WHS question

[coolVariable]

Originally posted by: heymrdj
Where does the system backup make a system image and bootable disc that you can restore an as is system from? Where is the containment of this individual file / disc image combination into one manageble package?

Ever used Vista backup. Voila!
System image backup that can be restored from the recovery console/installation disk.

Originally posted by: heymrdj
Where is the compression that can make this package half the size of the original?

Really? You spend $500+ on a WHS so you can save $20 on HDD space?
I can tell - you are a fantastic engineer!

Originally posted by: heymrdj
Where's the management of multiple computers?

Not much management either if the clients have run it manually.
And yeah, I can check timestamps of client backups, even if Mr. engineer can't.

Originally posted by: heymrdj
You're loosing one piece still. With the NAS way you still can't have an effective backup if you're interrupting it.

Bravo! I was looking for a better alternative! And I am fine if it only works every 10th time it starts a backup while the client is idle (with the other 9 times being interrupted because the client gets used again). Something that is seamless for the client, doesn't require a schedule, goes unnoticed by the client and just works!

Originally posted by: heymrdj
PS: It's not trolling, it's not even a push for WHS, I couldn't care less if you use it. But you're spewing non truths about a software that works damned well for what it designs for, a piece of software even some corporate apps have trouble contending with.

Yes. It is trolling. I have a specific goal: seamless backups, without a schedule, unnoticeable for the clients. You are spouting bullsh!t how great WHS is when all I am doing is pointing out some pretty big deficiencies. No wonder WHS is not catching on in the business world!

Originally posted by: Rebatem...
Makes full image backups
Keeps dozens of versions of the backups for each PC
Eliminates manual management of the backups
Works with ALL versions of XP and Vista (only Vista Ultimate, Enterprise, and Business will do image backups natively)
Costs less than $10 apiece to back up ten PCs

1. Vista backup
2. Vista backup
3. Vista backup (but then you have to use a schedule which we already established to not be desirable)
4. Keep your XP if you want, Vista backup is great
5. Free so far but doesn't do what I want it to do (see above)

 

[bsobel]

No wonder WHS is not catching on in the business world!

I can't even explain how much that quote made me laugh and really explains OP's position.

 

[Dari]

I don't think the fact that "pausing" a backup would create inconsistencies has sunk into the OP's head yet.

The OP is like Prince's mother.

 

[coolVariable]

Originally posted by: bsobel

No wonder WHS is not catching on in the business world!

I can't even explain how much that quote made me laugh and really explains OP's position.

Yes. Because I have a job and you don't?

Originally posted by: Dari
I don't think the fact that "pausing" a backup would create inconsistencies has sunk into the OP's head yet.

The OP is like Prince's mother.

At least I can read which you apparently can't.
And manners prevent me from saying what of Prince you remind me of ...


I asked a pretty simple question about a feature that
- if it was offered would probably be used by everyone, and
- should be included in WHS.
But thank you sooooooo much for all your "help".
Something happened to turn people in the OS section of AT into ... ?

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: coolVariable

Originally posted by: bsobel

No wonder WHS is not catching on in the business world!

I can't even explain how much that quote made me laugh and really explains OP's position.

Yes. Because I have a job and you don't?

Originally posted by: Dari
I don't think the fact that "pausing" a backup would create inconsistencies has sunk into the OP's head yet.

The OP is like Prince's mother.

At least I can read which you apparently can't.
And manners prevent me from saying what of Prince you remind me of ...


I asked a pretty simple question about a feature that
- if it was offered would probably be used by everyone, and
- should be included in WHS.
But thank you sooooooo much for all your "help".
Something happened to turn people in the OS section of AT into ... ?

Well, why don't you tell us which of the competing products have a "pause" button in their backup solution?

Seriously, you're a D-bag. Continue your ad hoc backup solution via Windows backup or get a NAS, none of us will shed a tear.

 

[bsobel]

Originally posted by: coolVariable

Originally posted by: bsobel

No wonder WHS is not catching on in the business world!

I can't even explain how much that quote made me laugh and really explains OP's position.

Yes. Because I have a job and you don't?

Very strange comeback. I'm a chief architect for one of the largest software companies in the world. I was commenting on the absurdity of complaining about Windows *HOME* Server not being a business product. Where, if you had *any* clue you'd be looking at SBS or the new EBS.

