Why do people hate Vista?

[spherrod]

Originally posted by: Scooby Doo
Don't forget the umpteen million crashes it likes to do. I gave up after 10, counting the number of times i've had to hit the reset button today.

what troubleshooting did you do to narrow down the cause?

 

[soonerproud]

Originally posted by: Brazen

Yeah, bsobel is pretty knowledgeable about the Windows OSes, but he does tend to have tunnel vision when it comes to any MS criticism.

Yeah, bsobel is pretty knowledgeable about the Windows OSes, but he does tend to have tunnel vision when it comes to any MS criticism.

No one is claiming Vista is perfect or that some people on this board are not having troubles caused by Vista. What we are saying is the MAJORITY of the issues are not Vista related and are due to hardware incompatibilities. This is not the fault of Microsoft just as it is not the fault of any Linux distro that there are hardware incompatibilities due to no/poor driver support from the manufacturers.

It is also not the fault of Microsoft that software companies failed to provide updates for their products to make them compatible with Vista. The same thing happens in the GNU/Linux world quite frequently when there are major kernel updates or updates to the other major components.

Personally, I have not run into any major software incompatibilities yet (Nero was the only thing I could not run on Vista) nor have I had any hardware issues at all. I researched first before installing Vista (I also ran the release candidates for a time.) to ensure that all my hardware was supported and that drivers were available.

b-b-but, you can't have your own opinion, that's called "bandwagoning" according to this thread. If you want to truly be a creative and original person, you MUST do what Microsoft tells you to!

ROFLMAO!

No one here is against opposing opinions. I guess pointing out factual errors and FUD by some posters is considered by you trying to ridicule opposing opinions.

I got one for you.

If you want to be a truly creative, original and free person then only run software that uses our restrictive license and do what we tell you. That is the attitude of supporters of GPL3 and many Linux users. If you don't believe me, then got to #Ubuntu and just mention Automatix and be prepared to be flamed for not doing it the "Ubuntu" way.

Or even better, go to any Linux forum and just say proprietary and free software can co-exist together.

Yeah, bsobel is pretty knowledgeable about the Windows OSes, but he does tend to have tunnel vision when it comes to any MS criticism.

 

[Scooby Doo]

Well if anyone knows why hard drives stall out and nearly if not completely lock it up, I'm all ears. And this isn't with SATA either, this is with plain jane IDE.

 

[StopSign]

Maybe your hard drive is dying.

 

[soonerproud]

Originally posted by: Scooby Doo
Well if anyone knows why hard drives stall out and nearly if not completely lock it up, I'm all ears. And this isn't with SATA either, this is with plain jane IDE.

The IDE drivers for your motherboard are probably not operating correctly for Vista. As has been stated many times in this thread, most of these issues are a result of crappy or no drivers from the manufacturers.

Other causes could be a bad power supply or the drive is faulty and needs replacing. Your problem is most definitely a driver or hardware issue.

 

[spherrod]

Originally posted by: soonerproud
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Scooby Doo
Well if anyone knows why hard drives stall out and nearly if not completely lock it up, I'm all ears. And this isn't with SATA either, this is with plain jane IDE.</end quote></div>

The IDE drivers for your motherboard are probably not operating correctly for Vista. As has been stated many times in this thread, most of these issues are a result of crappy or no drivers from the manufacturers.

Other causes could be a bad power supply or the drive is faulty and needs replacing. Your problem is most definitely a driver or hardware issue.

:thumbsup:

 

[Scooby Doo]

Alright if someone could point me to where the ASUS P5B Deluxe's pci-ide drivers are located, I'd be happy. The only thing I found at asus's site was the Jmicron sata drivers and after installing those caused vista go to into a reboot loop, which basically required a reinstall (repairing didn't fix it).

Dumb question, would replacing the IDE hard drive with a SATA one resolve this problem or just compound it?

 

[soonerproud]

Originally posted by: Scooby Doo
Alright if someone could point me to where the ASUS P5B Deluxe's pci-ide drivers are located, I'd be happy. The only thing I found at asus's site was the Jmicron sata drivers and after installing those caused vista go to into a reboot loop, which basically required a reinstall (repairing didn't fix it).

