Who's preordering X-COM?

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PowerYoga

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2001
4,603
0
0
The aliens seem much more active on terror missions, probably because of all the civilian targets. So sometimes they run out chasing civilian targets and "activate" themselves.
 

nanobreath

Senior member
May 14, 2008
978
0
0
Got another question. Is anyone else finding that in Terror missions that all of the aliens tend to congregate around your landing site? I did a mission last night that was supposed to be 'difficult'. Only all of the aliens were in the quarter quadrant that my soldiers landed in and came out of the woodwork almost all at once.

I remember that in the original (particular TFTD) that you had to scour the entire board sometimes to find all of the hiding aliens. Now they just seem to appear as soon as you land and come rushing at you.

Might have something to do with me only playing on Normal. Been thinking about kicking it up to Classic but not sure if that would help things out at all.

I'd say it's random. I had missions where 4 groups were revealed as I fanned out from the landing site. And others where I moved around for 5 turns before I ran into them all at the end. And again others where engaging one group at a time was easy. This is on classic.

Though I would say on terror missions they don't just hide in one spot of the map waiting for you to find them. They always seem to be active and trying to kill civilians. Generally I find that even if you spot them, they will kind of retreat from you because they are going after the nearest civilian. They prioritize killing the civilians to the point where I've been out of cover, and instead of killing me, they shoot the civ.
 

thespyder

Golden Member
Aug 31, 2006
1,979
0
0
Cool. glad to know I just got a bad draw on the last few. I (and maybe this is just me but...) really enjoyed the Bug Hunts from the first three. I enjoyed having to quarter and search by squads over the entire maps. Ok, maybe TFTD went a tiny bit too far in that regard, but it was still fun. And there was that heightened sense of awareness when a popper or a Sectoid with mind control could be hiding behind any door or around any corner. That was fun to me.
 

Daverino

Platinum Member
Mar 15, 2007
2,004
1
0
So far I find the biggest change in 'feel' is related to sight distance and night vision. In the original X-COMs the aliens could see in the dark and could see a few squares more than your soldiers. Often that meant night attacks were suicidal and you would dance your interceptors around to keep a terror site active until daybreak. Now, whether it's night or day everyone can see the same distance. Gone is the 'shot from nowhere' that kills one of your troops.

Balancing that, however, is the loss of 'squad sight' for all your troops. In the original X-COM, if an alien was spotted anyone could shoot at it with line of sight. And also aliens would remain spotted through the end of the turn. That meant you could have one guy go in, spot the aliens, and run away. Then you could fire with complete impunity with your second line. This was the only way to win in the beginning without armor. You'd use your tanks to spot and your soldiers to get kills. Personally, I thought it was kind of cheap, but totally necessary.
 

thespyder

Golden Member
Aug 31, 2006
1,979
0
0
So far I find the biggest change in 'feel' is related to sight distance and night vision. In the original X-COMs the aliens could see in the dark and could see a few squares more than your soldiers. Often that meant night attacks were suicidal and you would dance your interceptors around to keep a terror site active until daybreak. Now, whether it's night or day everyone can see the same distance. Gone is the 'shot from nowhere' that kills one of your troops.

Balancing that, however, is the loss of 'squad sight' for all your troops. In the original X-COM, if an alien was spotted anyone could shoot at it with line of sight. And also aliens would remain spotted through the end of the turn. That meant you could have one guy go in, spot the aliens, and run away. Then you could fire with complete impunity with your second line. This was the only way to win in the beginning without armor. You'd use your tanks to spot and your soldiers to get kills. Personally, I thought it was kind of cheap, but totally necessary.

Oh, there are lots of changes from the original. I agree that the darkness/night vision is one. But actually I don't remember that being huge. You either lit flairs or had night vision goggles. Or you set off an incendiary round.

But yeah. I find the switch from time units 'Two moves' per turn to be very different. Basically, if you move one step or your full (half) move, it takes the same amount of time. And big weapons or small, it makes no difference. You only get one shot unless you have a feat that makes it two.

I find the size of the maps (much smaller) different. In the original, you had to hunt across sometimes really big boards. And up 4-5 levels just to find the buggers. That is a significant difference.

Squad size is different as well. Bigger maps made it necessary to have larger groups. But that was fine because you could form squads that were balanced and covered each other's backs.

the fact that you only have one base is also different. I remember having to plan each base such that, if there was a base invasion you had (a) troops in it that were more experienced than rookies and (b) that there was enough weapons to fight off an attack. Plus it helped getting to wherever the invasion site was in a more reasonable manner than the sky ranger flying all the way around the world to get to a terror site.

Don't get me wrong. I think it is a GREAT game. I am loving it. But I definitely see a lot of differences from the original. And sometimes differences are good. Just saying there is a lot more than just the sight thing that causes it to feel different.

