Why are hallucinogens illegal?

[Madwand1]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Bamb, there you are, in touch with who you really are, a God surrounded by heaven.

God and real spirituality cannot be found through drugs. Drugs merely exchange one illusion for another, and the pursuit of such experiences for their own sake is profoundly dangerous to the spirituality of the individual. God, if anything, is Truth, and the pursuit of truth must be done with a healthy respect for the truth, not the desire for this or that illusion, however enchanting.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The only real way to get to heaven is to go to church and pay a tenth of your income to support it and go out and convert other money producing machines.

Anything else is the work of the devil. God wants you to feel good but the way you do that is by giving, but not to just anybody, but to the preacher. He is an inept parasite who would have to work for a living if you had a brain so he taps into your veins and feeds you poison. He will tell you who to imprison and who destroy.

Funny, I saw that guy on TV this morning!

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: Madwand1

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Bamb, there you are, in touch with who you really are, a God surrounded by heaven.

God and real spirituality cannot be found through drugs. Drugs merely exchange one illusion for another, and the pursuit of such experiences for their own sake is profoundly dangerous to the spirituality of the individual. God, if anything, is Truth, and the pursuit of truth must be done with a healthy respect for the truth, not the desire for this or that illusion, however enchanting.

Sounds like an ideological position here, but not based on experience. Drugs have been used for millenia by scores of cultures all over the world by people seeking religious or transcendental experiences. They didn't just seek them vainly. If these pursuits were in vain, they would have been long abandoned, not ritualized. Do your homework!

 

[Madwand1]

Originally posted by: Muse
If these pursuits were in vain, they would have been long abandoned, not ritualized. Do your homework!

Crack, heroin, and alcohol are also ritualized and not abandoned. That doesn't make them holy. Do your own homework, and thinking, and you'll find plenty of warning about the pursuit of illusions.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: Madwand1

Originally posted by: Muse
If these pursuits were in vain, they would have been long abandoned, not ritualized. Do your homework!

Crack, heroin, and alcohol are also ritualized and not abandoned. That doesn't make them holy. Do your own homework, and thinking, and you'll find plenty of warning about the pursuit of illusions.

I wasn't thinking of those, but of the many many hallucinogens, and that's what this thread is about.

Topic: Why are hallucinogens illegal?

Arguably the states that are transcended with the use of hallucinogens are what are illusory, not the states achieved with their help, at least that is the objective.

 

[robphelan]

Originally posted by: soundforbjt

Originally posted by: Throckmorton
LSD has permanent effects on your brain.

So does alcohol. The brain cells killed when you drink, never grow back.

no, it's been proven that alcohol only puts some brain cells to 'sleep' for awhile - they don't 'die'.

although I drink alcohol (more than I should), I think other drugs are a lot less dangerous.

 

[kush23]

lsd unlocks alot of mental things.. i've seen it happen first hand. one of my friends did lsd for a while and after this one trip he got schizophrenic

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Madwand1

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Bamb, there you are, in touch with who you really are, a God surrounded by heaven.

God and real spirituality cannot be found through drugs. Drugs merely exchange one illusion for another, and the pursuit of such experiences for their own sake is profoundly dangerous to the spirituality of the individual. God, if anything, is Truth, and the pursuit of truth must be done with a healthy respect for the truth, not the desire for this or that illusion, however enchanting.

Let me say this differently:

God and real spirituality cannot be found through religion. Religions merely exchange one illusion for another, and the pursuit of such experiences for their own sake is profoundly dangerous to the spirituality of the individual. God, if anything, is Truth, and the pursuit of truth must be done with a healthy respect for the truth, not the desire for this or that illusion, however enchanting.

In short, because the ego seeks spirituality, whatever means the ego assumes to work won't. The ego can make drugs, religion, government, or anything else very very dangerous. A serious person can progress through any religion or lack of one and those seeking illusions will find them anywhere. It is typical, once one sets ones sights on some particular path, not to want impacts from other ideas mess up the work being done. This bickering about who has the only truth is, in my opinion, the source of much misery in the world.