Dumb question, would replacing the IDE hard drive with a SATA one resolve this problem or just compound it?

What is the chipset of your motherboard? I had to go directly to Nvidia to get my chipset drivers since DFI has not posted Vista drivers for my Nforce4 SLI motherboard. (DFI Infinity SLI)

 

[Scooby Doo]

According to the manual:
Intel P965/ICH8R with intel fast memory access tech.

 

[Seeruk]

Originally posted by: Scooby Doo
According to the manual:
Intel P965/ICH8R with intel fast memory access tech.

Then Intel's site is where you should be looking

Generally speaking MB manufacturers are pretty darn lazy with providing chipset drivers etc. Some indeed are terrible ... they have only the drivers that where around when the board was first manufactured.... even if that was 2 or 3 years ago!

Always go to the chipset's manufacturer.... nvidia, via, intel etc to get the latest and greatest drivers. That goes for all hardware, graphics cards being another good example!

 

[Slammy1]

Originally posted by: Scooby Doo
According to the manual:
Intel P965/ICH8R with intel fast memory access tech.

I do feel for you Sccoby as my first foray into XP was on an Asus board. Asus, while producing quality components, doesn't support them like they should (in my opinion). The system made it through the instabilities after a time, it was very frustrating when it happened. I spent many, many hours trying to troubleshoot it and eventually came to the realization I'd need to wait out driver updates. Sure enough, I forget the Catalyst version that stopped my issue but I went from buggy to rock stable.

Anyways, I did talk with Asus on the phone at one point and they complained that other mfrs do not test against their components. It brings up an interesting point of exactly who is responsible to ensure their product runs in a given configuration. In a world of rapidly changing technology it seems conflicts are inevitable. Sometimes it impresses me that things work as well as they do, though I think the alternative is even more problematic. in terms of stifled development.

 

[bsobel]

Originally posted by: Slammy1
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: bsobel
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Slammy1
I went to BB to pick up one of their Acer laptop clearance deals and the CSR had a lot of horror stories about Vista. I'm not sure why he'd say all the things he did, I know some of it was BS. From the beginning, Vista will not allow you to install MS Office unless it's the most recent version. So my copy of Office 2003 will not work on Vista. OpenOffice will not install either, because it is open source and Vista sees that as illegal software (that's a big percent of the programs/apps I run...). All of the compressed songs I created myself from my own CDs will not work on Vista, I'd need to recompress them using the original CDs (not a problem, but I have ca 400 CDs). Microsoft will completely withdraw support for XP in 2 years. He said they get a lot of Vista laptop returns.

EDIT: Almost forgot. He said Vista will prevent me from installing any other OS on the laptop, so no downgrade to XP or Linux.</end quote></div>

It's rare to see so much complete BS in a single post. Every single item you stated in your post is incorrect ranging from 'wrong' to 'straight up lie'

Bill
</end quote></div>

Actually, if you read my post I was saying what the BB CSR said about Vista. I actually went to a different BB and bought the laptop the next night (Vista and all) and, reported in a subsequent post, how it runs fine no problems. Not that a prebuilt laptop really meaningful, after all it's designed and tested to Vista, I'd be more interested in what the system builders think about unforeseen issues on otherwise compatible and clean systems.

It's also interesting how my posts get misrepresented here, even from Elite members, I can see why I don't post much on A-Tech anymore.

Sorry, I got that the BB told you that, my comments where directed at him, not you.

 

[bsobel]

Yeah, bsobel is pretty knowledgeable about the Windows OSes, but he does tend to have tunnel vision when it comes to any MS criticism.

Brazen, there wasnt a single point that was made in the post (by the BB guy) that had any truth to it none, zero, nadda, zilch. Every statement was incorrect. That is not criticism, thats just being wrong. I'd correct the same statements about Linux or Mac as well.

 

[Raduque]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Scooby Doo
According to the manual:
Intel P965/ICH8R with intel fast memory access tech.</end quote></div>

I'm running this same chipset with no problems in Vista Home Prem (No IDE drives except my DVDRW, though), so I'm willing to say the drivers are fine. I bet it's your hardware.