So, rocket ranger, what exactly is it YOU do for a living?

 

[dclive]

(googling ebs....)

 

[bsobel]

Originally posted by: dclive
(googling ebs....)

Essential Business Server, recently went RTM...

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: coolVariable

Originally posted by: RebateMonger

Originally posted by: coolVariable
I want to put the WHS in a place where I am at unpredictable times and I cannot set the backup on a schedule.

Because of my work, I can be working virtually any time of the day. I've set my WHS backups to run at the time I'm least likely to be doing "heavy-duty" work, from 4:00 am to 7:00 am. I have five PCs being backed up, but not all of them are "on" each day.

Once the original backup is completed (the first or second day after WHS is installed), a "typical" backup of my 200 GB hard drive takes 17 minutes. Last night's backup took twelve minutes.

If you are super-busy and the slowdown of your PC is distracting you, you can click "Cancel the Backup" and re-start it at any time. It only takes three seconds and two mouse-clicks.

It's hardly a "major" design flaw. For a "major" flaw, take a look at Mozy's online backups, where you can only schedule the START time, and there's no way to set a STOP time. That's a real pain, because if you run other software (like NTBackup) that creates Volume Shadow Copies, the two can conflict and can make a major mess. I much prefer being able to set hard Start and Stop times, so I know exactly what my backups are doing.

I am sorry, I still consider this a major design flaw, since WHS (at least IMO) is supposed to work with laptops.
I DON'T want my laptop to wake and do a backup at a predetermined time! I want it to recognize when it is on the same LAN as the WHS and only then it should start a backup when the pc is idle for a configurable time (e.g. 5 minutes) ... if I come before it is done, then it should stop.
THAT would be a smart and logical setup for laptops!
Tss, tss, tss. I guess no WHS for me.

You're more than welcome to go out and write your own plug in for it.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: coolVariable

Originally posted by: heymrdj


Then you in your douchbagery of transparentness would remove the laptop while backing up yes? Please in your mightiness show me one piece of backup software that can hard break a system image backup automatically for the person and that backup still work 100%. My laptop sees my WHS server maybe 2 times a week, 3 times if it's lucky. The WHS server is scheduled to do them at night which is when the laptop would be sitting idle. But I have had to be on the go so instead I do this neat manual backup. I go down to the taskbar see, and right click the WHS symbol. When the laptop is on the lan this symbol is green. I can click backup now, and boom, while i'm eating or doing some other mundane task, I have a complete backup getting done. Now I have canceled them before mid go before, which of course makes an incomplete backup which WHS destroys the next go around, as those serve me know purpose in the event of a drive failure. But I can normally afford for the laptop so sit on the LAN as I'm using it for the 15 min to 1 hour it takes for a full backup update to take place. I once moved about 90GB of data though so that obviously too much longer, about 5 hours over night. But that was wireless, if I had plugged it into the network would have went much sooner.

Again, no problem.

Please stop trolling!

As I said before:
Then what is the point of WHS? If I have to do it manually, I might as well use the image backup from Vista and a NAS!
But you don't seem to get that so please leave this thread alone!

WTF is so hard for you to start a backup when you go to bed? Is it really that much effort that when you're done with the laptop you click on the icon and tell it to back up and walk away?

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: bsobel

Originally posted by: coolVariable

Originally posted by: bsobel

No wonder WHS is not catching on in the business world!

I can't even explain how much that quote made me laugh and really explains OP's position.

Yes. Because I have a job and you don't?

Very strange comeback. I'm a chief architect for one of the largest software companies in the world. I was commenting on the absurdity of complaining about Windows *HOME* Server not being a business product. Where, if you had *any* clue you'd be looking at SBS or the new EBS.

So, rocket ranger, what exactly is it YOU do for a living?

I believe he manages an Internet Cafe' and rides a Vespa. I could be wrong though.

