Why are hallucinogens illegal?

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: Throckmorton
LSD has permanent effects on your brain.

So? Everything you do has some kind of affect on yourself.

Personally, I wouldn't have a problem with the legalization of LSD,Mushrooms and the rest but they absolutely need to be much more heavily controlled than pot or booze. Imagine if someone spiked your morning coffee with some shrooms...

With LSD and it would be no joke. At the time of its discovery, LSD was the most potent drug ever found. A single dose is just 100 micrograms and can last up to 12 hours.
It's completely non-toxic, and the threat of any permanent effects is not really true (for most persons), but it would definitely be a cruel thing to slip to somebody without their knowledge. Particularly as a 'bad trip' can be a truly traumatic experience.
As LSD is derived from a fungus which grows on rye called ergot, there are schools of thought that some medieval panics, like the Salem Witch Trials, were the result of collective 'bad trips,' for lack of a better way to put it.
So even legalized, LSD would still need to be pretty strictly regulated.

It is not regulation, so much, that is needed, but knowledge of what can happen and why. We do not know what we feel, but if you know beforehand that you feel like the worst person in the world, and that suddenly being forced to experience those feelings while fighting to avoid them with all your might is what causes a visible psychotic episode, then you don't have, with your whole being, to think you've gone insane. And you will be just fine if you go with the flow. It's when feeling is blocked and damed that madness enters in.

The real advantage offered by drugs, I think, aside from allowing the ready to explore their feelings, is the fact that drugs open the mind to altered states. Most people have never experienced consciousness altering states, except maybe in dreams or fevers or perhaps drunk or in a mob and they call those things being out of their mind. But they aren't out of their mind at all. You're just out of your habituated state. When you do experience altered states of consciousness though then you actually KNOW they exist and all the fools in the world who laugh at you or tell you you're nuts can't touch you at all.

 

[Vic]

The altered state caused by LSD is just a forced malfunction of certain parts of your brain, particularly the part that naturally filters and narrows your temporal awareness window with regards to your senses. In other words, your perception of what is "now" is expanded. That's why most of the visual hallucinations caused by LSD are what are known as "tracers," roughly similar to leaving a camera shutter open too long. But this effect can extend to other senses, like hearing (an echo/reverb effect), and even to your own thoughts (which uncontrolled can cause them to become confused, leading to the bad trip, etc).

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Farang
Moonbeam we never learn anything from you because you're cursed with the two worst traits a person can have--stupidity and narcissism.

Ouch! That's not very nice. I HAVE to be like that.

You were destroyed as a child by being called stupid, selfish, and vane and as a good religious person you do unto others as was done unto you.

My job is to show you what life and joy there is in going where you won't so that maybe one day you can. I'm more stupid and narcissistic than you can possibly imagine. I might even know something about altered states. Oh what foods these morsels be.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Vic
The altered state caused by LSD is just a forced malfunction of certain parts of your brain, particularly the part that naturally filters and narrows your temporal awareness window with regards to your senses. In other words, your perception of what is "now" is expanded. That's why most of the visual hallucinations caused by LSD are what are known as "tracers," roughly similar to leaving a camera shutter open too long. But this effect can extend to other senses, like hearing (an echo/reverb effect), and even to your own thoughts (which uncontrolled can cause them to become confused, leading to the bad trip, etc).

Dear God, what you call a forced malfunction I would call burglary, the entering of a state not proper to your station, the utilization of an energy source not organically acquired via self worth to break into places, the entry into which, you can't yet sustain.

ansapalnianly flowing echo has been known since ancient times. It is one of many gifts people used to acquire. And the tracers are like dancing with seven other selves.

And it isn't thought that is the bad trip, but the feelings the thoughts are there to hide.

And imagine what it's like to be there when love breaks the bounds of time and exists in all times in every place and forever.

The drunk awakens with a hangover complaining of the denaturants in his beer while another flies away in a purple haze on angel wings. Just chemicals, hehe.

 

[ProfJohn]

I think we have enough people in this country thinking they talk to Jesus, we don't need anymore.

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I think we have enough people in this country thinking they talk to Jesus, we don't need anymore.

Well, thank god we have people like you that make sure everyone is as forced to be as miserable as you...

In 2006, the U.S. government funded a randomized and double-blinded study by Johns Hopkins University which studied the spiritual effects of psilocybin mushrooms. The study involved 36 college-educated adults who had never tried psilocybin nor had a history of drug use, and had religious or spiritual interests; the average age of the participants was 46 years. The participants were closely observed for eight-hour intervals in a laboratory while under the influence of psilocybin mushrooms.

One-third of the participants reported that the experience was the single most spiritually significant of their lives and more than two-thirds reported it was among the top five most spiritually significant experiences. Two months after the study, 79 percent of the participants reported increased well-being or satisfaction; friends, relatives, and associates confirmed this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P...in_mushrooms#Emotional

 

[kush23]

hallucinogens are fine the way they are... the people who want them are able to get them. they just need to make the punishment less harsh.