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: bsobel
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Yeah, bsobel is pretty knowledgeable about the Windows OSes, but he does tend to have tunnel vision when it comes to any MS criticism. </end quote></div>

Brazen, there wasnt a single point that was made in the post (by the BB guy) that had any truth to it none, zero, nadda, zilch. Every statement was incorrect. That is not criticism, thats just being wrong. I'd correct the same statements about Linux or Mac as well.</end quote></div>

The issue at hand here, is that you should have said something like "every comment made by that bb sales guy was completely incorrect", rather then making it seem like Slammy said them.


Edit: damned quote tags.

Originally posted by: bsobel

The issue at hand here, is that you should have said something like "every comment made by that bb sales guy was completely incorrect", rather then making it seem like Slammy said them.

Yeo, agreed (see ^)

Hah, that statement in the ()s wasn't there a minute ago! =P

 

[bsobel]

The issue at hand here, is that you should have said something like "every comment made by that bb sales guy was completely incorrect", rather then making it seem like Slammy said them.

Yeo, agreed (see ^)

 

[Scooby Doo]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Raduque
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Scooby Doo
According to the manual:
Intel P965/ICH8R with intel fast memory access tech.</end quote></div>

I'm running this same chipset with no problems in Vista Home Prem (No IDE drives except my DVDRW, though), so I'm willing to say the drivers are fine. I bet it's your hardware.

</end quote></div>

Well I'm running an IDE and a dvdrw on the same ide cable.. Bad I know, but it'll have to do for now. When I remove the dvdrw, vista would refuse to boot.

Edit: Quotes are broken

 

[foolfromhell]

Vista is fine, but my friend stuck in his camera, Vista downloaded the driver off the camera, and, BOOM! Instant BSoD!
Drivers suck for Vista. For some stupid reason, many apps think Vista is XP and they load XP drivers...
Other than drivers, Vista is awesome.

 

[foolfromhell]

Originally posted by: SoundTheSurrender
600 different versions.
Continued hard drive thrashing after the OS screen is started up with 2gb of ram.
Works like crap on laptops.
Forced updates.
Same old legacy NTFS file system.
Sleep doesn't work on 2 laptops I tried it on.
Cancel or Allow for everything.
It was basically a runaway project, it went over the budget and was delayed many times.

#1 You may not notice it, but OSX has different versions too. They are as follow: Macbook. Macbook Pro, iMac, MacPro, and Mac Mini. There are features on each one that are not available on others. Apple just doesnt advertise it.
XP also has many versions. Home, Professional, Enterprise, and Mediacenter. 4 versions of XP. 4 versions of Vista, 5 versions of OSX. Literally 600 versions of Linux. # of versions is not a problem.

#2 Turn off superfetch and pagefile if you have 2gb RAM...

#3 Maybe your laptop is crap? There are no better alternatives. Apple charges you an extra $50/ $100 for anything...

#4 Forced updates? YOU CAN TURN THEM OFF. Plus, forced updates are necessary. What about joe shmoe who doesnt want updates and then gets a virus? Its proven that OSX is more vulnerable than Windows. Nobody wants to hack it. plain and simple. If the alternatives suck, the choice is obvious.

#5 NTFS has nothing wrong with it. Everything can be indexed for simpler use.

#6 Sleep is a desktop feature... Hibernate is a laptop feature. Sleep saves work to RAM. Hibernate saves work to the HDD. Only idiots try to make their laptops sleep...

#7 Bought into the Apple propaganda, eh? I only had to "Cancel or Allow" on programs that were newly installed. Never had to "Cancel or Allow" again for that program. Nobody installs 100 programs a day...

#8 OSX has remained the same since 2001. It needs a refresher too. XP was getting old and Vista is superior in every way...

 

[foolfromhell]

Originally posted by: Hyperblaze
As mentioned above, the UAC, although that can be disabled.

There is also DRM.

Other then that, don't really care much about the operating system.

I will say however, that their tab browsing feature is pretty damn cool.

I'm pretty much back to my non-caring mood. Use whatever fits your requirements and fvck the rest.