I do like the engine a lot though. And think that it could be retasked to fit a bunch of other games. At the very least I hope it inspires people to make more turn based tactical combat type games. Because I love them.
 
Mar 23, 2004
112
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I do like the engine a lot though. And think that it could be retasked to fit a bunch of other games. At the very least I hope it inspires people to make more turn based tactical combat type games. Because I love them.

Off topic:

If they hadn't just made Syndicate into another crappy FPS remake I'd say that would be at the top of the list. Same with another turn based fallout (although that one made a pretty ok shooter)
 

Daverino

Platinum Member
Mar 15, 2007
2,004
1
0
I do like the engine a lot though. And think that it could be retasked to fit a bunch of other games. At the very least I hope it inspires people to make more turn based tactical combat type games. Because I love them.

I agree that there are a ton of changes. But in terms of a change in the 'feel' of the game, the vision thing is tops. This game still has the feeling of dread and terror that it could all go wrong in a split second. But it happens for different reasons. In the original, that mostly came (for me) from the vision imbalance. There was nothing quite as frightening as knowing a blaster round could appear out of no where and vaporize your crew.

That was scary.
 

thespyder

Golden Member
Aug 31, 2006
1,979
0
0
Off topic:

If they hadn't just made Syndicate into another crappy FPS remake I'd say that would be at the top of the list. Same with another turn based fallout (although that one made a pretty ok shooter)

I was playing ToEE just prior to Xcom coming out and I think that would be an excellent use for another Turn based game (More DnD modules, not a remake of ToEE). I enjoy 'Real time' but don't think it is necessary in all things. And in a D&D game, I think that it really brings out the richness of the strategic elements of the game to do it real Turn baased (not Faux Turn based/real time).

@Daverino. In your opinion. Mine is that the vision thing is actually not the top of the pick for what makes it different. But that is simply my opinion.
 

thespyder

Golden Member
Aug 31, 2006
1,979
0
0
It has been a while since I played. But I want to say that you got something on that order at some point. I remember playing some night missions and thinking that I wish more of my soldiers had night vision. But that it did exist. I'd have to go back and play, but I am pretty sure it was in at least one of the games.

If I am wrong, then I am wrong. But I don't think so.
 

kevinsbane

Senior member
Jun 16, 2010
694
0
71
It has been a while since I played. But I want to say that you got something on that order at some point. I remember playing some night missions and thinking that I wish more of my soldiers had night vision. But that it did exist. I'd have to go back and play, but I am pretty sure it was in at least one of the games.

If I am wrong, then I am wrong. But I don't think so.
No night vision goggles, but you can see via street lamps, fires, flares, and other misc light sources. Fighting UFOs in farmland was a pain at night
 

thespyder

Golden Member
Aug 31, 2006
1,979
0
0
No night vision goggles, but you can see via street lamps, fires, flares, and other misc light sources. Fighting UFOs in farmland was a pain at night

Ok, I might have been confused on that point. And yes, there is a fundamental difference in those games vs the current one. Just saying there are others as well. For instance, vision was a cone in the original games. And it took time units to turn around. In the new one, you have 360 vision. Just as for example.

But it is all good. This is a different game than the originals. And there are loads of things that make it so. Still an excellent game overall (IMNSHO).
 

ChronoReverse

Platinum Member
Mar 4, 2004
2,562
31
91
I find the size of the maps (much smaller) different. In the original, you had to hunt across sometimes really big boards. And up 4-5 levels just to find the buggers. That is a significant difference.

Squad size is different as well. Bigger maps made it necessary to have larger groups. But that was fine because you could form squads that were balanced and covered each other's backs.

X-COM's maps were definitely larger than XCOM's but they weren't actually that huge either. The slog was controlling 14 soldiers and 3 tanks (plus you spent a quarter of missions carefully getting off the Skyranger).

Perhaps you played TFTD and you're remember that instead? They made that game absolutely enormous in scale and it was quite a bit worse for it.
 

thespyder

Golden Member
Aug 31, 2006
1,979
0
0
X-COM's maps were definitely larger than XCOM's but they weren't actually that huge either. The slog was controlling 14 soldiers and 3 tanks.

Perhaps you played TFTD and you're remember that instead? They made that game absolutely enormous in scale and it was quite a bit worse for it.

I played all three, though admittedly quite a while ago. I played Apocalypse most recently and definitely remember pretty large maps. Maybe only one City block, but even that was 5-10X as large as the maps in Xcom:EU. And usually involved 5 levels where the current engine has a problem with 2-3.

And yeah, TFTD was known for mid size to large maps with loads and loads of little obstructions where aliens could hide behind. You had to spend a really long time searching out the one remaining alien hiding among the rocks.
 

ChronoReverse

Platinum Member
Mar 4, 2004
2,562
31
91
I played all three, though admittedly quite a while ago. I played Apocalypse most recently and definitely remember pretty large maps. Maybe only one City block, but even that was 5-10X as large as the maps in Xcom:EU. And usually involved 5 levels where the current engine has a problem with 2-3.