 

[SleepWalkerX]

Originally posted by: Rufus12
I know the prohibition of other drugs like marijuana has a story behind, but I never really heard a good reason for them to be illegal. LSD has been shown to cure alcoholism, and as long as people are responsible and do it in their own home why should it be illegal? I'm predicting that most of the responses are gonna be against, but I'd really like to know why you guys think so?

It might have something to do with the 60's and the fact that everyone seemed to be independent of the establishment when taking strong mind altering substances. It was like the individuals were creating a different kind of society where love and freedom were prevalent instead of the traditional war, theft, and violence they were previously accustomed to in everyday life.

 

[Mardeth]

Why should they be legal?

 

[conehead433]

Originally posted by: Mardeth
Why should they be legal?

Because they are harmless. They all have less toxicity than aspirin.

 

[Farang]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Farang
Moonbeam we never learn anything from you because you're cursed with the two worst traits a person can have--stupidity and narcissism.

Ouch! That's not very nice. I HAVE to be like that.

You were destroyed as a child by being called stupid, selfish, and vane and as a good religious person you do unto others as was done unto you.

My job is to show you what life and joy there is in going where you won't so that maybe one day you can. I'm more stupid and narcissistic than you can possibly imagine. I might even know something about altered states. Oh what foods these morsels be.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WVE106JQoU

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Mardeth
Why should they be legal?

"To understand political power aright, and derive from it its original, we must consider what estate all men are naturally in, and that is, a state of perfect freedom to order their actions, and dispose of their possessions and persons as they think fit, within the bounds of the law of Nature, without asking leave or depending upon the will of any other man."

"If man in the state of nature be so free, as has been said; if he be absolute lord of his own person and possessions, equal to the greatest, and subject to no body, why will he part with his freedom?"

Both from John Locke, Second Treatise of Government

My point here is that you're looking at the issue backwards. The question is never, why should something be legal, but why should something be illegal? Which was what the OP asked.

For what reasons should we sacrifice our natural rights of freedom to the artificial construct that is government?

Looking at the other way around, as you did here (possibly in jest though), is to assume that the natural state of humanity is in slavery and bondage. Or to just be a reactionary who assumes that the existing status quo is the natural state

 

[mxyzptlk]

The government doesn't want you to have fun without consuming something that the wealthy elite can control and thereby profit from.

 

[SleepWalkerX]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Mardeth
Why should they be legal?

"To understand political power aright, and derive from it its original, we must consider what estate all men are naturally in, and that is, a state of perfect freedom to order their actions, and dispose of their possessions and persons as they think fit, within the bounds of the law of Nature, without asking leave or depending upon the will of any other man."

"If man in the state of nature be so free, as has been said; if he be absolute lord of his own person and possessions, equal to the greatest, and subject to no body, why will he part with his freedom?"

Both from John Locke, Second Treatise of Government

My point here is that you're looking at the issue backwards. The question is never, why should something be legal, but why should something be illegal? Which was what the OP asked.

For what reasons should we sacrifice our natural rights of freedom to the artificial construct that is government?

Looking at the other way around, as you did here (possibly in jest though), is to assume that the natural state of humanity is in slavery and bondage. Or to just be a reactionary who assumes that the existing status quo is the natural state

This is the best way to put it. We should always assume a life of freedom and only make laws to protect that freedom. Not the other way around.

 

[Moonbeam]

The only real way to get to heaven is to go to church and pay a tenth of your income to support it and go out and convert other money producing machines.

Anything else is the work of the devil. God wants you to feel good but the way you do that is by giving, but not to just anybody, but to the preacher. He is an inept parasite who would have to work for a living if you had a brain so he taps into your veins and feeds you poison. He will tell you who to imprison and who destroy.

 

[imported_Lothar]

Why not?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The only real way to get to heaven is to go to church and pay a tenth of your income to support it and go out and convert other money producing machines.

Anything else is the work of the devil. God wants you to feel good but the way you do that is by giving, but not to just anybody, but to the preacher. He is an inept parasite who would have to work for a living if you had a brain so he taps into your veins and feeds you poison. He will tell you who to imprison and who destroy.

The Protestant ethic is best summed up IMO in a quote from the aptly-named President John Calvin Coolidge, "The man who builds a factory builds a temple, that the man who works there worships there."

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The only real way to get to heaven is to go to church and pay a tenth of your income to support it and go out and convert other money producing machines.

Anything else is the work of the devil. God wants you to feel good but the way you do that is by giving, but not to just anybody, but to the preacher. He is an inept parasite who would have to work for a living if you had a brain so he taps into your veins and feeds you poison. He will tell you who to imprison and who destroy.

The Protestant ethic is best summed up IMO in a quote from the aptly-named President John Calvin Coolidge, "The man who builds a factory builds a temple, that the man who works there worships there."

What a poor sad fvck he must have been. I bet he was a member of the factory building class.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: Throckmorton
LSD has permanent effects on your brain.

So? Everything you do has some kind of affect on yourself.

