 30 or so damage per turn, while the supports could heal a total of 60 HP, IIRC.

Compare that to the early game, were thin men would single hit my rookies, because I had no armour, and I'd have to get two hits on them.....yeah.

It's a weird difficulty curve, that punishes the beginner, and in my eyes a bit of a design problem. Maybe a time limit on some of the story missions, or a higher panic penalty in the late game would turn that around.

Currently considering a replay, but knowing that only the first two dozen missions will be troublesome kind of turns me off.

I agree with you on the difficulty curve not being ideal. It seems to me you have a very easy start to the game (which is fine), followed by a sudden spike in difficultly until you get psi abilities and plasma weapons when the game becomes very easy again.

 

[you2]

I wonder if this will be $25 come blackfriday....

 

[Howard]

Ah, maybe that is it. I never retreat

Play Impossible once and see what happens.

 

[Clinkster]

Ah, maybe that is it. I never retreat, but I could see falling back on two squad sight snipers and having them decimate all that follow you.

I tend to constantly advance, only retreating badly hurt characters from the 'front line'. So I spot an alien, they move, and I advance everyone toward the alien, which makes my squad sight sniper stink.

Perhaps a playstyle thing? Like to constantly advance the snap shot sniper is better, but like to lay traps or draw enemies in and the squad sight sniper is better? Probably better to use squad sight also because with all my advancing, I use alot of rockets (2x Heavy when you got 6 mutons + disc + whatever), which destroy the alien guns I believe. I'll give it another shot.

Yea you can't do that "always advance" tactic on classic and absolutely impossible on impossible. On easy/normal, you can feel like a tactic king doing so, and it'll end sooner.

 

[irishScott]

Yea you can't do that "always advance" tactic on classic and absolutely impossible on impossible. On easy/normal, you can feel like a tactic king doing so, and it'll end sooner.

This. Switch up to classic. It'll point out all of the mistakes the AI has been letting you get away with.

 

[darkewaffle]

Finished over the weekend, I might play through a higher difficulty at some point. Does higher difficulty simply improve enemy tactics or does it influence other things as well? Like smaller mission rewards, lower soldier aim, increased mission frequency, anything like that?

 

[kevinsbane]

Finished over the weekend, I might play through a higher difficulty at some point. Does higher difficulty simply improve enemy tactics or does it influence other things as well? Like smaller mission rewards, lower soldier aim, increased mission frequency, anything like that?

Classic improves alien AI, increases alien numbers, increases alien accuracy, increases alien crit, increases alien HP.
It also removes any hidden bonuses you may have had in normal.
It reduces funding, increases panic faster, requires you to build the officer training school and gives your base less power to start with.

Combine with Ironman for a tough, but rewarding game if you stick with it

 

[Daverino]

This. Switch up to classic. It'll point out all of the mistakes the AI has been letting you get away with.

Setting up ambushes is possible in Classic. Falling back into an overwatching sniper or two is a must some times. It's also important to notice when the aliens have the good cover and you do not. Sometimes it's better to pull back and find a better approach. This is really true on some abduction missions where you're stuck in a parking lot and the aliens are happily inside a building. You don't want to get into a sniping match when the aliens are in full cover and you're in half.

On a side note about 'falling back,' I had one of my most harrowing missions last night. It was an alien supply barge and I (unwisely) assaulted it from the sides. I managed to have nine elite mutons, four regular mutons, two berserkers and a cyberdisk active at the same time. I've never had to go full Sir Robin, but I just ran and ran and ran like hell. Lost a single Lt Assault and pretty much everyone else was wounded. Got back to the Skyranger and pulled the cord.

 

[nanobreath]

On a side note about 'falling back,' I had one of my most harrowing missions last night. It was an alien supply barge and I (unwisely) assaulted it from the sides. I managed to have nine elite mutons, four regular mutons, two berserkers and a cyberdisk active at the same time. I've never had to go full Sir Robin, but I just ran and ran and ran like hell. Lost a single Lt Assault and pretty much everyone else was wounded. Got back to the Skyranger and pulled the cord.

Bwhahaha. I love that comment.

Anybody else start a new game, and get into your base and realize all the steam is on the bottom level, or directly under your first satellite up-link, and say fuck it and restart? Why don't they at least allow you to pick the locations of your starting rooms in base. Random steam is fine, but at least let me choose not to put the sat up-link in the middle of all the steam, completely ruins all the adjacency bonuses.

 

[tydas]

I wonder if this will be $25 come blackfriday....

I would say yes, it seems console sales are disappointing...not sure about pc sales though..