Once upon a time religion was the only way most people would ever come into contact with. Today we know about a million religions. They were all at one time the only way for those who practiced them, but everything has changed and now we're in danger of killing each other over who has the only truth of the many only truths there are.

 

[SleepWalkerX]

Originally posted by: kush23
hallucinogens are fine the way they are... the people who want them are able to get them. they just need to make the punishment less harsh.

Punishment? For what? For buying something? For selling a good? Punishment should be reserved for harming other individuals, not for buying things that change your mindset and may harm others.

The people who want them have to go through any individual who can supply the said substance. The problem with this is that normally we can assume a legal framework from witch we can apply our basic economic trades between the buyer and the seller. The problem is that the seller must operate on his or her own legal framework because if any conflict arises then they cannot bring the issue to the established legal framework.

So this is why most drug dealers carry guns. Most don't want to, but there's no institution where both parties can take quarrels and get their problems resolved peacefully. Their business has been excluded from the protection services of the State so if a conflict arises then they must handle it themselves.

If you don't want to see violence involving drugs and drug trading then simply allow disputes to be processed through a protection and insurance agency. This is why I think law should be decentralized and even competitive. Institutions that provide such protection are offering their services, like any other business. And most people in society want peace and wish to avoid conflict so this is how most businesses would operate. Obviously our current protection agency, the State, has been very slack and inefficient.

 

[kush23]

lol, acid and shroom dealers dont carry guns.

 

[SleepWalkerX]

Originally posted by: kush23
lol, acid and shroom dealers dont carry guns.

Some do, some don't. It really depends on the environment you're living in and what kind of person you buy from. I guarantee you that most dealers that carry a variety of drugs while trafficking high volumes will carry some form of protection.

Those that don't deal in high volumes don't have a need for a gun because conflicts rarely arise and normally they just deal to close friends.

I'll agree that those that can produce books of LSD would only have to sell to one or two people so there really isn't a need for a gun. Shrooms? It depends on what kind of volume you're talking about.

 

[kush23]

do people really sell that large of amounts of shrooms to need to carry guns? can one grower actually yield that much?

i know drug dealers usually carry guns when theyre deals go for over around 3000

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: kush23
can one grower actually yield that much?

Of course, mushrooms hardly need much space and practiclly grow themselves, hallucinogenic ones or otherwise.

 

[digiram]

LSD F's you up big time. I can understand why that's illegal and shrooms as well.

 

[DarrelSPowers]

I love that people can (semi)anonymously discuss this subject via this forum. There's no way I'd ever find myself in a discussion about the legality of hallucinogens with anyone other than my close hs/college buddies. I think that drug policy really needs to be reformed to control the crack/smack/anything junkies. Moderation is key, and I don't think the government should be dictating what you can or can't do on a sunday afternoon when you're a hard working American 5 days a week. Who knows, maybe this will happen years down the road?

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: kush23
lsd unlocks alot of mental things.. i've seen it happen first hand. one of my friends did lsd for a while and after this one trip he got schizophrenic

It's not a good idea to "do LSD for a while." It's not to be trifled with. Drugs of that nature should be accorded the highest respect. The idea of using them habitually is worse than absurd, it's pretty damn dangerous. People should know that before taking them.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: kush23
lol, acid and shroom dealers dont carry guns.

Yeah, that seems pretty evident. Heroine and crack and meth dealers, that's different. Well, I don't know about people who deal in large quantities of hallucinogens, but those are rare birds.

 

[AnitaPeterson]

Originally posted by: Vic
Contrary to the Protestant ethic.

A rather interesting idea!

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: kush23
lsd unlocks alot of mental things.. i've seen it happen first hand. one of my friends did lsd for a while and after this one trip he got schizophrenic

It's not a good idea to "do LSD for a while." It's not to be trifled with. Drugs of that nature should be accorded the highest respect. The idea of using them habitually is worse than absurd, it's pretty damn dangerous. People should know that before taking them.