 

[heymrdj]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: coolVariable

Originally posted by: heymrdj


Then you in your douchbagery of transparentness would remove the laptop while backing up yes? Please in your mightiness show me one piece of backup software that can hard break a system image backup automatically for the person and that backup still work 100%. My laptop sees my WHS server maybe 2 times a week, 3 times if it's lucky. The WHS server is scheduled to do them at night which is when the laptop would be sitting idle. But I have had to be on the go so instead I do this neat manual backup. I go down to the taskbar see, and right click the WHS symbol. When the laptop is on the lan this symbol is green. I can click backup now, and boom, while i'm eating or doing some other mundane task, I have a complete backup getting done. Now I have canceled them before mid go before, which of course makes an incomplete backup which WHS destroys the next go around, as those serve me know purpose in the event of a drive failure. But I can normally afford for the laptop so sit on the LAN as I'm using it for the 15 min to 1 hour it takes for a full backup update to take place. I once moved about 90GB of data though so that obviously too much longer, about 5 hours over night. But that was wireless, if I had plugged it into the network would have went much sooner.

Again, no problem.

Please stop trolling!

As I said before:
Then what is the point of WHS? If I have to do it manually, I might as well use the image backup from Vista and a NAS!
But you don't seem to get that so please leave this thread alone!

WTF is so hard for you to start a backup when you go to bed? Is it really that much effort that when you're done with the laptop you click on the icon and tell it to back up and walk away?

I see him as the humans on WALLE

 

[bsobel]

WTF is so hard for you to start a backup when you go to bed? Is it really that much effort that when you're done with the laptop you click on the icon and tell it to back up and walk away?

If backups were easy to remember, then people would do them. There is nothing wrong with the desire for them to be automatic. That said:

a) The OP has a bad attitude, and is insulting to anyone that doesnt agree with him
b) Letting the machine wakeup to backup works quite well
c) If the window is missed, the machine WILL eventually pop up and remind you to do a backup (if my laptop isnt home for awhile, when I connect a backup will occur OR i'll get a prompt asking if its ok). Very close to what the OP wants, but the backup has to finish, it can't be stopped 1/2 through
d) The image snapshot based methods need to complete the backup run, the idea that you can stop one in the middle and finish it later risks data loss
e) See 'a'

Bill

 

[coolVariable]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: bsobel

Originally posted by: coolVariable

Originally posted by: bsobel

No wonder WHS is not catching on in the business world!

I can't even explain how much that quote made me laugh and really explains OP's position.

Yes. Because I have a job and you don't?

Very strange comeback. I'm a chief architect for one of the largest software companies in the world. I was commenting on the absurdity of complaining about Windows *HOME* Server not being a business product. Where, if you had *any* clue you'd be looking at SBS or the new EBS.

So, rocket ranger, what exactly is it YOU do for a living?

I believe he manages an Internet Cafe' and rides a Vespa. I could be wrong though.

Yes. I do. Here's my Vespa: Link (wrong color/year but close enough)
I am glad that you have such a fantastic job as chief architect for "one of the largest software companies in the world".
Does that mean you build their kitchens?

Relying on humans to do a backup is a bad idea.
Automatic backup is a good idea.
Scheduled backup is a bad idea for laptops that are very mobile.
Even if only every 10th backup process works on idle it is better than no backup at all.
Running a backup when idle and on the same LAN as the backup destination (even if it doesn't work every time <= repeating this point for the dumb@sses that apparently can't read) is a good idea.
Solution that offers the above ... priceless.

(OP is amazed at the amount of hatred in this thread when the functionality of WHS is questioned. Zealous fanboys? Probably. Any brains? Probably not.)

 

[heymrdj]

Originally posted by: coolVariable

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: bsobel

Originally posted by: coolVariable

Originally posted by: bsobel

No wonder WHS is not catching on in the business world!

I can't even explain how much that quote made me laugh and really explains OP's position.

Yes. Because I have a job and you don't?

Very strange comeback. I'm a chief architect for one of the largest software companies in the world. I was commenting on the absurdity of complaining about Windows *HOME* Server not being a business product. Where, if you had *any* clue you'd be looking at SBS or the new EBS.

So, rocket ranger, what exactly is it YOU do for a living?

I believe he manages an Internet Cafe' and rides a Vespa. I could be wrong though.

Yes. I do. Here's my Vespa: Link (wrong color/year but close enough)
I am glad that you have such a fantastic job as chief architect for "one of the largest software companies in the world".
Does that mean you build their kitchens?