DRM? The DRM is ESSENTIAL. HDCP-enabled movies wont even RUN AT FULL RES without the DRM. When Apple finally incorporates Blu-Ray or HD-DVD to their macs, they wont have nearly as large an uproar... Linux may never get HDCP because it needs licensing...
The DRM wont affect you if you dont run HDCP movies. If you do run HDCP movies, the movi wont run without the "evil" DRM.
MS had no say in incorporating the DRM. Its all the MPAA.

If you are talking about WGA Drm, MS has to try to protect its assets. They cant have blatant piracy!

 

[bsobel]

#6 Sleep is a desktop feature... Hibernate is a laptop feature. Sleep saves work to RAM. Hibernate saves work to the HDD. Only idiots try to make their laptops sleep...

Actually that is incorrect, suspend and hibernate have been merged into a single sleep mode in Vista. It *should* be working the same on both desktops/laptops. When it doesnt work it's bios or drivers, but it can be annoying as heck to track down the root cause.

 

[Brazen]

Originally posted by: bsobel
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Yeah, bsobel is pretty knowledgeable about the Windows OSes, but he does tend to have tunnel vision when it comes to any MS criticism. </end quote></div>

Brazen, there wasnt a single point that was made in the post (by the BB guy) that had any truth to it none, zero, nadda, zilch. Every statement was incorrect. That is not criticism, thats just being wrong. I'd correct the same statements about Linux or Mac as well.

I just meant that it seemed you jumped on Slammy1 for his post. Like you saw MS criticism and just started firing shots in the air. Of course everything that BB guy said was pretty cut and dry wrong and I hope you did not take my comment as being harsh because it was really meant very lightly.

 

[bsobel]

I just meant that it seemed you jumped on Slammy1 for his post. Like you saw MS criticism and just started firing shots in the air. Of course everything that BB guy said was pretty cut and dry wrong and I hope you did not take my comment as being harsh because it was really meant very lightly.

Well, for what it's worth I didnt' mean to sound like I was jumping on Slammy vs the guy who lied to him. I'm sometimes guilty of replying to fast, so I know what my brain was thinking, but my fingers dont always get the point across I see how you (and some others took it) and you were right, I apologized to Slammy just to make sure he knew my intent. And no, I didnt take it as harsh, in fact I apreciated it so feel free to call me out anytime I do something stupid like that

Best,
Bill

 

[StopSign]

Originally posted by: foolfromhell
#2 Turn off superfetch and pagefile if you have 2gb RAM...

Why would you ever turn off Superfetch? The more memory you have, the more efficient Superfetch gets.

Also, I don't see why you would want to turn off the page file...

 

[Scooby Doo]

Well I installed the Intel chipset drivers from intel.com. #2 from this page: Inf Drivers

But no luck, it still grinds pretty bad. Its kinda of random, but I can reproduce it in Sims during a second run of the game. Simply taking a screenshot causes the sound to studder then stop as the drive grinds badly. After about a minute then things slowly return to normal.

Edit: ok that works SOME of the time... other it just sits there with a black screen and disk light is constantly on. Nothing responds just the reset button.

A bit more information...
Reliablity and Performance is reporting the Avg. Disk queue length is 1. The disk may be at its max. transfer capacity due to throughput and disk seeks.

Double Edit: Ok if you simply go away and do something for several minutes. Hopefully when you get back it'll return to normal. Not exactly my idea of fun

 

[soonerproud]

Originally posted by: Scooby Doo
Well I installed the Intel chipset drivers from intel.com. #2 from this page: Inf Drivers

But no luck, it still grinds pretty bad. Its kinda of random, but I can reproduce it in Sims during a second run of the game. Simply taking a screenshot causes the sound to studder then stop as the drive grinds badly. After about a minute then things slowly return to normal.

Edit: ok that works SOME of the time... other it just sits there with a black screen and disk light is constantly on. Nothing responds just the reset button.

A bit more information...
Reliablity and Performance is reporting the Avg. Disk queue length is 1. The disk may be at its max. transfer capacity due to throughput and disk seeks.

Double Edit: Ok if you simply go away and do something for several minutes. Hopefully when you get back it'll return to normal. Not exactly my idea of fun

From what you are describing, the disk is on the verge of failure. When a disk grinds like that it is just palin worn out and time to replace it.