I wholeheartedly agree... unrestrained freedom should not be equated with total lack of moderation

 

[CrazyLazy]

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: kush23
lsd unlocks alot of mental things.. i've seen it happen first hand. one of my friends did lsd for a while and after this one trip he got schizophrenic

It's not a good idea to "do LSD for a while." It's not to be trifled with. Drugs of that nature should be accorded the highest respect. The idea of using them habitually is worse than absurd, it's pretty damn dangerous. People should know that before taking them.

That's the thing, if doing something even moderately habitually will screw you up big time the government should control in some way. Also, what would the world look like if lsd was legalized and everyone was going around trippin balls?

 

[Modelworks]

LSD is one of the safer drugs in respect to the ability to die from it, its pretty hard to overdose from. Most of the deaths are from what people did to themselves while on the drug. It also doesn't work anything like other drugs like cocaine and isn't known to be habit forming. I myself would not recommend it to anyone, but I do not feel it is right to make it illegal.

My position is that the government should not regulate what someone does in their own home provided they are 18 years of age and are not infringing on anyone else rights. If someone wants to sit in a room in their home and shoot heroin all day, I don't see it is the governments right to say they can't.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: Vic
[So even legalized, LSD would still need to be pretty strictly regulated.

This is I think is the whole problem.
Just because someone misuses something doesn't mean it should be controlled.
What should be done is to punish the people that do misuse something, not everyone because they might misuse something.

If a man kills with a gun you don't ban guns, you punish the man .

The way it is now with things like pain killers for instance, the government is saying, "you can't have these, because you don't know better, but we do, so we will decide for you"

 

[Oceandevi]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton
LSD has permanent effects on your brain.

and? so does life.

 

[Oceandevi]

Originally posted by: CrazyLazy

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: kush23
lsd unlocks alot of mental things.. i've seen it happen first hand. one of my friends did lsd for a while and after this one trip he got schizophrenic

It's not a good idea to "do LSD for a while." It's not to be trifled with. Drugs of that nature should be accorded the highest respect. The idea of using them habitually is worse than absurd, it's pretty damn dangerous. People should know that before taking them.

That's the thing, if doing something even moderately habitually will screw you up big time the government should control in some way. Also, what would the world look like if lsd was legalized and everyone was going around trippin balls?

Most would still show restraint. And the world would be less ignorant and more knowledgeable.

 

[Madwand1]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Once upon a time religion was the only way most people would ever come into contact with. Today we know about a million religions.

The pursuit of spirituality arose before the first religion.

There is only one religion in the end, and all our religions are infant siblings in this view. The mutual hostility among religions only reveal their own lack of complete faith in God, their ignorance of the core of their own religion, and the attendant cult-egoism.

God is also God of the drug-addled and the hopelessly confused, mired in illusion, sin, politics, etc.. Those of us who think they understand some minuscule part of this have an obligation to speak the truth as we see it for the benefit of others, and this includes bluntly stating the essential futility and absurdity of pursuit of transcendence in a pill.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: CrazyLazy

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: kush23
lsd unlocks alot of mental things.. i've seen it happen first hand. one of my friends did lsd for a while and after this one trip he got schizophrenic

It's not a good idea to "do LSD for a while." It's not to be trifled with. Drugs of that nature should be accorded the highest respect. The idea of using them habitually is worse than absurd, it's pretty damn dangerous. People should know that before taking them.

That's the thing, if doing something even moderately habitually will screw you up big time the government should control in some way. Also, what would the world look like if lsd was legalized and everyone was going around trippin balls?

It's not that it will screw you up if you use it "even moderately habitually", it can. My point is partly that it's not the kind of experience to which you are apt to be habituated. It's far too unpredictable and powerful for that. Even so, some people have taken LSD far too much. It landed Sid Barrett in an institution, has resulted in quite few suicides. People can go off the deep end. However, many more people have benefited than have been negatively impacted. More than most drugs it requires taking responsibility for yourself. LSD and similar drugs are not about escapism in the least.