Relying on humans to do a backup is a bad idea.
Automatic backup is a good idea.
Scheduled backup is a bad idea for laptops that are very mobile.
Even if only every 10th backup process works on idle it is better than no backup at all.
Running a backup when idle and on the same LAN as the backup destination (even if it doesn't work every time <= repeating this point for the dumb@sses that apparently can't read) is a good idea.
Solution that offers the above ... priceless.

(OP is amazed at the amount of hatred in this thread when the functionality of WHS is questioned. Zealous fanboys? Probably. Any brains? Probably not.)

Ok dumb ass how is a partial backup any good. If a imaged drive is only partially backed up, it WILL NOT RESTORE FROM IT. You must have an absolutely 100% COMPLETE backup to restore a failed system. If you had any brains you'd know that trusting computers 100% to a duty is failed to destruction. All backups must be periodically quality checked for completeness and verified for their data. I'm sorry but if you want backup solutions that work you have to actually put some work into it you lazy ass. That's what we keep TRYING to tell you, but you can't get that through your head. This stupidity of "every 10th backup process works that's good enough" proves you don't know squat about it. If the files change the image must be REMADE. You can't restore a system with files from yesteryear and files today. It's not a puzzle you can break apart and uses pieces from it and another puzzle set to complete. Files must match down to their second of creation, checksums must be verified. It's not a simple "whenever i feel like it I'll let it get another file backed up to the archive." No matter how stupidly busy you feel you are, I think you can manage to backup a few laptops in an overnight period if they just so happen to be connected to the LAN. If you wakeup and gotta run and they're not done, just hit the stop button. But realise, JUST LIKE ANY OTHER SOLUTION ON THE PLACE OF THE PLANET, that backup will be null, because by the time you get back to run the backup again, the hard drives image will have changed.

In our datacenters, for mission critical app and web servers, we have maintenance failover servers. This is because servers MUST be maintained sometimes, and there is no way to perform this without interrupting service. So the customers pay for failover that is used to run their apps while the main servers are being worked on.

You may need to engineer this. If honestly cannot bring yourself to put any thought into backing up your system, you may need to come up with a failover system involving more than one system so that you can have one backing up while you use the other.

 

[EagleKeeper]

I have an option here.
Lock the thread or let it go on.

Much depends on if the childish behavior is eliminated.

In other words. STOP the name calling, etc.

The WHS as is, seems unable to meet with the OP perceived needs. People are not entirely helping with way of solving his problems within his guidelines.


Senior Anandtech Moderator
Common Courtesy

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
I have an option here.
Lock the thread or let it go on.

Much depends on if the childish behavior is eliminated.

In other words. STOP the name calling, etc.

The WHS as is, seems unable to meet with the OP perceived needs. People are not entirely helping with way of solving his problems within his guidelines.


Senior Anandtech Moderator
Common Courtesy

Id say lock it because the OP doesn't really understand what he's doing.
He's been given options, but non of them work for him. It can't be that he's right and everyone else posting is wrong.
He's been given the information he needs. He can't accept the truth of the matter and continues to deny EVERYONES' suggestions.
Simply put you can start a back up and let it run until it finishes based on a scheduled time or a manual start, but if you inturrupt it the back up is useless.
He wants something that will back up when the machine is idle for 5 minutes, but will stop backing up when he starts using the computer again. This will cause the backup to fail and be useless, thus his ultimate request for a backup solution will not work. He must be willing to understand that a back up takes time and if the data is that important that he needs to back it up he needs to make the time to do it. The world doesn't revolve around him, me or you. There are some situations that just won't appease some people and they have to learn to adapt or learn how to make the situation adapt to them. Like I posted earlier, the solution doesn't exist for his needs, and if it is that important to him, he needs to learn how code and write a program or pay someone to do it for him.

 

[coolVariable]

Originally posted by: heymrdj

Originally posted by: coolVariable

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: bsobel

Originally posted by: coolVariable

Originally posted by: bsobel

No wonder WHS is not catching on in the business world!

I can't even explain how much that quote made me laugh and really explains OP's position.

Yes. Because I have a job and you don't?

Very strange comeback. I'm a chief architect for one of the largest software companies in the world. I was commenting on the absurdity of complaining about Windows *HOME* Server not being a business product. Where, if you had *any* clue you'd be looking at SBS or the new EBS.

So, rocket ranger, what exactly is it YOU do for a living?

I believe he manages an Internet Cafe' and rides a Vespa. I could be wrong though.