Personally, I wouldn't have a problem with the legalization of LSD,Mushrooms and the rest but they absolutely need to be much more heavily controlled than pot or booze. Imagine if someone spiked your morning coffee with some shrooms...

With LSD and it would be no joke. At the time of its discovery, LSD was the most potent drug ever found. A single dose is just 100 micrograms and can last up to 12 hours.
It's completely non-toxic, and the threat of any permanent effects is not really true (for most persons), but it would definitely be a cruel thing to slip to somebody without their knowledge. Particularly as a 'bad trip' can be a truly traumatic experience.
As LSD is derived from a fungus which grows on rye called ergot, there are schools of thought that some medieval panics, like the Salem Witch Trials, were the result of collective 'bad trips,' for lack of a better way to put it.
So even legalized, LSD would still need to be pretty strictly regulated.

Agreed.

I'll just say I've had a few interesting experiences and you'd have a hard time picking me out of a crowd. I drive a car, I have my typical 8-5 job and I go out to the bar for a few on the weekend. I also play computer games too :thumbsup:

EDIT : They're also Salvia Divinorium(sp)? that's kind of a hallucinogen but it's legal in some states. There are few states trying to make it illegal because some people think it's a good idea to do in public or while driving.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: Farang
Moonbeam we never learn anything from you because you're cursed with the two worst traits a person can have--stupidity and narcissism.

Oh, man, read his post again. It's pretty damn brilliant.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: Throckmorton
LSD has permanent effects on your brain.

So? Everything you do has some kind of affect on yourself.

Personally, I wouldn't have a problem with the legalization of LSD,Mushrooms and the rest but they absolutely need to be much more heavily controlled than pot or booze. Imagine if someone spiked your morning coffee with some shrooms...

With LSD and it would be no joke. At the time of its discovery, LSD was the most potent drug ever found. A single dose is just 100 micrograms and can last up to 12 hours.
It's completely non-toxic, and the threat of any permanent effects is not really true (for most persons), but it would definitely be a cruel thing to slip to somebody without their knowledge. Particularly as a 'bad trip' can be a truly traumatic experience.
As LSD is derived from a fungus which grows on rye called ergot, there are schools of thought that some medieval panics, like the Salem Witch Trials, were the result of collective 'bad trips,' for lack of a better way to put it.
So even legalized, LSD would still need to be pretty strictly regulated.

It is not regulation, so much, that is needed, but knowledge of what can happen and why. We do not know what we feel, but if you know beforehand that you feel like the worst person in the world, and that suddenly being forced to experience those feelings while fighting to avoid them with all your might is what causes a visible psychotic episode, then you don't have, with your whole being, to think you've gone insane. And you will be just fine if you go with the flow. It's when feeling is blocked and damed that madness enters in.

The real advantage offered by drugs, I think, aside from allowing the ready to explore their feelings, is the fact that drugs open the mind to altered states. Most people have never experienced consciousness altering states, except maybe in dreams or fevers or perhaps drunk or in a mob and they call those things being out of their mind. But they aren't out of their mind at all. You're just out of your habituated state. When you do experience altered states of consciousness though then you actually KNOW they exist and all the fools in the world who laugh at you or tell you you're nuts can't touch you at all.

That is one of the beauties of drugs, the way they leverage you out of "your habituated state," making you realize that you had one to begin with.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: Throckmorton
LSD has permanent effects on your brain.

I think this is largely if not entirely BS.

tracers? flashbacks?

it does leave deposits in your spinal cord, as well.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I think we have enough people in this country thinking they talk to Jesus, we don't need anymore.

True enough, but I don't recall meeting any acid heads who claimed to converse with Jesus.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: kush23
hallucinogens are fine the way they are... the people who want them are able to get them. they just need to make the punishment less harsh.

Bingo. During the mid-1960's they weren't illegal at all. The writing was on the wall, though, it was only a matter of time. But now, if there are controls, they should be minimal IMO. You should not be sent to prison.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: Throckmorton
LSD has permanent effects on your brain.

So? Everything you do has some kind of affect on yourself.

Personally, I wouldn't have a problem with the legalization of LSD,Mushrooms and the rest but they absolutely need to be much more heavily controlled than pot or booze. Imagine if someone spiked your morning coffee with some shrooms...

With LSD and it would be no joke. At the time of its discovery, LSD was the most potent drug ever found. A single dose is just 100 micrograms and can last up to 12 hours.
It's completely non-toxic, and the threat of any permanent effects is not really true (for most persons), but it would definitely be a cruel thing to slip to somebody without their knowledge. Particularly as a 'bad trip' can be a truly traumatic experience.
As LSD is derived from a fungus which grows on rye called ergot, there are schools of thought that some medieval panics, like the Salem Witch Trials, were the result of collective 'bad trips,' for lack of a better way to put it.
So even legalized, LSD would still need to be pretty strictly regulated.

Unfortunately, there is strong evidence that the Salem Witch trials weren't a result of Ergot poisoning, as it has been surmised that the climate conditions during that time wouldn't have allowed for the fungal growth.

shame, too. I always loved that theory