And yeah, TFTD was known for mid size to large maps with loads and loads of little obstructions where aliens could hide behind. You had to spend a really long time searching out the one remaining alien hiding among the rocks.

Yeah, Apocalypse would have the multiple levels because it was based in the supermetropolis with large destructible buildings.

X-Com UFO Defense was smaller in scope compared to the subsequent two. You'd have hills and scattered two-story buildings but that was about it. Even the Battleships in UFO1 weren't really that large (and always had the same layout).

It's quite poignant in my mind because I replayed UFO1 before XCOM came out to psyche myself up lol.
 

zanemoseley

Senior member
Feb 27, 2011
530
23
81
Gotta say I'm LOVING this game. I'm playing on normal and I find it quite hard enough if you're trying to keep all your people alive. My OCD kicks in though in missions and I end up bailing if someone dies since I want to keep everyone, that's really the only downside for me. I had the multi-level building glitch once where my guy moved completely where I didn't want and ended up dropping in front of a big nasty to end his turn.

I think the only turn based strategy I've played before this was Vandal Hearts on Playstation back about 10 years ago and remember loving that game as well.
 

Martimus

Diamond Member
Apr 24, 2007
4,490
157
106
I finished my first game on normal ironman. I lost 13 soldiers through the game, so it was about the perfect amount of toughness without getting overly frustrating. Although trying to level up two rookie support soldiers to Sgt at the end to get to the final mission with two medics (the 3 medkit perk) was quite frustrating. They kept getting injured in the late missions because the aliens were a lot tougher and because I was trying to make them get as many of the kills as possible to level up. The end was good though and I lost 4 of my 6 men finishing off the last room.
 

_Rick_

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2012
3,951
70
91
Classic Ironman is quite....challenging.
And yes, that's the difficulty I started out at.
Always better to start out the hard way, than to spoil the story and then never get around to that second play-through.
I should probably focus more on the willpower of the selected squad, as every so often the first death leads to one or two guys panicking.
I wish I could evac with slightly less consequences..but most of the time that's just no option. Either because I can't nearly afford the rise in panic, or because I've been flanked so hard, that I can't get back to the extraction zone.

My biggest nemesis is probably thin men, right now. While surely the big bad guys later on are also scary (3 mutons spawning at once is bad news), but the thin man's mobility and poison attack are weeding me out quite badly in the early game.
Especially their tendency to spawn in my flanks, having enough HP to tank most single attacks and poison death cloud means that if I spawn three and don't get lucky taking one out before he gets into position, I'm in big trouble. If I spawn six, it's pretty much over.

The problem with the cover system is that if you enemies coming at you from two directions, one of your men will always be exposed, but they can always be in hard cover. As you're outnumbered, you can't usually flank the enemy without getting into extremely high risk situations (of either getting to close to the mark, or getting detected by more enemies).

At least by now I got more aware of burning vehicles. Also, I once got so close as being able to use the stun-gun on an alien, got a 90% chance - blew it and lost a cpl.
Since then I tend to use maximum force to resolve conflicts, never mind losing two or three corpses and weapon fragments to explosives.

I guess the key tactic I have to adapt is to retreat at the right moment into a better position, and hope the aliens will give chase....
 

nanobreath

Senior member
May 14, 2008
978
0
0
The end was good though and I lost 4 of my 6 men finishing off the last room.

The last room was way too easy for me on my classic playthrough. Opened the door, and had my two snipers setup to double tap already. Made short work of it, and made the ending feel a lot less dramatic than it should have been.

Just now getting into a classic ironman playthrough. So many rookies die; if only the fuckers could shoot worth shit. And then when they do hit...only do 2 damage instead of 3.
 

ChronoReverse

Platinum Member
Mar 4, 2004
2,562
31
91
The last room was way too easy for me on my classic playthrough. Opened the door, and had my two snipers setup to double tap already. Made short work of it, and made the ending feel a lot less dramatic than it should have been.

They could totally fix that last room if they simply made the boss spawn after all your guys are inside (and then lock the door).


Just now getting into a classic ironman playthrough. So many rookies die; if only the fuckers could shoot worth shit. And then when they do hit...only do 2 damage instead of 3.

Wait until you get good enough for Impossible. Sectoids have 1 more HP which doesn't sound like much until you realize that regular assault rifles and grenades can only do 3 damage.

For now, you need you learn to draw the aliens into your fire and use explosives more liberally.
 

kevinsbane

Senior member
Jun 16, 2010
694
0
71
They could totally fix that last room if they simply made the boss spawn after all your guys are inside (and then lock the door).
If you're careful, you can insert your team into the final room without setting the boss off. When I did it in Normal Ironman, I maneuvered to the perfect position, then killed off every single ethereal and mutons without them ever getting a turn.
 
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