Yes. I do. Here's my Vespa: Link (wrong color/year but close enough)
I am glad that you have such a fantastic job as chief architect for "one of the largest software companies in the world".
Does that mean you build their kitchens?

Relying on humans to do a backup is a bad idea.
Automatic backup is a good idea.
Scheduled backup is a bad idea for laptops that are very mobile.
Even if only every 10th backup process works on idle it is better than no backup at all.
Running a backup when idle and on the same LAN as the backup destination (even if it doesn't work every time <= repeating this point for the dumb@sses that apparently can't read) is a good idea.
Solution that offers the above ... priceless.

(OP is amazed at the amount of hatred in this thread when the functionality of WHS is questioned. Zealous fanboys? Probably. Any brains? Probably not.)

Ok dumb ass how is a partial backup any good. If a imaged drive is only partially backed up, it WILL NOT RESTORE FROM IT. You must have an absolutely 100% COMPLETE backup to restore a failed system. If you had any brains you'd know that trusting computers 100% to a duty is failed to destruction. All backups must be periodically quality checked for completeness and verified for their data. I'm sorry but if you want backup solutions that work you have to actually put some work into it you lazy ass. That's what we keep TRYING to tell you, but you can't get that through your head. This stupidity of "every 10th backup process works that's good enough" proves you don't know squat about it. If the files change the image must be REMADE. You can't restore a system with files from yesteryear and files today. It's not a puzzle you can break apart and uses pieces from it and another puzzle set to complete. Files must match down to their second of creation, checksums must be verified. It's not a simple "whenever i feel like it I'll let it get another file backed up to the archive." No matter how stupidly busy you feel you are, I think you can manage to backup a few laptops in an overnight period if they just so happen to be connected to the LAN. If you wakeup and gotta run and they're not done, just hit the stop button. But realise, JUST LIKE ANY OTHER SOLUTION ON THE PLACE OF THE PLANET, that backup will be null, because by the time you get back to run the backup again, the hard drives image will have changed.

In our datacenters, for mission critical app and web servers, we have maintenance failover servers. This is because servers MUST be maintained sometimes, and there is no way to perform this without interrupting service. So the customers pay for failover that is used to run their apps while the main servers are being worked on.

You may need to engineer this. If honestly cannot bring yourself to put any thought into backing up your system, you may need to come up with a failover system involving more than one system so that you can have one backing up while you use the other.

Here's a suggestion. READ what I actually write:
I am fine that 9 out of 10 times the backup during idle gets interrupted and thus is invalid/gets deleted by the server. But if it actually succeeds every 10th time and does a complete backup that would be a very good and transparent solution.

Please leave this thread if you can't understand that.

 

[coolVariable]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
I have an option here.
Lock the thread or let it go on.

Much depends on if the childish behavior is eliminated.

In other words. STOP the name calling, etc.

The WHS as is, seems unable to meet with the OP perceived needs. People are not entirely helping with way of solving his problems within his guidelines.


Senior Anandtech Moderator
Common Courtesy

Id say lock it because the OP doesn't really understand what he's doing.
He's been given options, but non of them work for him. It can't be that he's right and everyone else posting is wrong.
He's been given the information he needs. He can't accept the truth of the matter and continues to deny EVERYONES' suggestions.
Simply put you can start a back up and let it run until it finishes based on a scheduled time or a manual start, but if you inturrupt it the back up is useless.
He wants something that will back up when the machine is idle for 5 minutes, but will stop backing up when he starts using the computer again. This will cause the backup to fail and be useless, thus his ultimate request for a backup solution will not work. He must be willing to understand that a back up takes time and if the data is that important that he needs to back it up he needs to make the time to do it. The world doesn't revolve around him, me or you. There are some situations that just won't appease some people and they have to learn to adapt or learn how to make the situation adapt to them. Like I posted earlier, the solution doesn't exist for his needs, and if it is that important to him, he needs to learn how code and write a program or pay someone to do it for him.

Please read or stop posting in here.

 

[bsobel]

Please read or stop posting in here.

Time to just lock this.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: bsobel

Please read or stop posting in here.

Time to just lock this.

I like this recommendation.

Products designed for Home use do not always work well under a business environment requirement



Senior Anandtech Moderator
Common Courtesy